Tranny flush questions... (Gadget?)
07-24-2003, 10:07 AM
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Tranny flush questions... (Gadget?)
I've read all the tranny flush info Gadget's provided on his site. Great stuff Gadget... many thanks! 
My rigs just shy of the 30,000 service point, so I want to get the tranny flushed and the rear diff fluid changed.
After much searching, I've found only one (1) tranmission center place in the area that provides a tranny flush service. And the only flush service they provide is a cooler line flush, not an pump inlet flush service. After reading Gadgets write-ups, I had some questions related to their service, so I stopped out and talk to one of the techs. He said their tranny flush service is done in the following way:
1. Tranny flush machine is connected to transmission cooler lines. Tranny flush machine determines the flow path (direction).
2. Flush machine then sucks all old tranny fluid from the tranny pan/filter only.
3. Tranny pan is dropped and inspected, filter is removed.
4. Tranny pan is clean. Filter/pan are replaced (with new gasket).
5. Cooler line flush machine then fills pan/filter with new ATF (Amsoil ATF provided my me) and begins pushing "all" old ATF out through the system and is collected by the flush machine from the other cooler line so it never reenters the tranny or new filter.
With all that said, here's my questions:
1. Has anyone ever heard of such a cooler line flush machine that can actually drain just the pan, then refill it??
2. If the cooler line flush machine does drain the pan/filter first, will that 'pull' or allow any old tranny fluid to backflow into the pan (is there a backflow prevention value in the tranny to prevent this)?
3. The shop quoted me a price of $160 to do the tranny flush service
(I'm providing the Wix tranny filter/Amsoil ATF). Does this seem about right??
4. What type of Amsoil fluid should I use for the rear diff and how much??
My rigs just shy of the 30,000 service point, so I want to get the tranny flushed and the rear diff fluid changed.After much searching, I've found only one (1) tranmission center place in the area that provides a tranny flush service. And the only flush service they provide is a cooler line flush, not an pump inlet flush service. After reading Gadgets write-ups, I had some questions related to their service, so I stopped out and talk to one of the techs. He said their tranny flush service is done in the following way:
1. Tranny flush machine is connected to transmission cooler lines. Tranny flush machine determines the flow path (direction).
2. Flush machine then sucks all old tranny fluid from the tranny pan/filter only.
3. Tranny pan is dropped and inspected, filter is removed.
4. Tranny pan is clean. Filter/pan are replaced (with new gasket).
5. Cooler line flush machine then fills pan/filter with new ATF (Amsoil ATF provided my me) and begins pushing "all" old ATF out through the system and is collected by the flush machine from the other cooler line so it never reenters the tranny or new filter.
With all that said, here's my questions:
1. Has anyone ever heard of such a cooler line flush machine that can actually drain just the pan, then refill it??
2. If the cooler line flush machine does drain the pan/filter first, will that 'pull' or allow any old tranny fluid to backflow into the pan (is there a backflow prevention value in the tranny to prevent this)?
3. The shop quoted me a price of $160 to do the tranny flush service
(I'm providing the Wix tranny filter/Amsoil ATF). Does this seem about right??4. What type of Amsoil fluid should I use for the rear diff and how much??
07-24-2003, 11:44 AM
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Well, I am not your explination or his is really quite right.
The pan CAN NOT BE SUCKED dry from the cooler line, no way. It can be sucked dry or close to it from the dip stick tube, but not the cooler line.
The cooler return line does not go to the bottom of the pan, so no way it can be sucked out that way. The pump inlet does not go to the bottom of the pan, close, but not all the way. So if they are appling suction to the cooler out line it still will not completely drain the pan, it can't.
They can stick a tube down the dip stick tube to suck out most all of the fluid, but why?
Here is what I think they are doing. They are simply draining the pan, removing it, changing the filter (ask for the old one back to verify), topping off the pan with new fluid and then starting the flush.
There is nothing wrong with that at all. It is how I do it at home. Then I disconnect the cooler return line and run it in a bucket and then topping it off and running the engine until the stream slows down, shut off, refill, repeat.
I seriously doubt they are sucking anythign from anywhere as there is no real advantage to that and it would be a slow process over just draining the pan out the drain plug.
You can do what they are doing at home, yourself and save some money, but there is nothing wrong with the way they are doing it.
It is just this sucking thing that bugs me. What machine are they using? I do not know of one that sucks, well fluid anyway. The only one that I know of that even has a pump in it is the pump inlet flush machine and that is only to lift the fluid to the pump inlet. All the flush machines I know of use the tranny's own pump to move the fluind in and out of the transmission, so where is this sucking coming from?
So does it really suck?
I use AMSOIL Series 2000 75w90 gear lube in all my gear boxes.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
The pan CAN NOT BE SUCKED dry from the cooler line, no way. It can be sucked dry or close to it from the dip stick tube, but not the cooler line.
The cooler return line does not go to the bottom of the pan, so no way it can be sucked out that way. The pump inlet does not go to the bottom of the pan, close, but not all the way. So if they are appling suction to the cooler out line it still will not completely drain the pan, it can't.
They can stick a tube down the dip stick tube to suck out most all of the fluid, but why?
Here is what I think they are doing. They are simply draining the pan, removing it, changing the filter (ask for the old one back to verify), topping off the pan with new fluid and then starting the flush.
There is nothing wrong with that at all. It is how I do it at home. Then I disconnect the cooler return line and run it in a bucket and then topping it off and running the engine until the stream slows down, shut off, refill, repeat.
I seriously doubt they are sucking anythign from anywhere as there is no real advantage to that and it would be a slow process over just draining the pan out the drain plug.
You can do what they are doing at home, yourself and save some money, but there is nothing wrong with the way they are doing it.
It is just this sucking thing that bugs me. What machine are they using? I do not know of one that sucks, well fluid anyway. The only one that I know of that even has a pump in it is the pump inlet flush machine and that is only to lift the fluid to the pump inlet. All the flush machines I know of use the tranny's own pump to move the fluind in and out of the transmission, so where is this sucking coming from?
So does it really suck?
I use AMSOIL Series 2000 75w90 gear lube in all my gear boxes.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
07-24-2003, 02:30 PM
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Yikes Jiffy Screw
I hate that shop anymore. Those guys are white trash. I took my 4Runner there and they were so unprofessional while working on my Toy. I usually change my own oil but at the time was in the middle of moving into my new apartment. When I have my rig worked on by a shop I expect them to pay attention. They were so busy goofing off talking to each other they over filled the engine by a quart. They also charge you for taking off the skid plate but didn't do so being all of the oil that dripped over the next day and a half. I am going to buy my own grease gun and rags and start doing it myself again. I am an anti Jiffy Lube former customer.
's
07-25-2003, 07:03 AM
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...
Im really due for a flush on my tranny...
Anyone have any suggestions of places to take it? I just remember the stealership wants alot for a tranny flush...
Anyone have any suggestions of places to take it? I just remember the stealership wants alot for a tranny flush...
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07-25-2003, 07:04 AM
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07-25-2003, 07:11 AM
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The Phoenix area dealers have a deal going right now for a Trans Flush for $129.
(Just so you have something to compare it to)
I myself would go to the dealer if I had an Auto trans. I cant afford to risk an oil spill on my precious garage floor.
(Just so you have something to compare it to)
I myself would go to the dealer if I had an Auto trans. I cant afford to risk an oil spill on my precious garage floor.
07-25-2003, 07:15 AM
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We have the same type of mob here in the UK for Lubes, brakes, shocks and exhausts - KwiK fit. I wouldn't take my company car there let alone my own.
With regard to the tranny flush, can't see how a suction machine would clean out the tranny without the engine running - would have trouble with the torque converter and the one thing that worried me is that they refill without purging the whole system and change the filter before the system is fully empty. To me that seems like they will fill the new filter with crud. To me the best bet is to Run the engine and flush through the tranny cooler pipes then change the filter, then refill.
Just IMHO.
Cheers
With regard to the tranny flush, can't see how a suction machine would clean out the tranny without the engine running - would have trouble with the torque converter and the one thing that worried me is that they refill without purging the whole system and change the filter before the system is fully empty. To me that seems like they will fill the new filter with crud. To me the best bet is to Run the engine and flush through the tranny cooler pipes then change the filter, then refill.
Just IMHO.
Cheers
07-25-2003, 09:21 AM
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Sadly enough, I called the local Toy stealership to find out about their tranny flush service. The service department told me they don't offer a tranny flush service since its not really necessary. I then asked, "Why isn't it necessary?" Their response was,"... because the torque converter only helds about ½-1 quart of ATF."
I immediately hung up!
I immediately hung up!
07-25-2003, 09:41 AM
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OK Gadget. The tranny flush machines sound a lot less sophisticated than I originally thought. 
I'm not opposed this to doing this myself since I've done numerous tranny pan/filter replacements on my old Ford. Just a question (or two)
1. Which cooler line is the return cooler line on a 2001 3.4L??
2. Ever try disconnecting both sides, putting an "catch" bucket on the return cooler side for the old ATF, then placing a "feed" bucket full of new ATF (and an adapter/hose) on the intake cooler line?
I'm not opposed this to doing this myself since I've done numerous tranny pan/filter replacements on my old Ford. Just a question (or two)1. Which cooler line is the return cooler line on a 2001 3.4L??
2. Ever try disconnecting both sides, putting an "catch" bucket on the return cooler side for the old ATF, then placing a "feed" bucket full of new ATF (and an adapter/hose) on the intake cooler line?
07-25-2003, 10:14 AM
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*Bump*
Speaking of tranny fluid...
I found a stealership who does it 2 ways (actually the dealership i got my rig from)
$85.00 they do a flush from the top...
$150.00 they do a flush, and drop your pan clean it, replace gaskets and seals....
At 30K should I replace my seals anyways.. or should i do the 85.00 one and worry about the seals and cleaning the filter at 60K?
I found a stealership who does it 2 ways (actually the dealership i got my rig from)
$85.00 they do a flush from the top...
$150.00 they do a flush, and drop your pan clean it, replace gaskets and seals....
At 30K should I replace my seals anyways.. or should i do the 85.00 one and worry about the seals and cleaning the filter at 60K?
07-25-2003, 10:15 AM
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Hillbilly:
This from the tech section may help:
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...neath-full.gif
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...ranny-full.gif
This from the tech section may help:
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...neath-full.gif
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...ranny-full.gif
Last edited by pfdaxe; 07-25-2003 at 10:18 AM.
07-25-2003, 10:48 AM
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To the proper line to disconnect is the line that returns ATF from the cooler to the tranny. To find which is the correct one, look at the passenger side of the tranny. You will see the two cooler hard lines. One will originate near the bell housing and the other toward the rear of the tranny. The one connected more to the rear is the one you want.
Follow that hard line forward until you see where it connects to the soft line. Disconnect it there and run that soft line into your collection bucket.
No, your idea of using a bucket filled with new fluid will not work. There is NO SUCKTION in the return line, so it can not suck in new fluid.
The way flush machines work is they have a large chamber separated with a rubber diaphram. One side of the chamber is filled with the new fluid and the other side is empty. The tranny's pump pushes the oil fluid into the empty side of the chamber and as it fills it puts pressure on the diaphram and that pushes the new fluid back to the tranny. It uses the tranny's own pump to exchange the fluid. As you can see the new fluid is not sucked into the tranny, but forced in by the tranny's own pump pushing against a diaphram in the flush machine.
I hope I have cleared up any questions you had.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Follow that hard line forward until you see where it connects to the soft line. Disconnect it there and run that soft line into your collection bucket.
No, your idea of using a bucket filled with new fluid will not work. There is NO SUCKTION in the return line, so it can not suck in new fluid.
The way flush machines work is they have a large chamber separated with a rubber diaphram. One side of the chamber is filled with the new fluid and the other side is empty. The tranny's pump pushes the oil fluid into the empty side of the chamber and as it fills it puts pressure on the diaphram and that pushes the new fluid back to the tranny. It uses the tranny's own pump to exchange the fluid. As you can see the new fluid is not sucked into the tranny, but forced in by the tranny's own pump pushing against a diaphram in the flush machine.
I hope I have cleared up any questions you had.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Last edited by Gadget; 07-25-2003 at 10:57 AM.
07-29-2003, 10:46 AM
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Diff lube question
The Tech-Write up section for Maintenance/Synthetic Fluids takes you to JA's site which has a write-up about the tranny, diff's, & transfer case fluids changeover. Earlier in this post, Gadget mentioned he uses Amsoil's 75W-90 synth in all his gear boxes, but according JA's write-up, he uses 75W-90 in front/tranfer case, but 80W-90 in the rear diff. Why the difference?? What's the advantage/disadvantage to 80W-90 in the rear??
07-29-2003, 11:13 AM
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I think that on my truck 80w90 is specked for the rear diff. I as well as most everyone uses 75w90 for simplicity.
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07-29-2003, 11:58 AM
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OK, call me a chump, but I'll bite anyway....
... I find that impossible?!? 
Originally posted by <96 Runner>
I used 80 - 90 in the rear and gained 10HP.
I used 80 - 90 in the rear and gained 10HP.
