MoveOvr

Hi Guys!

quick question....i'm looking at buying the TRD headers for my 2000 4runner. there are two different parts offered, i was just wondering if someone could tell me the difference. the two parts described on TRD's site are:

Part 00602-17141-006 : Header, set V6, 4Runner 96-98 all; 1999-2000 Non-LEV Federal Spec

or

Part 00602-17141-007 : Header, set V6, 99-02 LEV

i guess what i dont get is what Non-LEV federal spec means, versus LEV. which set should i get? my 4runner is bought in canada, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance
Bill

pfdaxe

One is for Runners that came with 2 cats and the other is for single cat.

leebee

hey bill!

lev is short for low emission vehicle, check your owners manual and see if it tells you where to find out if it is lev. should be somewhere in the engine section of the manual.

lee

jimbo74

are you in canada? if you are, get the Part 00602-17141-006

if your ontario is in CA get the otehr one

Gangus2006

Look under your car and see i fyou have one cat or two. If two, get the LEV one, is 1, get the Non-LEV one..

MoveOvr

great!! thanks for the info guys!...i have one catalytic converter for sure! so it looks like the Non-LEV for me!....i'm in ontario canada. wish i was in california!!...haha..

i'll double check the owners manual too though lee!

thanks again!

boraxman

You may want to check out JBA headers. I hear that theyre better than TRD and cost is close.

zebra1550

In my personal experience, you are taking a gamble installing TRD headers on your ride. I installed TRD headers on my 2001 Tacoma. The headers never sealed up right, and leaked constantly. After re-working them several times, they finally sealed. Then I installed a supercharger, and it complicated the problem. The additional heat and exhaust fried the crappy TRD gaskets. The headers we re-worked several more times and never did seal. Keep in mind it cost me about $100 every time I had the exhuast shop try to quiet the leaking. Finally, I sealed the headers as best I could, took of the S/C, and traded the Tacoma for a Tundra.

Several weeks later I saw my old truck on a rack at the dealership. The mechanic was taking the headers and entire exhaust system off and re-installing new manifolds, cats, and piping. Keep in mind that during my quest to quiet the headers, nearly every pipe in the exhaust sysytem had been cut and shortened to relieve any tension on the headers. Thus the entire system had to be replaced in order for the new manifolds to fit properly. I saw the dealership manager and the customer standing under my former truck talking. I couldn't hear what was being said, but from their expressions it wasn't anything friendly. In the end, I think I calculated that my $700 TRD headers cost me close to $2000 when you added up the ceramic coating and at least 7 trips to the exhaust shop.

My advice, save the money you'll spend on headers for a 7th injector kit for your S/C, or even the URD fuel kit. I am assuming you have a s/c from your avatar picture. If you absolutely have to get headers, I'd go with the JBA headers. They use a 3 bolt flange design which is far superior to TRD's crappy 2 bolt flange design. Plus, JBA headers are direct fit with no cutting. The TRD's require cutting, so once you install them there's no going back to stock. If you notice my sig, I learned my lesson with headers. My 4Runner has the S/C, 7th injector kit, TRD exhaust, and a walbro fuel pump. The money was well spent and my truck runs quiet with no exhaust leaks. I can live without the extra 15hp for peace of mind that I wont be running to the exhaust shop every two weeks. I loved my Tacoma and would still be driving it right now if it weren't for those crappy TRD headers.

I know there are lots of people out there running TRD headers with zero problems. I just wanted to share with you how bad thing can get when the headers leak. Good luck with your decision.

Darx

I have the TRD headers on my 01 Taco and they're great! There's a newer version fo them and they have a spring on the bolts whihc help them seal up better apparently. I have had min for about 4 months so far and no problem. They're welded to the cat-back which is also TRD.

Gangus2006

You have to run a torqueing cycle when installing headers..

Install headers, torque down bolts..
Drive for 20 minutes or so to let engine warm to running temp, re torque.
Let engine cool, retorque...

Redo that about 3-4 times and your cool...

6 sets of headers, none ever leaked...

zebra1550

The problem with my headers had nothing to do with the torquing cycle. As a matter of fact, they never leaked at the head itself. It was all three of the two bolt pattern flanges that held the rest of the headers together. I had JBA headers on my tundra. The JBA's never leaked once in the two years I had the truck. In my opinion the 3.4L TRD headers are just a bad design. I really like the looks of the JBA 3.4L headers, the flanges are all 3 bolt self sealing. At this point though, I've had my fill of 3.4L headers. The manifolds on my 4Runner work just fine.

MoveOvr

funny you mention this process, i just saw this explained this weekend on that show "Trucks" on the speed channel. he said, torque em down...let the engine run a while for the gasket to heat up, then re-torque.

thanks zebra for telling me about your experience...it has made me think twice...especially since you have mentioned that it requires cutting, and once i cut, i cannot go back to stock?...thats not good.

thanks for all the tips! very helpful!!

MoveOvr

wow zebra, reading your sig, your 2002 runner is exactly what i want. i want the 7th injector kit, but unfortuneatly the kit requires dual catalytic converters, which my car does not have.

Churnd

My advice to you... if you get the headers, make sure you're prepared to do the possible maintenence required with them (first torquing process, then periodic checks to see if bolts remain tight). Replacing the gaskets on my 3.0 got old after the 3rd time... I won't get headers again if I can avoid doing so... at least not on an engine in such a tight engine bay.

The last time, I finally found someone who knew what he was doing... and he cut the flanges on the headers to where each pipe wouldn't be connected to the other. This helps with the leaking, and after he did that I didn't have anymore leaks... I have no idea how it's doing now since I sold it this past summer.

IMO, you're better off without them. The complications they can bring far outweigh the little power gains they give. Now, don't get me wrong. Some people on this board have them and they've worked fine. Just be aware of the good sides and bad.

Oh yeah, I'd go with Downey over any other brand. I think most people that have the Downeys are the ones that haven't had problems.

midiwall

I have Downey headers that had originally been installed as a welded system, and then pointed out to the shop that I could no longer get to my tranny pan; so they re-did the work using a bolt-in flange arrangement. doh!

In less than a year, I burned through 2 sets of gaskets on each of two two-bolt flanges. I finally got the advice to try copper gaskets, ordered up a couple from Summit and I haven't had a problem since. The soft copper produces a very nice mating between the flanges, and is quite leak free.


Just another 2 cents of info...

MoveOvr

hey thanks guys! i checked out downeys website, i think i might actually get those instead of the trd ones. for half the price too. performance should be about the same if not better right? i wonder if they ship to canada, i'll have to call and ask.

NOTE - These Headers do fit 4 Runners, but do not fit any model with a column shift. See cross over exhaust #17434.

stupid question, whats a column shift? and whats the advantage of ceramic over chrome? theres a 100 dollar difference in price

midiwall

It's possible to design a "bad" header, or a header that doesn't give you the maximum peformance. For our engines, all of the commercially available header systems will give you about the same results. Most of the difference is in the fit (crossover pipe above or below the tranny), fashion, and dealer markup.

If you're now shopping for Downey's, it may help to check out TruckPerformance.com:
http://truckperformance.com/products...unner&sf4=3.4l

Note that with the Downey's, you SOMETIMES need to order the crossover pipe separately. TruckPerfomance.com includes that pipe.


A column shift is where the shifter is on the steering column versus down on the center console.

The ceramic coating will help keep the heat in the header and not let it escape into the engine compartment. That translates to a more pleasant experience under the hood. It's well recomended.



BIG NOTE: Downey is nortorious for not having parts in stock, and many online/local retailers may not have them in stock either (headers on a Toyota aren't a big seller). If that's the case (no parts in stock at Downey) then you can expect a LONG wait. TruckPerformance is where I got mine, and while they had the crossover pipe in stock, they had to get the headers shipped direct from Downey. I got the crossover in a couple of days, the headers themselves took a total of 6 weeks.


Side question... Are you planning to do the install yourself? It's a pretty big job in terms of time and it's an ugly job in terms of working in some pretty tight spaces.

MoveOvr

ya it seems like so much money for so little improvement...15hp max...but compared to trd....this is looking a lot better.

you mentioned the crossover pipe, i spoke with someone from downwy tonight to see if they ship to canada, and i told him which part i was interested in. he told me that the headers will fit no problem, but the crossover pipe will not. therefore i need to ensure that the exhaust place where i am getting it installed can fabricate one for me?...

since making custom exhaust is what their business is, i'm sure it wont be a problem to make that as well.

my column shift question was dumb, after you explained it, i couldnt believe i didnt just think of that...

answer to my ceramic question makes sense, i will pay the extra for that!

maybe i'll call downey and place the order over the phone, that way i can ask if they have any in stock first...but really the wait wont matter too much, i dont think i'll have it done until the spring...winters here suck...

to answer your question, i dont plan on installing it myself, i'll have the exhaust place do it for me. the shop doesnt do headers but does everything else with respect to exhaust, so i'll bring them the headers and have them install it and custom do the rest of the exhaust.

that truckperformance site looks pretty good. they are reliable to order from?

Vato Loco

Moveovr, if you decide to go with Downey....go to Focus....they'll hook you up and again tell them I sent you.

midiwall

Well, don't just look at HP but look at torque as well (and where on the RPM scale it occurs). Headers will tend to move the powerband down the scale, and focus the added power down in the pulling zone.

Remember also that what they're really doing is letting the engine exhale better. That means that as you do stuff to increase the "inhale" (deckplate mod, cold-air intake, supercharger) then it's easier to get that air out. The point being that putting headers on a N/A engine (i.e., not supercharged) with no air mods will NOT show as much of an improvement as if you put headers on an engine with all sorts of air mods (s/c'd).


Okay... you may want to be SURE of this. Here's my header story as it relates to my local exhaust/general maintenance shop doing the install:
http://www.midiwall.com/4Runner/headers.html

The short form is that installing these things is VERY time consuming. If you can haggle out a pre-agreed price with the shop, you'll come out ahead. Most folks figure 8 hours - if I had let my shop charge me per hour, I would have paid about $750 in labor alone.

I got them to quote me $300 firm BEFORE they saw the job. I gave them a LOT of info up front, even told them that they're underbidding, and they stuck to their quote. Their mistake was thinking that this would be a "simple header install". It's not.

I'm pretty sure that the crossover pipe that's in your truck right now runs over the top of the tranny, and it will will have to be cut out. There's no simple way to get it out of there without using a saw from underneath to cut it into _multiple_ pieces. Past that, the space that you have to work in is very cramped, and it just takes time to get the pieces in place.

And yes, an exhaust shop can easily make the crossover pipe for you. See if you can get them to do it on a mandrel bender. That'll give you the cleanest/smoothest bend.


"Brain Fart"!


Yeah, it's a well-spent $100.


Yeah...


Yeup, I know a few people that have used them and I haven't heard of any troubles. I'm pretty sure they'll ship to Canada.



Good luck!