okie81

Been that route before, if this is any help I think 1 lambda x 14.7 = 14.7 AFR.

So you're about 15.8 AFR?

Greg_Canada

BTW that picture of the tube, is the front diff breather.

skrassow

Well currently Im not sure I have a vacuum leak. Im sitting right at 20in hg at idle. I probably need to stop playing with it for a while. The more I think about it the more I think that check valve could be the root of all this. So Ill let it sit until I get the new valve in. If its getting boost in that line, putting positive pressure to the TB then that could lean it out I believe.

After a while, yes it eventually warmed up to that. But Im seeing high 16 even low 17 at times. I still dont understand the PLX software though. I tried the data logger for a bit and it showed 10AFR and .68 lambda. So I have no clue what is going on there

Thanks! At least one mystery is solved!

Texas_Ace

Well first you need to work out that AFR gauge. You need to make sure it is working right.

In my case a leak by the sensor caused ALL my problems.

skrassow

I decided to start it back up and check all the gauges again. Well what do ya know...pretty damned close to 14.7...bumps around +/- .2 or so, but the graph shows an average pretty darn close. Its hard to get exact #'s because the datalogger software is still giving me fits. But open loop seems to drop around 12ish (dumb thing wont let me look at AFR and fuel state together!) Two things have changed. First, I took apart some of the trim panels concealing one of the 02 sens calibrator. I suppose its possible the way I have it routed that the boost line going to that computer was constricted causing it to get bad information. garbage in, garbage out. The second was that I hooked into the AIC/Timing controller to pull the fuel maps off it to look at them . I did NOT download anything to the PC. Just looked at what was on it. the only other thing I can think of is that the ECU was going through a relearning phase. How long can it take for it to adjust itself? It still has a bit of HGLR ping to it. But not NEARLY what it was. and there is a LOT more power than before. It actually surprised me and the back end got a bit squirrely on me going around a corner. It has more than enough power to break loose the big meats in the back! (yeah no way it would do that before the install!)

So how long would the ECU take to adjust to these changes?

Texas_Ace

The ECU can take a good amount of time to re-learn. About 100 miles usually. But usually you just have less power while it is learning,

The boost line being crimped could very well cause the problems.

Sounds like you need some tuning. Your AFR's are fine, a little moving around is normal.

Now get the AFR's under load into range and you are set.

First figure out how to use all the software, then start tuning.

skrassow

TA, I didnt realize the ECU took that long to relearn. So I am more confident that that and the trim panel are the cause of my strange happenings. I will have to figure out that panel now (sucks, cause Ive got the interior all back together now)

The PLX software is driving me nuts! It actually locked up twice on me now. Without that I am dead in the water! Well as far as tuning myself goes. So if that doesnt work I guess Ill have to find a shop to tune it out the rest of the way. Or look into a different datalogger...grrr.

Im struggling to understand how load effects the AFR. Seems like AFR at 2krpm would be the same regardless of load? After all the 02 sens would have no idea that there is a load.

Texas_Ace

AFR's can/will change with load until the tuning/ECU has learned. But you are more worried about open loop style load.

skrassow

Does the record function in the R4 software actually work? I tried it on mine and it shows that I never got into boost, and the injector never fired Im sure there are no leaks in the line, as the boost gauge is downstream from the AIC/T and it is still showing 20in hg at idle and a max psi of about 6. AFR still looks good at idle and driving. The datalogger still isnt working correctly for some reason (it basically is flatlined, none of the information changes. It shows a 10.0/1AFR perfectly flat through about 10min of recording...while the gague shows around 14.7). The boost gauge and the AFR gauge seem to tell me that R4's recorder is not working. I did adjust the tables a bit and manage to smooth out some of the ping, so Im sure the AIC is doing SOMETHING. I just have no way to really verify much right now. Other than good AFR as much as I can see on the gauge, and less ping.

So did anyone else have luck with recording in the R4 software?

Texas_Ace

Are you talking about the URD software or the PLX stuff?

The URD software is a little hard to figrure out fromt eh get go but it works pretty well.

There is a way to see the real time readings in there someplace, look at that and see what it says while driving.

You can also have the 7th injector fire with the test option, start the car, and try firing that injector, it should make it run real rich and maybe die. Then try the same thing witht he timing, it should make it run rough until you stop testing it.

If that works and the real time readings are all ok then move on to tuning.

You can call URD, they can help you get that working.

skrassow

Talking about the URD software(split second R4). There is a record button on the main page. But it doesnt seem to be working properly. I have not seen the test function you mentioned.

Texas_Ace

The record should work fine, you have to go to the top menu and select playback option (soemthing like that, been awhile since i used it). Then you can view the recorded runs.

In one of the menus it should have a test option of some sort, click on all the menus and look though them, that is how i learned it, just play with it.

skrassow

OK, I found the test option. It appears to be doing nothing. I tested all the outputs and nothing happened with any of them The connections all look good, there doesnt appear to be any fuel leaks near the injector. I know the unit is getting powered, otherwise it would not connect to it and read any data. It appears to have an accurate RPM reading and vac/boost reading. Somethin funny going on here!

Texas_Ace

So with the engine running no matter what you do with the outputs nothing changes with the idle or AFR's? That is odd.

With the injector you should make it run real rich and even kill the engine depending on how much you turn it on.

And timing should make it run bad or kill it if you take too much out.

Need to figure out what is going on with those. The injector is hooked up corretly right? Has fuel pressure? can you hear it click if you try yo test it with the engine off?

skrassow

OK, here is what it is doing. In the test window the top half shows output A, B and C, with three switches for each; on, off, and normal. Then the bottom also has three windows. One for PWM output (what is this?), one for injector A and one for injector B. In these you can set values for Inj A and B. Something like 0 - 25.5. If I set the values all the way up on Inj B and hit set...the engine will die. With inj A all the way up it will run rough and died once. But the top half of the window, if I hit the test switch, nothing seems to happen. So I guess I am confused as to what does what? For this setup, Map A is Timing and B is fuel, so do I assume that Injector A means timing, and B is the injector itself?

With the engine off in ANY test mode I do not hear any clicking. I double checked the connections and everything seems good. The injector is only two wires so Im not sure how I really could goof that up. The rest check against teh diagram and are solid connections.

skrassow

How would I check for fuel pressure at the injector?

Texas_Ace

Ok, then the URD box is working. I remeber having problem figureing out that test window myself. You are correct, Injector A is timing, and injector B is the 7th injector.

It is doing just what it should do so they ARE working.

Try looking at the real time moniter to see what it reads from all the inputs. If it looks good then i would say that everything is hooked up fine and working. Just need to do some tuning.

Have you figured out the PLX data logging yet? If not that that is your next step.

I started my tuning by clearing the whole B map for the injector as whatever was on it when i got it was WAY off. So i started from scratch and tuned it pretty nice for a street tune. But i also have some tuning experiance.

In your case what you want is for anytime you go into open loop for the AFR's to be right at 11.8 or as close to it as possible through the whole RPM band.

Basically add and subtract fuel at differnt point to get a consistant 11.8 AFR. Speedy has a real good write up i think on tuning. Read that.

skrassow

Yeah that finally convinced me that the box is working. Although I dont hear this clicking others mentioned. but it obviously did something cause it ran rough and died! The real time monitor is tricky...the RPM looks correct and the vac/boost does as well. The injector is tough to tell because it goes so fast for short bursts. But I can see it firing in that window.

I have a few requests out on the PLX forum and one to PLX tech support about the software. I really think this is an issue with the software, maybe I am missing a setting somewhere. There is NO instructions or guides for the software.

I believe my preloaded map was off as well. Its a good bit hotter and more humid here, so I would think that could account for the difference. between what worked for them as well. Like I said I already cleared that table (saved for safe keeping...just in case) and made my own that I felt should help. I was getting knock pretty bad so basically I just started the table (both timing and fuel), sooner than what they had. SO it starts adjusting timing and fuel at 2k and 1psi. The knock does seem less, but I was trying to make sure it want my imagination. Wishful thinking can get the best of you if you cant verify. Unfortunately I cant get into the nitty gritty of it with out a datalogger working. My gauge can monitor AFR along with timing, fuel trim, and RPM on the same screen, but the dome thing wont let me see the fuel state. So I cant pinpoint when it is going into Open loop.

I also need to look at the 02 sens calibrator. Haven't even started on that yet. They really dont give you much to go on as far as tuning it. Its obvious to me though that the map on there seems pretty close. I may just leave it. That is the vacuum line that was pinched behind the trim panel. When that was happening it was pretty erratic. Now that that is cleared up, it went down to a constant AFR though still lean and knocking. And with the new map loaded Im pretty close to 14.7 in closed and much less knock. Although on start up sometimes it is a bit erratic and slow to get into range. Sometimes just turning it off and restarting will fix it. May be the learning curve issue. I unplugged the ECU to check connections, so that started all over again.


So all that to say I am confident it is going in the right direction. Verification behind the "seat of the pants" method is what Im after. Hard to do without the datalogger, or knowing how to use the R4 stuff. But Ill get it there.

Thanks for all the help to this point TA. Its been a great learning experience and your posts in here have helped a TON, along with speedy's write-ups and Gadgets guide (both have been read several times...Im a pilot...an operator...So when it comes to the technical stuff you have to beat it into us Thats why they dont let pilots pick up wrenches around airplanes!)

Texas_Ace

Well good, as for the O2 calbrator, You want that setup so that ANYTIME you go into boost, be it closed loop or open, you want it to take your AFR's down to ~12, so basically anytime you go into 0.1psi of boost you want your AFRs to drop to ~12.



In my case my map starts at 0psi and 0 RPM's and builds gradually to the max boost and RPM's (and far beyond just in case) keeping the AFR's right at 11.8.

Timing i set after AFR's were done, it is not as big of a deal, just leave the stock map alone for now and adjust later. the ECU will adjust for knock.

You can start a rough tune just by eye, see what the AFR's are doing at a given RPM and adjust map to compensate.

But until you get teh logger in place you are pretty much stuck.

Oh, and don't worry about the fuel state on the logging/gauge. You will see the AFR's drop a lot when it does go into open loop. Pretty much anytime you go WOT you are in open loop, or should be.

skrassow

OK, heres an observation. When starting the truck, when its still cold, it will go into open loop. But it is real lean during this time. It says open loop but is only running about high 15 low 16 AFR. It also seemed to be stuck in open loop...it didnt want to go to closed loop even after it was warm. Restarting it got it to switch over. So Im not sure what to make of that, other than possibly the stock fuel pump just isnt putting out enough to keep up in open loop? I plan to swap that this weekend. all closed loop operations is still pretty good on the AFR.

When letting off the gas, in gear, should I see it lean out? This should be an open loop operation as well correct? If so it should be going to the 11.8 range, not the other way. Just tuning may of course help that, Im just not sure what point to start making adjustments without a datalogger.

Im still waiting on a response from tech support about the datalogger issue, in the mean time Im driving it sparingly and keeping an eye on things, trying to figure out what I can.

On the 02 calibrator, TA, you are using the AFR calibrator correct? If I understand correctly then these units basically do the same thing, just go about it differently. You truck has the newer wideband typs factory sensors and mine has the older ones. so its a diff box, but the concept for tuning it is the same.