Time to eat crow...
04-10-2003, 03:07 PM
#1
Away
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to eat crow...
Hey Everybody,
I hate to have to post this, but I have to bring this up so that maybe no one else will have to go thru the same thing.
Last year, when I was looking at suspension options, I asked about NWOR Springs. EVERYONE told me not to buy from them because they either had:
A. Inferior Products or
B. Poor Customer Service or
C. All the Above
I declined to heed this advice because NWOR offered a lifetime warranty on their springs and they seemed so nice on the phone when I had spoken to them. I bought my springs last November. You can see what I bought from them in my signature. The purchase went smoothly and my springs arrived. They certainly looked like a nice set of springs. Here's a thread about my install.
Before buying the springs, I was told that the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were DIFFERENT springs. When I received my springs from them, I noticed the springs they sent me had the EXACT same part # as the Tacoma Springs. I called NWOR to inquire about the possibilty of receiving the wrong set of springs. They assured me that while the springs had the same "family" of part numbers, they were indeed different springs. Again, I was told that the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were different springs. I spoke with Sergio for the initial purchase and for most of my subsequent calls to NWOR.
They promised the springs would give 1.5" of lift in the front, which I got after the initial install. The rear springs were also listed as providing 1.5" of lift. I got about 3" of lift out of them, which made me a bit ass-high. After removing the factory center cone isolators, the rear dropped another 0.5" which reduced the rake and it looked good. I wanted some rake, but not a lot.
Their website says that the front springs will "carry the additional weight of an added winch bumper and eliminate the Tacoma's drooping front end look". This implies you can throw a winch bumper on the truck and not have it sag. I bought a Manik Grill guard from another forum member here shortly after installing my springs. With it installed, the front end drooped quite a bit during braking and made the front end kinda "swishy* over bumps. Not the kind of behavior I expected based on their description of the springs.
After a few months, I noticed the front end was quite a bit lower than it had been right after the install, so I took off the grill guard. I gained about 3/8" hieght from doing that. It put me back up over 1" of lift, but not up to 1.5" like it should be. I just measured my truck and it's sitting 7/8" higher in front than before the springs were installed. No where near 1.5" of lift as promised. The rear is still sitting right where it was when I installed the springs. so, now I'm sitting extremely ass-high with a mushy front end, made all that much worse since there is so much wieght pushing forward because of all the rake.
I've called NWOR a few times to ask them to send me replacements for the front springs and their only response has been for me to remove all my springs, put the old ones back on and send them in to be inspected. That's just not really an option since that's such an f'ing pain in the @ss to do for the driveway mechanic. I can't use a home spring compressor on the front springs. I need to take them into a shop that has a decent wall-mount or clamshell type springs compressor to dismantle the front coil-overs. Besides, all I want is replacement springs for the fronts.
I called NWOR right before starting this post and played dumb for a bit when I got a salesperson on the phone. I think his name was Bill. I asked him about the statement concerning the winch bumper and if the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were one in the same. This time, I was told that they are one in the same spring. I was also told that the winch bumper would definitely make the springs droop. So, after that I proceeded to explain my situation and was met again with a brick wall which included being told that the reason the rear was so much higher was that the rear springs were most likely installed incorrectly.
As for the front, I was told that the way I was measuring the height increase/decrease was incorrect. I was told that from the top of the rim to the fenderwell was not a valid measurement and that I needed to use the "offical" Toyota measuring process by measuring from the frame to the ground while parked on a level surface, etc. Whatever.... Maybe that's fine for non-IFS trucks. Also, if I removed all the springs and sent them in, they could have them inspected and blah blah blah, I would have to pay shipping both ways even if they found the springs to be bad and were to send me replacements. No thank you.
The point to all of this (sorry it's so long-winded and rambling, but I'm pissed off), is to warn others not to buy anything from NWOR. They lie about their products. And once they have your money, they don't give a ˟˟˟˟ about you or your problems. Personally, I have no problems with the rear springs, it's just the fronts I want replaced.
Thanks for listening. I'm going to be saving for SAW's like everyone told me to get in the first place. Live and learn.
Dr. Z
I hate to have to post this, but I have to bring this up so that maybe no one else will have to go thru the same thing.
Last year, when I was looking at suspension options, I asked about NWOR Springs. EVERYONE told me not to buy from them because they either had:
A. Inferior Products or
B. Poor Customer Service or
C. All the Above
I declined to heed this advice because NWOR offered a lifetime warranty on their springs and they seemed so nice on the phone when I had spoken to them. I bought my springs last November. You can see what I bought from them in my signature. The purchase went smoothly and my springs arrived. They certainly looked like a nice set of springs. Here's a thread about my install.
Before buying the springs, I was told that the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were DIFFERENT springs. When I received my springs from them, I noticed the springs they sent me had the EXACT same part # as the Tacoma Springs. I called NWOR to inquire about the possibilty of receiving the wrong set of springs. They assured me that while the springs had the same "family" of part numbers, they were indeed different springs. Again, I was told that the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were different springs. I spoke with Sergio for the initial purchase and for most of my subsequent calls to NWOR.
They promised the springs would give 1.5" of lift in the front, which I got after the initial install. The rear springs were also listed as providing 1.5" of lift. I got about 3" of lift out of them, which made me a bit ass-high. After removing the factory center cone isolators, the rear dropped another 0.5" which reduced the rake and it looked good. I wanted some rake, but not a lot.
Their website says that the front springs will "carry the additional weight of an added winch bumper and eliminate the Tacoma's drooping front end look". This implies you can throw a winch bumper on the truck and not have it sag. I bought a Manik Grill guard from another forum member here shortly after installing my springs. With it installed, the front end drooped quite a bit during braking and made the front end kinda "swishy* over bumps. Not the kind of behavior I expected based on their description of the springs.
After a few months, I noticed the front end was quite a bit lower than it had been right after the install, so I took off the grill guard. I gained about 3/8" hieght from doing that. It put me back up over 1" of lift, but not up to 1.5" like it should be. I just measured my truck and it's sitting 7/8" higher in front than before the springs were installed. No where near 1.5" of lift as promised. The rear is still sitting right where it was when I installed the springs. so, now I'm sitting extremely ass-high with a mushy front end, made all that much worse since there is so much wieght pushing forward because of all the rake.
I've called NWOR a few times to ask them to send me replacements for the front springs and their only response has been for me to remove all my springs, put the old ones back on and send them in to be inspected. That's just not really an option since that's such an f'ing pain in the @ss to do for the driveway mechanic. I can't use a home spring compressor on the front springs. I need to take them into a shop that has a decent wall-mount or clamshell type springs compressor to dismantle the front coil-overs. Besides, all I want is replacement springs for the fronts.
I called NWOR right before starting this post and played dumb for a bit when I got a salesperson on the phone. I think his name was Bill. I asked him about the statement concerning the winch bumper and if the Tacoma and 4Runner springs were one in the same. This time, I was told that they are one in the same spring. I was also told that the winch bumper would definitely make the springs droop. So, after that I proceeded to explain my situation and was met again with a brick wall which included being told that the reason the rear was so much higher was that the rear springs were most likely installed incorrectly.
As for the front, I was told that the way I was measuring the height increase/decrease was incorrect. I was told that from the top of the rim to the fenderwell was not a valid measurement and that I needed to use the "offical" Toyota measuring process by measuring from the frame to the ground while parked on a level surface, etc. Whatever.... Maybe that's fine for non-IFS trucks. Also, if I removed all the springs and sent them in, they could have them inspected and blah blah blah, I would have to pay shipping both ways even if they found the springs to be bad and were to send me replacements. No thank you.
The point to all of this (sorry it's so long-winded and rambling, but I'm pissed off), is to warn others not to buy anything from NWOR. They lie about their products. And once they have your money, they don't give a ˟˟˟˟ about you or your problems. Personally, I have no problems with the rear springs, it's just the fronts I want replaced.
Thanks for listening. I'm going to be saving for SAW's like everyone told me to get in the first place. Live and learn.
Dr. Z
Last edited by Dr. Zhivago; 04-10-2003 at 03:26 PM.
04-10-2003, 03:17 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Thurston County WA State
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with you, Dr.Z. I purchased a set of Brake pads and shoes there last year since I mistakenly believed that my brakes were worn out. I forget how much I had paid for them, but they charged me a core charge for the old shoes. Well since I couldn't get a refund on the brake parts that I didn't need, I went ahead and installed them. When I returned to get my core charge money returned, The guy there, Chet, told me that they don't take core returns, and therefore would not refund my core charge. I have purchased other things from them- my SAW torsion bars, rear 1.5" lift add-a-leaves, and my vacuum gauge. I haven't purchased anything since and definitely won't again.
04-10-2003, 03:23 PM
#3
Wow, that is very informative Dr. Z.
I am sorry to hear that happen, and a good set of the SAW's will cure you right up.
This is one reason I don't have an ad in the Vendor section to them.
I have had my own experiences with them when I first got my 4Runner, and when I had the '90 truck.
I am ashamed that they are also in my state
I will never purchace anything from them.
Also feel free to post this in the Vendor Feed Back forum we have here so it will be near the top in there.
I am sorry to hear that happen, and a good set of the SAW's will cure you right up.
This is one reason I don't have an ad in the Vendor section to them.
I have had my own experiences with them when I first got my 4Runner, and when I had the '90 truck.
I am ashamed that they are also in my state
I will never purchace anything from them.
Also feel free to post this in the Vendor Feed Back forum we have here so it will be near the top in there.
04-10-2003, 03:49 PM
#6
Away
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Jayson,
It's not so much that they're being uncooperative that pisses me off, but that they are accusing me (and Jay, a factory trained MASTER Toyota Techician with 12+ years of experience) of installing the springs incorrectly. Which I KNOW for a fact that they are not.
Also the BS about me not measuring the lift properly really chaps my @ss. All things being equal, a change in distance between a "fixed" part of the body and a "Dynamic" part of the suspension IS a valid measurement on a IFS Truck, so F that! If that distance then changes over time, for instance it DECREASES, then the springs are sagging. It doesn't take Rocket Science to explain that.
Dr. Z
It's not so much that they're being uncooperative that pisses me off, but that they are accusing me (and Jay, a factory trained MASTER Toyota Techician with 12+ years of experience) of installing the springs incorrectly. Which I KNOW for a fact that they are not.
Also the BS about me not measuring the lift properly really chaps my @ss. All things being equal, a change in distance between a "fixed" part of the body and a "Dynamic" part of the suspension IS a valid measurement on a IFS Truck, so F that! If that distance then changes over time, for instance it DECREASES, then the springs are sagging. It doesn't take Rocket Science to explain that.
Dr. Z
Trending Topics
04-10-2003, 04:05 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DrZ....After your little bout with nwor. You should modify your mods at the bottom of your post. I dont know how nwor plans on staying in business with customer relations like that. The internet is a very powerful tool. Just a matter of time before it haunts them.
04-10-2003, 04:39 PM
#9
Away
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You know Zedex, I probably should do something to that effect, but I just don't know what exactly. I'll simmer a bit on that and figure something out. I'm open to suggestions. heh
Jayson, I'd love to borrow your
, but I'd rather let karma handle things for them...
Dr. Z
EDIT: There, I changed my sig.
Jayson, I'd love to borrow your
, but I'd rather let karma handle things for them...Dr. Z
EDIT: There, I changed my sig.
04-10-2003, 05:00 PM
#10
Away
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Btw, seafarinman, I forgot to acknowledge your post. I'd be pissed if I were you too. I am confident they will get what's coming to them for the way they practice business.
Dr. Z
Dr. Z
04-10-2003, 05:23 PM
#11
Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago
Alright, Corey. Thanks.
btw, I did take a peek at your website thread. You've been having "fun", NOT!
Peace!
Dr. Z
Alright, Corey. Thanks.
btw, I did take a peek at your website thread. You've been having "fun", NOT!
Peace!
Dr. Z
That's OK, I vote to not resign up with them when my time is up.
04-10-2003, 05:41 PM
#12
Contributing Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 7,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow Galen,
Sorry to hear that. I know I for one went to NWOR for some things based on your opinion. I'll be looking elsewhere, I sure don't need customer service headaches like that.
On a positve note, I can't say enough how much I appreciate the awesome help I've received from XtremeOff-Road in my recent front spring debacle!
Sorry to hear that. I know I for one went to NWOR for some things based on your opinion. I'll be looking elsewhere, I sure don't need customer service headaches like that.
On a positve note, I can't say enough how much I appreciate the awesome help I've received from XtremeOff-Road in my recent front spring debacle!
04-10-2003, 06:05 PM
#13
Away
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Tom,
I'm sorry that I ever recommended that you do any kind of business with them. At one point, I was really happy with them, but they certainly dropped the ball in my opinion.
Dr. Z
EDIT: I'll be talking to Mike when I order some SAW's
I'm sorry that I ever recommended that you do any kind of business with them. At one point, I was really happy with them, but they certainly dropped the ball in my opinion.
Dr. Z
EDIT: I'll be talking to Mike when I order some SAW's
04-10-2003, 06:13 PM
#14
Registered User
This is truly a bummer, and I really respect you saying hey, this is a bad deal, but I chose to take the risk.
As to the power of the web, they have been doing sketchy, and selling sketchy products for a long time. Sound the trumpet long and hard on this one, but know that it has been done before.
X-treme Mike, Scott and Rockstomper, Roger Brown, these three dudes go out of their way, and vend great products. On top of that, they are fellow wheelers who I have had the pleasure of giving my money to.
As to the power of the web, they have been doing sketchy, and selling sketchy products for a long time. Sound the trumpet long and hard on this one, but know that it has been done before.
X-treme Mike, Scott and Rockstomper, Roger Brown, these three dudes go out of their way, and vend great products. On top of that, they are fellow wheelers who I have had the pleasure of giving my money to.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GreatLakesGuy
The Classifieds GraveYard
8
09-04-2015 09:27 AM
