TrackRunner

That point made me sad as well Mark. I have the same setup as a lot of guys on this board who seem to have no problem spinning their tires from a dead stop. I can only spin them if it's raining outside The truck def. has more power over stock, but it doesn't have the low end that everyone else seems to have. I'm at a total loss of what it could be.

Speedy

I don't want to give the wrong impression on my realized performance. Mine won't boil the tires every time I accelerate hard. They will spin, but only a little. Keep in mind I also have the TrueTrac installed. If I'm turning out of a side street at the same time I accelerate they'll spin pretty easy.

Before the SC, I couldn't spin the tires at all. Even if I held the brake. Now when I hold the brake they'll light up pretty good.

TrackRunner

Even a little wheel spin or "chirp" would be nice. My truck isn't really close to that. QSVeilside has the TRD 7th Injector kit with fuel upgrades and a 2.1" pulley and can smoke em' half way through second gear. Now that would be sweet! (sorry for the name droppin qsv, but you have a sick runner!) I'm going to work with my mechanic later this week to see if we can figure out what's going on. I will report back if we find something good.

Weasy2k

^ you gotta understand that your location is dependent on how much power your truck can make...as much as 20hp or more...dense hot air will really suck the power out of the engine. LA in that heat...ugh

Greedy

I just found out that your wheel/tire combo makes a huge difference. The skinny, light stock tires and wheels are realitivatley easy to break loose compared to aftermarket rims and 32's or 33's. I just switched back to my stock set-up while my new set-up got here in the mail and I am chirping slamming into third sometimes..

mt_goat

Yeah they used to tune the A/F by looking at EGT so for that purpose, yes, using the wideband is much better. But there are other reasons for knowing your EGT besides tuning your A/F.

Speedy

True. However, I find it very unlikely that if running a proper AFR that the EGTs will be out of line. I may add one later.

midiwall

You're still thinking "An EGT gauge only gives me a way to tune for power".

It also gives you a way to know how hard the engine's working, and is a great early-warning detector for real trouble...

• When I see my EGT hitting 1250* while climbing a 1/4 mile long 11% grade at 40mph, something's up.
• When I see my EGT spike VERY quickly when accelerating from 30->60mph, something's up.
• When I see my 30mph cruise EGT at 1100*, something's up.

When the latest nightmare to hit my truck happened... It was the EGT that told me something's up. NOT the A/FR.

When the nightmare a year ago happened... It was the EGT that told me something's up, not the A/FR.


Dude... you've dropped a lot of money and time into that motor. An EGT gauge is about $100 and could save you THOUSANDS of dollars. You've said that you like gauges, you should add this.

Speedy

Good points. If the AFR is correct, meaning the proper amount of air and fuel is running through the motor, how would EGTs be out of line? I thought if it's lean, then EGTs can be high or if it's rich enough for fuel to burn in the manifolds you also get high EGTs. Maybe I'm not understanding some piece here. In my experience with working on motorcycles we've never fooled with EGT, but strictly AFR and on the bike we shoot for a 13:1 AFR. On SportRunner I'll be going richer, obviously, to something around 11.8 or so at WOT which the stock ECM is doing all by itself thus far.

Also, why wasn't this issue brought to light over the past 3 months when I was installing all of the gauges and detailing my progress and plans here as well as a blog on the front page of my site? I remember some talk of an EGT gauge, but when I mentioned monitoring AFRs instead, you didn't really seem to have such a strong opinion on the matter.

The gauge isn't the big deal for me. It's getting the bung installed. I had a helluva time with the wide band probe, as you should remember, so I'm gun shy about having exhaust shops install bungs. I'm also looking at those DT headers in the group buy over on CT as well.

If I do the EGT probe down the road, where does the sender go?

midiwall

You're still comparing EGT to A/FR as related to a MAX EGT, or to a temp that would be deemed "too high" overall. That's not what I said above. In all the examples I gave above, my A/FRs were showing "well within the bounds of okie-dokie".


Dude, you started this thread at the end of March and it was a spinoff of another thread (or five) at a time when you were starting a new thread about once a day.

I'm pretty sure that you and I had gone around about this before in one of those other threads. I have NEVER believed in A/FR for anything outside of "oh, it looks like the engine is running". I've had this stance for years now. I pretty much gave up pushing the issue with you months ago, I only brought it up now 'cause you seem to be excited as to how rich you're running without mods. My original point, as you've echoed, is that running rich WILL push your EGTs up. As I said before, I'm walking proof of this, and what can happen as an end result.


4" down the pipe from the block, at the cylinder that's the farthest from the fuel feed. because of how the fuel rail works, the front cylinder on either side is fine. The driver's side usually gets the nod 'cause of the ease of running cable.

midiwall

I missed a lot of this chirp side thread...

Johnny, (and TR) you guys know what's in my engine, and TruTrac or not, I should dern well be able to smoke these things.

Gregg - good point, but still.

Speedy

I think there lies our difference. Tuning bikes is ALL about AFRs. I'm coming into tuning cars at a time when technology is pretty easy to come by and for reasonable prices. Narrow band sensors are worthless, and just show the engine running. Wide band are an entirely different ball game. We'll just have to both do our own thing in that regard.

I'm not running "rich" without mods. I'm running where most people tune their cars to run WITH mods. If that continues to be the case as my ECM adjusts to the SC, I'd say that's surprising based on what I've read from everyone else.

Ok, so on the 3.4L motor this is where? I have one tube coming from each side of the motor that crosses over the tranny behind the motor, and connects to a Y pipe that comes down the passenger side. I do not have a separate tube for each cylinder on my 2002 4Runner manifold.

midiwall

Again, I'm not talking about tuning; I'm talking about forecasting failure and burn efficiency... But that's okay. I'm out of this side of the conversation. Maybe someone else can try...


This will be a "fun task" with the stock manifolds. You'll need to drill through that pig iron and get a threaded bung in there.

You want to be at a spot that's 4-6" down from a single cylinder, you'll need to line it up as best you can. Don't put it in the down tube, it's too far away from the cylinder. It's more important to be closer to the block than in the exhaust path of a specific cylinder.

When you set the probe depth, the tip should be in the middle of the exhaust path. Too close to either side can throw off your temp readings by 200* or more.

Speedy

We're probably starting to split hairs here. I'm not talking about using EGTs to tune with. I'm asking this questions legitimately, so don't take it as my being a smart ass. How are EGTs better than AFRs when talking burn efficiency? I'm just not grasping that concept. I do know that running in the 11.5 - 11.8 range under boost is where you wanna be for a 4Runner. 12.0 if you wanna eeek every ounce of power out, but I'd rather be on the safe side.

Remember my manifolds are those new tube type ones. They're not the heavy cast iron that you have. I can barely see where they go into the block. Which cylinder is best? Drivers side closest to the front of the motor between the first and second exhaust ports in the block?

Sorry to be so dense about this, but it's a totally new concept to me.

mokai

This is a very informational thread, thanks..I just put an S/C on my truck and am installing the URD 7th kit on Saturday and it has been great to read through this..A friend of mine who is a mechanic is going to help me with the install..The cool part is that we get to use his shop to do it..Ill let you know how it goes..

Speedy

What are your AFRs now? Are they the same as mine or leaner?

mokai

I do not have the wide band air fuel ratio kit on yet so I dont know..We are going to put that on first so we can check it out before we do the 7th kit and then see the difference..

Speedy

Good idea. I'm curious is anyone else's ends up like mine after a SC install.

I'm gonna go out one night after work on some lonely stretch of highway and do some video taping and data logging of WOT runs with the deck plate closed. Then I'll open the deck plate, drive it for a few days, and do the same video and data logging to see if there's any difference there.

I've got about 200 miles on the setup now and the LG/HRPM ping seems to have diminished but I still hear it slightly when lugging up hills in OD.

Then I'll do it again after adding the 2.2" pulley.

Then I'll move to the URD 7th. From the looks of things I'm not gonna need to install the fuel pump.

mokai

But when you add the 7th injector there will be a higher demand for fuel..Just something to consider..

Speedy

I'm currently at 11.2 - 11.8 AFR at WOT with an all stock fuel system. With AFRs like that, I can't imagine adding 2 more pounds of boost with the 2.2" pulley taxing the stock fuel pump with an add'l injector. I doubt the 7th will even have much of a duty cycle. I could be completely off here, that's why I'll run several tests to make sure.

I'm starting to wonder if Toyota beefed up the fuel systems in later models.