Guns... For or against?
07-21-2004, 12:51 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guns... For or against?
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms. 
That says it all. I'm an intelligent, informed, and trained individual, who regularly enjoys shooting for recreation, competition, self-improvement, and self-defense. I'd like a show of hands regarding who's for and against weapons, be they long guns or handguns, and specific reasons citing either case. I'm open to all opinions, and the best way to understand people is to hear their sides! Here's to a hearty, and FRIENDLY discussion on one of our Constitutional rights!
That says it all. I'm an intelligent, informed, and trained individual, who regularly enjoys shooting for recreation, competition, self-improvement, and self-defense. I'd like a show of hands regarding who's for and against weapons, be they long guns or handguns, and specific reasons citing either case. I'm open to all opinions, and the best way to understand people is to hear their sides! Here's to a hearty, and FRIENDLY discussion on one of our Constitutional rights!
07-21-2004, 01:10 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would love to participate, but you're opening a can of worms here.... This issue has been discusses at least a million times already and never ended good. 
- Andrey
- Andrey
07-21-2004, 01:59 PM
#6
Registered User
For, of course.
The reason I strongly believe that "gun talk" usually ends up to be an ugly argument is b/c it is intertwined with:
a) politics (dems typically against, reps typically in favor)
b) emotions (johnny next door blew his sister's head off)
c) propaganda (i.e. distortion of the facts)
with regards to the last point (c), there are contradicting "studies" by both sides of the coin, and thus as always, you gotta read both sides and then look at real world examples of banning or allowing gun ownership is good for the public good.
so here's my thoughts: gun ownership is a right and a responsibility, just like owning a car. that privilege can be abused not b/c its a gun, but b/c its abused by people. a drunk can mow down a street full of people just like a deranged man can mow down the same street of people w/ a gun. politcally, its an "easy" issue to rally support against gun ownership b/c those against it typically do not find a "utility" in owning a gun (i.e. soccer moms). of course, these same soccer moms would be aghast if their local police force didn't respond within 10 seconds to a burglary call and came armed only with tickle feathers.
while i dont want to look for numbers right now, two countries in recent history, the UK and Australia enacted a near-total ban on private gun ownership and the end result was higher crime and murder rates. similiarly, those states in the US with the most toughest gun laws (for hte most part) have the highest crime rates related to gun violence. conversely, those states with the lowest barriers to private gun ownership and CCW laws are the states w/ the lowest crime rates. to analogize, which store would you rob: the gun store where every employee has a side arm on a holster? or the mom-n-pop neighborhood store owned by the Brady Bill-supporting couple?
though there's plenty of terrible tragedies of children playing with and killing each other w/ unlocked guns, teen shootings, etc, this all goes back to responsible gun ownership. sure, there are many cases where the kids knew where the key was, or knew how to get grandpa's gun, etc, but again, responsible gun owners keep their sh#t locked up nice and tight. Moreover, compare the deaths of children who consume household poisons to firearms accidents (NOT including suicide).
with regards to "assault" weapons, i was NOT in favor of civilian ownership (when i was a Dem voting person), but after the LA Riots, you bet your arse I do now. my parents three stores that they once owned were burned down. we were part owners of a third store, so yes, there was financial loss. (rant mode on) the cops didnt do a single damn thing. they just cordoned off the city around the areas they deemed "tactically" sound. funny, korean-american store owners who did stay and protect their stores w/ shotguns and pistols did juuuust fine. of course later, they were pulled out and of course, their stores got looted. and even more tragic, the same "community leaders" from the neighborhoods that were burnt down, pressed their leaders to enact laws prohibiting certain types of stores (liquor stores) from being rebuilt. the popular feeling of course was that the liquor stores caused the community members to be "held down".
anyways, back to "evil gun" ownership: my dad's friends never thought that another riot like the 60's LA riots would ever happen again. well, i'm not falling for that one and should my home or business be under threat like the LA riots, you bet i'll protect it w/ my unpolitically correct assault rifles.
Bob
The reason I strongly believe that "gun talk" usually ends up to be an ugly argument is b/c it is intertwined with:
a) politics (dems typically against, reps typically in favor)
b) emotions (johnny next door blew his sister's head off)
c) propaganda (i.e. distortion of the facts)
with regards to the last point (c), there are contradicting "studies" by both sides of the coin, and thus as always, you gotta read both sides and then look at real world examples of banning or allowing gun ownership is good for the public good.
so here's my thoughts: gun ownership is a right and a responsibility, just like owning a car. that privilege can be abused not b/c its a gun, but b/c its abused by people. a drunk can mow down a street full of people just like a deranged man can mow down the same street of people w/ a gun. politcally, its an "easy" issue to rally support against gun ownership b/c those against it typically do not find a "utility" in owning a gun (i.e. soccer moms). of course, these same soccer moms would be aghast if their local police force didn't respond within 10 seconds to a burglary call and came armed only with tickle feathers.
while i dont want to look for numbers right now, two countries in recent history, the UK and Australia enacted a near-total ban on private gun ownership and the end result was higher crime and murder rates. similiarly, those states in the US with the most toughest gun laws (for hte most part) have the highest crime rates related to gun violence. conversely, those states with the lowest barriers to private gun ownership and CCW laws are the states w/ the lowest crime rates. to analogize, which store would you rob: the gun store where every employee has a side arm on a holster? or the mom-n-pop neighborhood store owned by the Brady Bill-supporting couple?
though there's plenty of terrible tragedies of children playing with and killing each other w/ unlocked guns, teen shootings, etc, this all goes back to responsible gun ownership. sure, there are many cases where the kids knew where the key was, or knew how to get grandpa's gun, etc, but again, responsible gun owners keep their sh#t locked up nice and tight. Moreover, compare the deaths of children who consume household poisons to firearms accidents (NOT including suicide).
with regards to "assault" weapons, i was NOT in favor of civilian ownership (when i was a Dem voting person), but after the LA Riots, you bet your arse I do now. my parents three stores that they once owned were burned down. we were part owners of a third store, so yes, there was financial loss. (rant mode on) the cops didnt do a single damn thing. they just cordoned off the city around the areas they deemed "tactically" sound. funny, korean-american store owners who did stay and protect their stores w/ shotguns and pistols did juuuust fine. of course later, they were pulled out and of course, their stores got looted. and even more tragic, the same "community leaders" from the neighborhoods that were burnt down, pressed their leaders to enact laws prohibiting certain types of stores (liquor stores) from being rebuilt. the popular feeling of course was that the liquor stores caused the community members to be "held down".
anyways, back to "evil gun" ownership: my dad's friends never thought that another riot like the 60's LA riots would ever happen again. well, i'm not falling for that one and should my home or business be under threat like the LA riots, you bet i'll protect it w/ my unpolitically correct assault rifles.
Bob
07-21-2004, 01:59 PM
#7
Guns
I personally own several guns, all hunting rifles, but none are on the premises of my home currently. They have all been "borrowed" by various family members. I've never owned a handgun, shot many though, but I have been strongly considering one recently to carry with me in the 4Runner. I saw several nice guns at Tellico from some of the guys there. A definite future mod for the 4Runner! 
Trending Topics
07-21-2004, 02:04 PM
#9
Contributing Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Littleton,CO
Posts: 10,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think responsible citizens should have the right to bear arms,nuff said.
Armor piercing ammo? If deer start wearing Kevlar vests then I'd give them a consideration.
Armor piercing ammo? If deer start wearing Kevlar vests then I'd give them a consideration.
07-21-2004, 02:31 PM
#10
Contributing Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NM
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for
My wife has the Dirty Harry special, Smith and Wesson 44 Mag with a 8 3/8" barrel, and she knows how to shoot it. In fact, when we first met, she was shooting better than me. After shooting my 30-06 rifle for a while, and my 9mm, I have to admit, I love to shoot her gun more. And the 44 Mag is great for protection against small rodents and the occassional break in criminal.
07-21-2004, 03:49 PM
#11
Contributing Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wandering around Phoenix
Posts: 6,033
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrey
I would love to participate, but you're opening a can of worms here.... This issue has been discusses at least a million times already and never ended good.
- Andrey
- Andrey
I'm Pro guns.
07-21-2004, 04:09 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am pro guns, unfortunately I live in California.
I am sure over the weekend there were more deaths involving DUI than "assault weapons".
Muder rates in San Francisco this year is off the chart.
Lastly , its not the guns that kill people , its the damm bullets.
Bob,
I too own several businesses, I am the first line of deterent.
I am sure over the weekend there were more deaths involving DUI than "assault weapons".
Muder rates in San Francisco this year is off the chart.
Lastly , its not the guns that kill people , its the damm bullets.
Bob,
I too own several businesses, I am the first line of deterent.
07-21-2004, 04:35 PM
#14
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4! I believe as Americans living in our FREE country we should be able to carry weapons in a mature manor. Not just to show were tough guys. I own a small handgun that I do not carry on me. I take it up now and then for praticing but thats it. Where I fall into anti gunning laws is when you are a habitual domestic violence offender. You do not need a weapon. You need to have it taken away from you. I bet that will raise some eye brows. But thats my opinion. Also in my opinion to own a weapon you need to be a permanent resident of the USA and have lived here for so many years. I think they need to be stricter on laws when punishing those that commit crimes with guns. If a gun is involved kick some a$$. But dont punish everyone for the stupid few out there.
07-21-2004, 04:49 PM
#15
Contributing Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am totally for responsible, trained, of-age people owning guns in this world as it is. In a sin free world I would be happy without them - no point then - well except for recreation
07-21-2004, 04:58 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: VANCOUVER WA
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i own several guns, took hunter's safety & all that stuff,
i think the reason guns get such a bad name is because of
the stupidity of people who are not educated about them.
go to a gun show sometime & look at all the inbreds who are buying guns.
i went to a show a couple of years ago & the local news station was there.
they interviewed the dumbest people & asked them there side of gun control.
WHAT HAS 800 EYES & 10 TEETH ?
the local gun show
i think the reason guns get such a bad name is because of
the stupidity of people who are not educated about them.
go to a gun show sometime & look at all the inbreds who are buying guns.
i went to a show a couple of years ago & the local news station was there.
they interviewed the dumbest people & asked them there side of gun control.
WHAT HAS 800 EYES & 10 TEETH ?
the local gun show
07-21-2004, 05:29 PM
#17
Contributing Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NM
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigBadBlue
4! I believe as Americans living in our FREE country we should be able to carry weapons in a mature manor. Not just to show were tough guys. I own a small handgun that I do not carry on me. I take it up now and then for praticing but thats it. Where I fall into anti gunning laws is when you are a habitual domestic violence offender. You do not need a weapon. You need to have it taken away from you. I bet that will raise some eye brows. But thats my opinion. Also in my opinion to own a weapon you need to be a permanent resident of the USA and have lived here for so many years. I think they need to be stricter on laws when punishing those that commit crimes with guns. If a gun is involved kick some a$$. But dont punish everyone for the stupid few out there.
Its the people that USE guns to kill people, much like people can use a car to kill people. The only difference there, is a gun is much easier to use and conceal.
07-21-2004, 05:48 PM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guns don't kill people... people kill people. I don't see people outlawing cars... or alcohol. It's MUCH easier for someone to get their hands on either two. Don't even get me started on smoking...
Last edited by WolfpackTLC; 07-21-2004 at 05:51 PM.
07-21-2004, 05:51 PM
#19
Pics
Originally Posted by WolfpackTLC
Guns don't kill people... people kill people. I don't see people outlawing cars... or alcohol. It's MUCH easier for someone to get their hands on either two.
07-21-2004, 05:55 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Old Line State
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob, great post. I agree with you for the most part and I stand behind our Second Amendment rights. I recently read that more people were killed by the flu last year in this country than by guns.
