Speedy

I'm not sure how a 7th injector will help hross14? The injector is installed into the port on the supercharger. Since you don't have a supercharger I don't know where you'll put that injector.

mastacox

You can tune it and see what happens, don't expect monster increases though.

No, the motor operates in closed loop all the time unless you're at full throttle. Any fuel changes you try to make will be countered by the control system unless you use a URD AFR Sensor Calibrator.

DO you have the CEL because you removed the rear O2 sensor, or because you cat is bad?

For plain wideband, I think the Innovate Motorsports ones are the best. But if the PLX gauge can do wideband and OBD-II together, I would seriously consider that one (although it will be significantly more expensive).

Here is the Innovate combo I have: Standalone Gauge Kit, LC-1 and XD-16- $329

Here is an option if you don't want the expensive XD-16 gauge: DB-Blue Gauge / LC-1 Kit- $229

hross14

i wouldnt add the 7th injector Speedy until i went SC.

Mastcox--I do plan on tuning it and see what happens--i dont think much will--maybe another 15-20 if i am lucky--and i would live with that. If I could

However, when I do floor it--you can feel the slight bump in power....

mt_goat

So you're wanting to advance the timing aren't you? Most of us, maybe all of us with a blower, are taking timing out, retarding to take out ping. Mostly in the low rpm w/boost range. The ECU does a nice job of advancing the timing. Using the knock sensors (above 3000 rpms) it advances the timing until it detects knock and then backs off slightly. I doubt you'd be able to improve on that variable tuning of the timing. Having high compression will make knocking worse too.

Texas_Ace

I agree, the stock system will advance timing till it senses knock and then back it off. So you can't advance it any further anyways.

hross14

Guys, if the Knock sensors dont come on till 3000 rpms then that doesnt work for me. Most of my driving is done in the 3000 and below range.

Its also important to remember that as you increase duration, lift, and compression--you need more timing to make pressure in the cylinder. Thats why modified motor dial in more initial timing. I will run it on a chassis dyno and dial it in. Maybe we might all be surprised?

AND a FUN FACT--We could not degree my cams when we were building the engine.......but some older engines can be off as much as 8 degrees (Cam to Crank Relation) from the factory!!!!! It makes a world of difference. It would of been nice to dial in my cams but it was just to complicated.

I read somewhere that each cam scissor tooth is worth 3 degrees--so you would make adjustable timing belt gears--advance the intake ~1.5 degrees and then you would have 1.5 degrees advance on the exhaust---you get the picture.......

So let see what happens--thanks for the help guys--it was the computer theory i was most worried about--engines are easy HHaaaa

mt_goat

Sounds something like my BMW VANOS engine (timing chains though, not belts): http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/vanos.htm

hross14

I am talking about the fixed scissor gears for our cams. If you advance/retard the intake cam via the timing belt gear XX degrees then retard/advance the exhaust camshaft you come up with a net valve for the exhaust cam. For example:

1. Advance intake cam via timing belt gear 1 degree
2. Then advance/retard the exhaust cam via the scissor gear (=3 degrees)
3. Your net exhaust cam advance would be 4 degrees and retarded 2 degrees.

See what i am getting at here--we could theoretically play with cam timing in relation to the crank.

Think about this--A Jag AJ16 (4 liter) engine uses the same cam profile for this motor whether it is Supercharged or NA. The only difference is the cams are timed differently.

hross14

This kind of 3.4 motor stuff would be great to condense into a wiki or something like that--

This motor stuff i know through messing with motors prior to computers and such...

The basic premise is the same for all motors--How much can you make it SUCK. More it sucks--the more power you get

mt_goat

That's a good way of looking at it. Makes you wonder about all the air filter and intake hype to allow it to breath better. The engine is a powerful positive displacement vacuum pump, it will suck in the air though the stock air filter just fine.

hross14

Yeah, i would say so--I run stock--i do have the deck plate mod ....but hey--the air box was out when i did the motor so.....

Speedy

On the air thing...

I dyno tested several a few years ago along with the deck plate mod. The figures are on my site somewhere, but getting a good air filter and the deck plate mod was good for about 10HP in back to back runs if memory serves.

I also gained about 5HP on my Challenger doing a cold air intake on that vehicle in back to back dyno runs over stock. I think picked up a few more ponies doing a cat back exhaust.

The more air you can get in and out of a motor the better it'll run.

mt_goat

Yeah I guess, probably more important at dyno-type rpms though.

I still get over 10 psi boost with the stock filter and no deck plate mod.

Speedy

I have the stock air filter in mine too, although I do have the deck plate and ISR mods. I usually see the same...10.5psi although in the cold air I've seen 11psi.

Texas_Ace

Also note that you have a 2.2 pulley and he has a 2.1. I wounder why you get differnt boost levels?

mastacox

I get about 7 psi max here with a 2.2" pulley, deckplate, and Amsoil TS foam filter; but I live at 7000ft asl. IIRC in Tucson I could get about 9psi (2400ft asl).

I would call the 2.2" pulley a 9psi pulley, and the 2.1" pulley 12psi. Not sure what accounts for Dale's discrepancy though...

Speedy

I dunno. Maybe I got a "defective" 2.2" pulley or maybe my blower is just more efficient?

mt_goat

My engine sucks harder, the SCer can't keep up.

hross14

Guys--Speedy--Et al......i think we should really look into playing with the cam teeth. Talked to the Motor Gurus Friday and though Asian motors usually have Decent cam specs--there is a difference between SC cams and N/A cams. The lobe separation is different....and other such things.\

SO--is there anyway we can find out the actual cam specs. Then i will talk to the guys and see what they think.

We would need basically everything about them. We may be horsepower penalizing ourselves. From what i was told--it looks SC'er would be need about ~6-8 degrees more lobe separation and NA'ers about ~4.

Maybe we could pitch in and find a crashed motor to play with........

Speedy

I'm not sure it'd be worth it on this motor. Yes, a specialized supercharger cam will give you more power. It basically holds the intake valve open a bit longer to allow the blower to push more air into the cylinder.

However, I'm already at about 300HP on this engine. I'm not sure more is really prudent here. The supercharger cam may add another 25HP or so. It would be interesting to see. However, the cam would have to be designed/tested/ground/etc. Could get quite pricey for an out of production motor.

I thought there was a guy on this site that offered cams for the 3.4L?