rangerhawk

I just traded my 2000 4runner, 5-speed in for a 2004 awd 4runner with V8 and 5-speed automatic trans.

I'm just wondering though why Toyota made the decision to do away with the 5-speed manual trans when its so popular here in the states.

Does anyone know the answer to this questions?

rimpainter.com

My best guess would be Toyota did a market study on who was buying them and where. I think CO led the race in manual purchases. Remember, the new Taco has a 6 speed manual, so they aren't gone completely.

But as far as SUV's go, the choices are getting pretty limited. If I was in the market for a new SUV with a manual trans, I think I would lean towards (gasp) a SC'd Nissan Xterra.

rangerhawk

Thanks 96runner. I pretty much thought that was the reasoning, but it seems very short sighted to me. However, on the bright side, my new 04 runner with 5spd auto is one nice ride! So I can't complain to much.

rimpainter.com

Sweet, post some pics of it.

Gangus2006

Couldnt you just do a swap if you wanted a MT enough?

Glenn

While a lot of the "automaticization" is due to marketing reasons, some of it can probably be attributed towards streamlining production and reducing costs. I think it is unfortunate that loyal Toyota buyers are seeing fewer choices.

Manuals can certainly be swapped in place of an automatic transmission in many situations. Who would be willing to undertake this job is another question entirely. It would seem that instead of doing the swap, many people would just buy an automatic equipped vehicle or a different brand that offered what they wanted.

Flamedx4

The official answer from Toyota a few years ago was because such a high percentage of sales were autos they decided to concentrate on that segment of the buyers. (In other words - the soccer mom SUV.) Now, from a friend who is a fairly high-up engineer for Mitsubishi, I get an answer that makes more sense. A- autos cushion the drivetrain and will therefore allow everything a greater chance to reach the end of warranty (nice huh?) B-autos are easier and cheaper to build, and when you factor in A- built just well enough to get out of warranty, they can become really cheap. Advance featured are merely programming, nearly no cost... which brings us to C-Notice how most of the remaining manual trans only come with the least powerful engines? It's expensive to design new transmissions (notice how GM for example used German-sourced manual trans in the last 10 years?) for the more powerful V-6s and V-8s, and for a declining number of sales they've just gone with the most profit option - use autos.... Even the Japanese car companies are now run by the accountants and not enthusiasts. Tragic.

WatsonMD

The obvious answer is Soccer Moms!!!!

It is much too difficult to shift gears as the soccer mom is barreling down the road, weaving, over the speed limit by 10-15mph as little jonnie is late to his practice. Meanwhile, she is putting on makeup, doing her hair, talking with soccer mom #2 (katie, lindsey....something with a y or e on the end) about how her latest appointment at the nail/hair salon got screwed up. Nevermind, the starbucks coffee she keeps nipping on as she searches through the console to find some kiddie DVD to keep the kids entertained for the 10min ride to the field.

There just isn't anything like the feel of a clutch/stick when driving.

Just my thoughts.
Andrew

kyle_22r

actually, i'd rather dive headfirst into a manual before an auto...ever look inside an automatic tranny? :eek: they're certainly not easier to rebuild than a regular gearbox.

i believe manuals have always been outsold by quite a margin by automatics in the last 50 years. however, there was always the *option* unlike nowadays. also, in the past, it seems that not as many people bought cars and trucks with every single option like they do nowadays(try finding a plain jane ford superduty single cab 4x4 with a 6 speed at any dealer here, not gonna happen!)

you can also put a lot of the blame on the whole truck image thing. in the past it seems that most people who bought trucks were in it mainly for the utilitarian purpose of them. therefore, they probably wouldn't mind having a 3 speed tranny if it does its job. nowadays, most times i see an f250 driving around it's some guy wearing a business suit or some lady driving it to the grocery store. the people who drive these things are the types that are worried about dropping their coffee because their other free hand is on their cell phone so they can't be bothered with shifting gears

rangerhawk

Soccer Moms!!!

Yeah, that is a reason I can believe!!!

Soccer Moms.....talking on their cell phones while they are driving.....

Soccer moms are the bane of all SUV enthusiasts.....

LarsDennert

Haha that sounds like the reply I'd expect from a Mitsubishi engineer. Those AWD turbo cars burned through transmissions.

X-AWDriver

Actually AWD cars eat clutches and that's only when modded and as long as you run a full face organic disc and I replaced it every 2 seasons or 15k miles,any thing 4 or 6 puck then your were asking for trouble.
My stock tranny had one rebuild in 8 seasons of drag racing.

roger

It's all market driven...face it, most SUVs are just glorified grocery-getters.

I find it hard to believe that it's cheaper to build slushboxes than manuals. Manuals are much simpler and have fewer parts. Now if you're talking about the R&D that goes into developing a new tranny, that could be a different story. Then again, I'm no engineer either....

Manioca35

at the risk of sounding dumb - I don't really mind my auto as much as I thought I would. The ECT makes a HUGE difference climbing into the mountains and passing. The main problem I have is lack of fine control on engine braking during descents. Certainly a manual would be nice, but it certainly does NOT turn the thing into a soccer mom, crap-mobile!

X-AWDriver

I drive an auto now but with foot surgery in my future I will need it and that's why I'm selling my '97 5 speed (and after $2500 in goodies in a year,grrrr).

I think the move to automatics is that's the preferred choice by the general public (even Runners with 5 speeds aren't all that common) and the plus is that the auto has the downhill assist mode which is nice for wimps that get freaked out a little by steep inclines.
I'm sure Toyota is still saving money by just offering the auto in the Runner since they don't have to deal with two trannies and just worry about the one.

kyle_22r

but the thing that makes me angry is that this is the only area they do this to my knowledge. they still make all the manual transmisisons, they just don't sell them in north america! :mad:

LarsDennert

The advantage of the automatic is that you can go places where stick shifts need crawler boxes to keep from toasting their clutch. That's been my experience anyway. The automatic L-Lo is like 2-Lo on a stick when descending a hill and that makes you ride the brakes to control speed. At least the ABS does a decent job of sorting it out. I haven't seen the new traction control and Hill descent on the 4th Gen in action. My dad traded his '95 for a '04 so we'll see when I drag him out.

Forerunner

Yep, all companies are there to make money first and foremost, and Toyota is no exception. I miss manual transmission in my previous truck. For the most part, I don't care for Toyota's latest line-up of vehicles, save a couple. If I had, say, 30k to spend, would I go and buy a brand new 4Runner? Nope, I would go look for an older heavily modded 4Runner that has been rebuilt from ground up... somewhere in Southwest where rust is not an issue.. ( I have seen cars in Arizona from 1940s with original paint and hardly any rust).. That would be a hell lot more fun to drive, more unique, more capable off road than anything brand new stock from Toyota or anyone else, and, possible to work on yourself, as opposed to all this brand new electronic filled bull that only stealer can fix. It would also probably get better gas mileage and turn far more heads than one of the year 00+ SUV's that every yuppie is driving. Newer, in my opinion, is not always better. Automatic vs manual is preference, but it sucks not to have the choice.

4RUNR

For a hobby and a manual buy a Porsche. The point of most vehicles for most people is to get from point A to point B, with as less hassle as possible.

Cranking the engine by hand was a hassle, and so is (soon was) shifting.

roger

You'll always be able to get manual trannies. Many truck buyers still prefer a manual. People have been predicting the death of manual transmissions for more than 50 years and it still hasn't happened.