coil over front suspension on 2nd gen.?
01-29-2004, 02:41 PM
#41
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Ah, my calculations were based on different triangle. My triangle had the 30 where your 60 is and vice versa so an increase in A-arm length would result in less lift than yours. I would have posted a diagram like yours, but I'm at work and don't have access to my website host. Regardless, I suppose it's possible to gain 4" with a tbar crank, but is it wise?
Last edited by Robinhood150; 01-29-2004 at 02:43 PM.
01-29-2004, 03:13 PM
#42
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Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I posted that some lift most come from it, but I had a hard time seeing it. Someone posted around 5 inches and that is what I was asking about since that went against anything that those people had mentioned to me in correspondence or on boards.
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
01-29-2004, 03:29 PM
#43
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Originally posted by Flygtenstein
Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I posted that some lift most come from it, but I had a hard time seeing it. Someone posted around 5 inches and that is what I was asking about since that went against anything that those people had mentioned to me in correspondence or on boards.
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I posted that some lift most come from it, but I had a hard time seeing it. Someone posted around 5 inches and that is what I was asking about since that went against anything that those people had mentioned to me in correspondence or on boards.
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
If all you wheel in is rocks, then a person should spend the money on a solid axel swap. If you want the best IFS you can get, spend the money on a long travel kit.
01-29-2004, 03:40 PM
#44
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Originally posted by Flygtenstein
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
The fact is the lifts do not give much lift and are more travel kits than lift kits, or so I would say.
Personally, I am still skeptical that the cost involved versus the net gains for someone who is wheeling on rocks.
I figure the kit may give 1.5" of lift from the length of the A-arms alone, plus you can crank the tbars maybe...2"?...so that'll give 3.5". But, I don't know how the CVs will like it cranked that much. With the longer A-arms/axles I suspect you can crank them more than normal.
Last edited by Robinhood150; 01-29-2004 at 04:07 PM.
01-29-2004, 04:39 PM
#45
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If someone were just buying parts, one of those kits would cost the same as a swap.
If you are paying someone else to install it, then you could get all the swap parts, buy a welder, pay for the class and do the swap yourself.
The best IFS you can get, if you wheel it, is the kind that falls off the truck without grinding.
If you are paying someone else to install it, then you could get all the swap parts, buy a welder, pay for the class and do the swap yourself.
The best IFS you can get, if you wheel it, is the kind that falls off the truck without grinding.
01-29-2004, 04:51 PM
#46
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Originally posted by Flygtenstein
The best IFS you can get, if you wheel it, is the kind that falls off the truck without grinding.
The best IFS you can get, if you wheel it, is the kind that falls off the truck without grinding.
01-29-2004, 07:15 PM
#47
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well, guys here is what Scott at rockstomper.com said that made me give up on IFS in the long run:
I put years into IFS. Thousands of dollars. It's fun stuff... but 44's aren't what broke it. For those who haven't been watching since, oh... 1994ish (when I started building IFS) through 2002 (when I finally gave up and started parting my last IFS truck)... I built the following:
Custom A-arms
Custom centersection
Custom halfshafts (repeatedly)
Custom steering
Custom skidplate
Custom frame mounts
Custom diff mounts
Custom frame bracing
Custom CV's.
This was all to keep it alive with 36's, a *stock* Ford 5.0, and 123:1 crawl.
I finally found the weak links:
Steering--Suspension travel over 12" at stock track width, or over 14" at widened (don't bother going wider than 2" per side wider) track width, will crumple up the steering. My own superburly steering held up (mostly) but didn't fit without thousands of dollars of further modification to the vehicle.
Steering mounting bolts--idler and steering box, will break grade 8 bolts. Good luck.
Upper A-arm mounts--rip off the frame. Bracing them helps, but only temporarily. Sufficient flight time will tear them off.
Torsion bar sockets--braceable with a little tube bit. Rear sockets aren't braceable--the porkchop arm will eventually collapse. If it doesn't, the bolts will pull through the frame mount. Whee!
Halfshafts--just no good way. Did the Porsche 930 thing for a while, works on the inners... no fix for the outers. Maybe Bobby Long can fix it, but I was 50/50 on breaking joint guts (cages) and outer stub shafts. 300M CV's might fix it... but I don't have the coin to throw at it.
In my not-so-humble opinion, I think the only way to make IFS work, and work well, is with portal hubs, huge-dollar CV's (Porsche 930's or bigger), limited travel on driven IFS (don't tell me about desert-race trucks with feet of driven-travel independent suspensions unless you're willing to throw the kind of money at it that they do--I already know about what they're running, and there's a reason I don't have those part$$$), and probably custom frames.
Custom A-arms
Custom centersection
Custom halfshafts (repeatedly)
Custom steering
Custom skidplate
Custom frame mounts
Custom diff mounts
Custom frame bracing
Custom CV's.
This was all to keep it alive with 36's, a *stock* Ford 5.0, and 123:1 crawl.
I finally found the weak links:
Steering--Suspension travel over 12" at stock track width, or over 14" at widened (don't bother going wider than 2" per side wider) track width, will crumple up the steering. My own superburly steering held up (mostly) but didn't fit without thousands of dollars of further modification to the vehicle.
Steering mounting bolts--idler and steering box, will break grade 8 bolts. Good luck.
Upper A-arm mounts--rip off the frame. Bracing them helps, but only temporarily. Sufficient flight time will tear them off.
Torsion bar sockets--braceable with a little tube bit. Rear sockets aren't braceable--the porkchop arm will eventually collapse. If it doesn't, the bolts will pull through the frame mount. Whee!
Halfshafts--just no good way. Did the Porsche 930 thing for a while, works on the inners... no fix for the outers. Maybe Bobby Long can fix it, but I was 50/50 on breaking joint guts (cages) and outer stub shafts. 300M CV's might fix it... but I don't have the coin to throw at it.
In my not-so-humble opinion, I think the only way to make IFS work, and work well, is with portal hubs, huge-dollar CV's (Porsche 930's or bigger), limited travel on driven IFS (don't tell me about desert-race trucks with feet of driven-travel independent suspensions unless you're willing to throw the kind of money at it that they do--I already know about what they're running, and there's a reason I don't have those part$$$), and probably custom frames.
02-10-2004, 07:54 AM
#48
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Changing 2nd gen to coil over picture
I have found a picture of a kit that Downey is supposed to be working on. This may be the "Major Upgrade Coming" that it in Downey's ads in many 4X4 magazines. This picture is from last May and I might have gotten it from 4x4 wire. I would love to have one of these style kits. I am not into rock crawling at all but drive on rough gravel roads every day. This type of kit would be perfect for me. We'll see if it is cheaper than Chaos, Camburg, and the others. I have a bigger version of this picture if anyone wants it, and a picture of just the bottom arm.
02-10-2004, 08:15 AM
#50
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that kit takes more welding than an SAS and will cost you a lot more too.
the kit uses porche inner cv's $$$$
from that pic, downey still hasnt solved any steering issues, and they are still using crappy balljoints
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