Figit090

For my first truck I want an 85-89 4runner... because they have the EFI and anything older is kinda too old...if they were even made much older than that.

But anyway, i've been looking at several different runners and I found one that's nice, not for sale, but i was wondering how somthing like it would handle, because i want somthing higer than the stock 4runner, but i don't want to be driving somthing stiff as a brick or too dangerous to drive the speed limit because of it's COG being to high... and i thought since a lot of you guys probably have these trucks maybe you could post pics of your truck and what different setups do.

I was also curious about the 85 because it has a solid front axle... I know that the solid axle is good for crawling, but in terms of handling and on-road running what would that change?

Is there any specific setup that is GOOD for being stable, being considerably higer than stock and still make a good driving truck??


I won't be getting a truck soon but we're looking and i just wanted to know what i might be doing with my truck... and my experiance with lifts is kinda discouraging... I've ridden in a lifted 4door F-250 and an Exursion... the truck had like 6-7 inches lift at least and the exursion about 4... and it makes them ride rather stiffly... i can't compare that to stock but it isn't great...

Here's a car domain page with a nice looking runner... how do you think it would handle?? and is that overly dangerous over the stock truck??
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...275_1_full.jpg

Figit090

There's also this truck... thought i might as well post it too because it's also high... it's for sale too...relisted. I wouldn't get it, but what are the dangers of having somthing like the black one, and then the yellow one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6442&item=24751029 54&rd=1

fooddude

that second site doesnt work for me.

User 051420

Copy and paste it, it'll work.

Fahrenheit 451

First things first, you don't want a huge lift. It took longer than it should have, but in general the 4wheeling community has caught on to "travel, not lift". Although you have to have some lift to get more suspension travel you don't want something that sets you up so high that you tip over on every off camber bit of road/trail. I think it is more common now to see rigs lifted 5" with the emphasis on articulation of the suspension. Even that much is more the domain of the hardcore wheeler that is heading for rocks and rough country. If you aren't hardcore, don't even go that high. Get good springs and eliminate as much of the front and rear drag points as you can and you will likely never have a problem.
Me personally, I'm not a trail rig wheeler. I have had my '85 EFI 4Runner for 12 years now and it has been on a bunch of dirt roads, some rough roads, in mud and a few tougher roads and with only 3" of lift I've only been stuck twice and drug the frame once. Both times I got stuck I was in the same spot. Once going in and once going out. Both times I drug the rear bumper and lost traction at the rear wheel.
As far as how the lift affects handling, it is exactly like you would figure. If you go high and soft, cornering will scare the crap out of you on the road. The front end will nosedive and the opposite rear will flex/lift. If you go stiff, it'll scare you just as much because you won't feel it until a wheel starts to lift.
My truck with it's ancient Alcan 3" springs that are frankly too stiff, rides like a damn sportscar on the road. I can literally dive into turn and give it gas and shoot right through. However, on the trail, even with these newer softer shocks it is something of a spine jarring experience. Softer shocks and dumping the rear overload leafs would work wonders.
As far as the two ebay rigs, they are really set up for use offroad. As the seller mentions, the yellow one has been primarily used offroad. You can set up trucks to do both daily driving and offroad, but you have to make a choice at some point. If you really need a vehicle that is a good, safe daily driver, don't expect to be a rock crawling wonder. The opposite holds true. That is why you see so many trailer rigs (queens), to be really good offroad means being basically unusable on the road.
Later 4Runners with the IFS have the benefit of much better on road handling, but are weaker offroad due to the nature of the IFS design resulting in the differential clearance decreasing. Also, Toyota went a bit wimpy on the components and if you get a little rough, they like to bend and break. Lifting them only compensates slightly for the design/manufacture flaws unless you spend some really big $$ on something like a Total Chaos set up.
Lastly, did I happen to mention that my '85 EFI 4Runner is for sale? :cry:
Unfortunately, two doors and a baby just don't go together so this one has to hit the trail.
Here are a couple pics of it (assuming I figure out how to post them): It should give you a general idea of what an old settled 3" lift looks like:




and a couple bonus shots as this whole selling thing gets underway:
LCEngineering 22re motor, headers, K&N, odds and ends

an idea of what 3" with 31" tires looks like with some braided stainless brake lines:

All the necessary Carb tags for you guys in emissions areas:

Can you say "Toyota?"

Keeps on ticking:


And now on to the classifieds section...

Figit090

nice truck! just curious, i wouldn't buy it because of your location, but how much are you going to ask for it??

I'm also wondering, what kind of power does the 22R put out stock and what can you do with it?? like is it sluggish, peppy, does it get the truck moving well, or does it work hard to really move the truck?



I had one more question, i've seen turbo toyotas but they are just automatic and i was wondering, if you could bolt on one of those turbos or if they are a different engine...i don't remember what it was, and also, would a manual benifet much from the turbo? I like the idea but someone told me that the turbo wouldn't benifet as much with a five speed as it would with an auto.

Oh and in terms of lift, i wouldn't go any higher than this truck.. i would just get slightly smaller tires though... i forget what kind they are but i know the tire/wheel setup i want...it's pretty common.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...474028377&rd=1


Oh yeah, Fahrenheit 451, what are the advantages of those rims over others? I've noticed they don't cost as much as the billet rims because they are pressed steal (sorry if that's wrong i forgot the term..lol) and they LOOK lighter... but are they?? I don't know what rim (or tire for that matter) to get yet, i am still far into the learning stage of offroading...

i'd ask more, but i don't want to overload you guys with any more q's...sorry!

My99

I can answer part of your question. The turbo's, as far as I know only came in auto's. I had one for a few brief months and loved it (86 model). I wish they came in 5 speeds. Honestly, hooked to an auto, in stop and go driving it didn't feel any spunkier than a 5 speed. On they highway you felt it though. A 5 speed will always net more power than an auto, because it doesn't have as much drivetrain loss in it. The engines ARE different. Because of the turbo, toyota changed the engines. Now, it MIGHT be possible to get a 5 speed tranny to bolt up to a turbo engine, that I'm not sure about. Either way, the regular 22RE 4 banger is just fine for 31's or less around town. If you do a lot of high speed (70-80) mph driving, then you might want to consider an alternative, as you'll really be winding these out, although they can do it.

Figit090

ok..cool.... dissapointing but cool. I'd be plenty happy with the stocker though because of it's insane reliability and length of engine life. Pretty encouraging!! read an ad with a truck that hit over 300k miles... i'd like to see another vehicle with that much runnin' on it! is there?? I just stumbled across the 4runner and loved it's features and i've learned that toyotas can take a beating but what other trucks can??

(not to diss toyota's of course...i don't own one and i know there's nothing like them)

How expensive would an aftermarket IFS system cost?? I saw one truck that had like 7 inces lift...it was newer but just plain awsome and the rear was hinged like halfway down the frame...looked like it could handle big jumps... or somthing like that, i don't know enough to describe it but it reminded me of a 4link, but i doubt it was.

I have a question about the front seats... how do they function as in folding and sliding to allow easy removal/entrance of rear passengers? I saw in another thread how a custon 85 extra cab had corolla seats or somthing and they looked nice but i dunno if they'd be compatible.
I do know that in a GMC jimmy the front seats fold and slide really easy with one push on a switch..but what do the yotas do?

Fahrenheit 451

Getting somebody in the back of a 1st gen 4Runner requires fitness, friendliness and if you lift it much, some acrobatic skill. Calling it a 4-5 passenger vehicle is a stretch. You can do it, but it really isn't made for that. I've had 5 people and ski gear and 4 people and all their bikes and gear in/on mine before and trust me, they all have to be friends
As for lifting an IFS, if you aren't just cranking torsion bars and stuffing blocks into or under springs, figure on $800-1000 as a ballpark start for a decent kit including shocks and rear spring replacements, but you would still have the same differential clearance and suspension travel generally. That doesn't include any driveline mods if you go tall enough. For a top of line, get freaky set up with slip yoke and stub cv, porsche inners, upper and lower control arm and long travel springs in the rear, you could easily buy the truck twice. On the other hand, $800-1000 worth of work on a solid axle set up will get you some fairly top line stuff in a shorter lift.
The advantage to the rims I have on my 4Runner are they are plain jane black painted steel rims. You can beat them up and never know or care you did. Take some alloy or aluminum rims out on the trail and you can easily find yourself a rim or two poorer by the time you come home. It is another consideration. Do you wants looks, functionality or somewhere inbetween? Personally, I have no fantasy life built up around automobiles. To me they are tools so I go with what works. If it doesn't make it work better why waste the time and $? Is my Scandinavian heritage showing?
As far as tires go, the arguments could go on forever. I like the Goodyear Wrangler MTRs like I have on my truck for the strong sidewalls and stout traction. Lots of sticks and sharp rocks in the desert and good sidewalls can mean $ saved. They are loud, don't like to take turns at faster highway speeds and need more frequent rotation due to their aggressive tread design, but they are well worth it IMO.
The 22r's and 22re's are limited in horsepower potential but are incredibly modifiable with readily available aftermarket parts. The stock EFI runs around 116hp and you can crank that up to around 150 without having to modify the fuel system. With fuel system mods you can go over 200hp. The turbos in my opinion are run around town toys. Unless you are flat out desert running the turbo and the inherent lag issues are no good for offroading. You need good steady horsepower, not something that suddenly catches up and shoots you over the obstacle ahead of you and maybe the next couple before you know it. The Turbo was available with a 5sp. It used the R151f tranny in '86-'87. However you cannot just stick a turbo on a regular 22r. The bottom end has to built to match the compression requirements I believe.
Sounds like you are getting a good idea of what you want and this is key. Shop in your mind before your wallet ever comes out!

mikedog

Fahrenheit 451,

Do you know if the engine will pass emissions without the AIR tubes installed in the header? Here in Cali, I think the truck would fail on the visual part without them installed.

Any bad experiences with that header wrap? I'd like to do my mine (no $$$ for ceramic coating right now), but I've heard only bad things about using it.

Fahrenheit 451

I can't really say if it will pass CA emissions. I bought the truck in Denver years ago when they had emissions rules and it came stock without the air injection. I think the thing that would shoot it down on a visual inspection would be that the AFM has been opened and modified in the past so the seal has been broken.
The headers I have are ceramic coated so there shouldn't be any of the standard issues with rusting out. I confess, I did go ahead and shoot some extra high heat paint on them as an added measure. I should have gone with longer tape and wrapped them all the way down to the collector, but it was my first try and the tape I bought wasn't long enough.

Flamedx4

My father has an 85 Xtracab that is nearing 300k. I put 172K on my 85 4runner. Both with Zero problems. My 4runner is still going strong today at right around 230k so the owner says. The 22re and 3000 mile oil changes is a happy combination.

Forget the turbo. This was available for 86 and 87 then replaced with the V6. They did come with the 5 speed, my wife had an 86 5sp turbo, sold it in 2 years, got tired of constant maintenance to keep it running right) The long term reliability is a problem. Notice that during the mid 80s nearly everyone had turbos and by the late 80s they were all gone? Warranty costs is the reason. Today turbos are coming back because the technology is better.

On either a solid axle or IFS 4" is a good height. It's tall enough to run 33s with plenty of room and not so tall the driveability is lost. I had a Skyjacker soft ride kit (net actual 3 1/2 inches) on my 4runner and it rode better than stock. It handled great with 33x12.50s on 15x8 rims. I changed to 4.88s and it drove just like stock, and the mileage was still the same at 170k as when new - 18-19 daily and 22-23 on hwy trips. I miss it... The pass side seat had a cable that released the seat slide forward when you flipped the tilt forward - all in one smooth move. It left plenty of room to get in and out, it's just that it's an awkward climb. I'm tall so it was easy for me...

There are 2 ways you can get into the 4 wheeling "sport" - buy a rig ready to play or buy a decent stocker and modify it yourself. One the one hand you can incredible deals on rigs ready to rock and roll. Around here an 84-89 4runner with 5.29s and 35 in decent shape (usually with a rebuilt motor with 50-70k on it, that sort of thing) can be had for under 5 grand any day of the week. I just looked at one for $2500. Not a thing wrong with it except wear and tear. BUT, if you build one up yourself you will probably learn more, appreciate it more, and really enjoy what you've done when you hit the trail. Depends on you.

Have fun!

kyle_22r

as for the turbo questions, 4runners were only available with an automagic on turbo'd models. however, pickups could be had with an R151F 5 speed transmission. this is the most desirable toyota transmission for 2 reasons. it's the strongest of all pickup/runner trannies, and it has a 23 spline output and uses a gear driven transfer case.

the swap is fairly straightforward, the only real mods you might have to do are cut new holes for the shifters. everything else bolts right up

elripster

A couple of things to consider. One, if you value the truck enough to use it as a daily driver, you won't be going places you need a solid axle. IFS with a locker will do just fine. When you are ready to take on body damage, then you are getting into solid axle territory. An IFS truck with a locker will out wheel any solid with open diffs any day. (done it myself more than a few times)

If you stay with tires under 33", IFS components are stronger, not weeker than the solid axles. You just need an idler arm brace and you're good to go. (Downey off road) That said, there are things like aftermarket birfield joints and cross over steering to beef up the solid axle well beyond what IFS can do. Again if you don't wheel where you're crunching sheet metal, these things are not important. But under 33", the IFS is very maintanence free. If you break a CV joint, it's much easier to fix on and IFS rig than the comparable birlfield is on a solid axle. The IFS rides better than the solid and clearance is higher under the diff, not lower. It just doesn't increase as much when the park a tire on a rock.

Big lift is not necessary and you can run 33's with cheap upgrades amounting to 1.5" of suspension lift, a 1" body lift, and some minor trimming. ( http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/ProductLine.shtml http://home.san.rr.com/sdors ) With 31's, no mods are needed. I'd suggest going with less lift for a few hundred dollars and spending the rest on say rock sliders and a better rear bumper. Throw in a locker and you've got one capable rig where the desire to avoid rock rash is the limiting factor, not the truck's abilities.

If you get an 88 or 89 many have the V6, you don't need to regear with 31's. She'll pull 'em just fine and you'll find highway speeds a breeze. The 4cylinder will still get around on 31's but you have to decide for yourself if the perfomance is acceptable. Keep in mind 4runners weigh more than the pickups. I find the 4cylinder inadequate pulling 31's with stock gearing in a 4runner. Make sure, should you find a 3.0 V6, that the head gasket recall was done. Most all have. I have 276,000 on my 3.0, it's a very solid motor and makes more torque and idle than the 4 cylinder does peak.

These V6's did come with the chain transfer case and a stronger transmission like the one the turbo has. The chain Tcase can't accept lower gearing. Should you find yourself doing a lot of crawling, you can put a gear case with lower gears in it for about 600 or so.

In my readings on the turbo trucks, many reviews are mixed. The trucks are rare. The engines have had longetivity issues due to extra heat and strain. Also tuning problems have popped up. When they are working though, they are fun to drive. I think you'd be more happy in a V6, it's more turnkey. That said, there are many motor swap options for Toyotas so you really don't have to stick with one motor for ever.

Frank

Frank

Flamedx4

Right said, Elripster! Good info.

I have 210k on my 3.0 now, and it still runs perfectly. Uses no oil - clean exhaust still and the mileage is still good. But it does leak a bit here and there... I was planning a v8, but with gas going up and up... hard to say.

elripster

As far as stability goes. While it is obvious that lower is more stable, with the sway bar on and tires not low on air, the IFS feels to corner well. Body roll is minimal even with a 4" lift. (not that I'm recommending the 4" lift just using it as an example because I have one.)

Frank

Flamedx4

When I ran 4" lift and 33s on my 4runner, I could corner until the tires squalled. The danger though, is that when you do find the limits it goes fast and isn't very forgiving. (you don't tend to slide, you tend to flip...) The truck with 4" and 3" body lift on 35s feels rock stable, corners fine. But I do NOT push it like I did the 4runner. I'll take that first rock or tree dent in the paint job as a badge of honor, but pavement rash on the sides or roof is the mark of stupidity.... ;-)

Figit090

wow!!!

thank you everyone so much for all the responses and help!! this really has narrowed things down, i already have eliminated the solid axle, because it's only a first truck, i'm not going extreme....

i'll probably look for a stock 86-89 now, but as new as possible, i'd like an 88 though because it's kinda a lucky #....hehe and considering 88 had no major changes into 89....i don't need the newer one....probably wouldn't notice the diff between them anyway!

now...the v6/4 cyl delemma...i need to look and see whay size tires i like...then i'll look into that...i'd prefer the 4 cylinder noting it would save gas money...but i like power too... I HATE GAS PRICES!!! and i don't drive yet!

elripster

I feel your pain on the gas thing. The V6 will use more, no question.

I have been told by a Toyota tech that the 89 was a very desirable year since it was the second year of the V6 and last of the removeable top. Whether that's actually true who knows. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a clean 88 or 89, go for it.

I found with 32's stock gears I could still get 18 mpg on the freeway at speeds around 75-80. Around town was bad, like 14. The guy I bought the truck from said he got 20 out of it only freeway. I figure I have a lead foot, he was an older gentleman. Realistically, unless you drive the speed limit on the freeway only, 18 out of a V6 5 speed is about the best you'll see. I now have 33's and 4.88 gears, I can get about 16 mostly freeway if I stay under 75. Maybe 17 if I stay at 65 but that never happens since average speeds are 75-80 in these parts. Since I'm 6% undergeared (read I rev higher than stock), if I get up around 80 and stay there I'm lucky to hit 15.

What ever you do, make sure you get the 5 speed. We're not playing with a lot of power here and the auto absorbs noticeably more than the 5 speed.

Frank

Figit090

yeah, i noticed that on the specs...soaks up more fuel too...

I think that i'll settle with the 4 cylinder, you have the 6 cyl right?? because if the 4 cylinder gets hit that bad i won't be able to afford to drive...

With various upgrades i bet it could handle good sized tires, but we'll see i guess!!