ewarnerusa

I had the scariest moments I've ever had driving this weekend. I took the dogs up to the Tizer Lakes trailhead to take a hike and snowboard down. The drive up was fine easy 4wd hi driving. Just a couple of inches of fresh snow on top of the forest service road. But the slow driving uphill was deceptive because it was the new snow on top of frozen mud/ice below. So coming down on the first steep downhill I lost complete control. Brakes did nothing, no ABS help (why was that??), no 4wd low help. It was just a free-fall slide, kind of like skiing with very dull edges with my truck. Anyways, I survived the "controlled" slide down the road with a rocky bank on the right and boulders on the left and around a corner without having to intensionally crash it into the bank. I had slid for about 100 feet with about another 70-100 feet to go. That scared the sheet out of me, i've never lost complete control like that. I decided that once the truck was stopped, I was throwing my chains on. no more monkeying around. But that's not the end of it....

I was the only vehicle up there besides two tow rigs with snowmobiles. And they left before me. So I figure I'm the only one up there so I'm fine stopped in the middle of the road. But I'm stopped in the middle of that trecherous bobsled track/road putting my chains on the rear tires. I figured I needed stopping ability more than steering for going downhill, so I put them on the rear. I had one on, and was in the process of latching the inside chain of the other tire when I hear "LOOK OUT!!!". I scramble out from under the truck to see another older toyota truck careening down the same stretch of road that I'm on! Headed directly for me! I thought fast and ran around my truck into the driver's seat, pull the brake and let it start to roll down, find the key, throw it in the ignition, fire it up so i can steer, and start back down the damn hill that I can't control myself on anyway. But just the one chain made a difference, so I could easily stop at the bottom. In the meantime, the guy behind me intensionally put his front end into the bank so he could stop. No harm done, thankfully. he was a nice guy and we chatted about how freaking scary that was for a bit. apparently he lives up there, so that's why he had no tracks going up and I didn't know he was there. We've got some crazy folks living in the deep woods here in Montana....

Anyways, chains on the back for going downhill and on the front for going up hill!! I have participated in alot of threads here about just where a pair of chains should go on a 4x4. I always say put them on the front, but I was convinced by others that if you were going downhill you would want them on the back so you could stop without the back end swinging around on you. I could stop easily after putting both chains on the rear tires, and there were several more downhills after that. I took a nice photo with the chains on with fresh snow falling, maybe I'll post it later since I don't have it here. Careful out there!!!

GRNTACO

WOW. You were lucky and to not get hit by the other runaway.

I had the same experiance last year on a FSR here in Washington. Like you it was easy going up but the down was scary. I had ditch on the right and 300' bank on the left. I was in 4lo and the compression caused all 4 tires to slide and I could feel the speed pick up :cry: I tried for the ditch but the road had ice ruts which kept me from the ditch and bank, thank god. I went atleast 100' before hitting a spot that the sun had been shining on causing my tires to break through and stop me :cry:

This year I knew what to look for and avoided it. I hope you do the same because I think you get only one lucky break like this.

ewarnerusa

no doubt..... my 4low caused the initial traction loss, too. scary!

cubuff4runner

I had a similar thing happen to me a couple of years ago on a 4x4\dirt road. I came over the top of the hill in 4 low and started to descend and I started to slide. The road was a strait shot for about 50 yards and then it made a sharp turn with about a 30 ft drop. I couldn’t slow down and about 10-15 yards before the turn a Suzuki Samurai came around the curve and I hit it. I have never been so thankful to hit another vehicle before. Needless to say the guy and his wife were pissed. He was yelling at me telling me I was going to fast I tried explaining and he wouldn’t listen. He got out of the vehicle to see the damage and fell flat on his face. I tried to swap insurance info with him but he refused. All he kept doing was cussing at me with his 4 year old in the back seat. I got back in my vehicle and watched him try to make it up the hill, he only made it about 10 feet. I just left with a small dent and no damage to his.

My99

Sounds like quite a bit of fun you had. Sounds kinda like my attempt at a steep snow covered driveway a couple weeks ago that nearly resulted in a win by the brick mailbox.

You say your ABS wasn't working, i'm curious to know how fast you were going. I know my ABS doesn't work if going below about 10mph. And I've never really tried my ABS in low 4.

cubuff4runner

My abs didn't work because I didn't have it. I was in my 88 4Runner.

ewarnerusa

I have had the abs work in 4low before, but the 10mph thing sounds like the cause. I did not know there was such a thing, but it would make sense if that is what was happening.

ewarnerusa

Here's the pic I was talking about. I like it, I'm switching my sig link to the full size version of it.

User 051420

Your ABS probably worked for a VERY SHORT period of time. Once all 4 of your tires locked up the ABS sensed that your vehicle had completely stopped, thus no more ABS. I bet if you had time to think about letting off the brakes a tiny bit, and then re-applying VERY GENTLY, the ABS would try to work.

That is the biggest thing I'm afraid of offroad. Losing control on a hill!

GRNTACO

I thought the ABS only worked over at a certain mph??

User 051420

I'll have to test that tonight. HAHA.
But seriously though. How fast were you sliding? I'm pretty sure I've managed to have my ABS work under 10mph. Maybe not.

My99

Where did you get that info from?

User 051420

From my own experiences.
How else would the ABS know when to stop? When all the tires stop turning I would guess. I doubt the ABS has a sensor for speed without using the tires as a reference.

Maybe I'm entirely wrong, but this is just what I've noticed and deduced.

My99

Well, I'm definitely not an expert on how the ABS works, and not discounting what you say. Just wanted to know if what you stated was fact or opinion. As I understand it, ABS senses when one wheel locks up and immediately releases this wheel. Even on a slick surface, not all 4 wheels will lock up at EXACTLY the same time (miliseconds). However, at speeds of below 10mph-ish, I could see where your theory would hold water, because at this speed it is possible to apply full brake power and have the vehicle stop within a finite amount of distance, and thus the ABS would not kick in.

Aside from all this theory, I've found it seems I can slow down much faster if I keep ABS from kicking in. Once ABS kicks in, my stopping distance (on snow anyway, never used it on dry ground seems to increase by about 20-30% guarranteed. Perhaps that's just my perception.

User 051420

I think you are right. I can understand your longer stopping distances too. The whole idea of ABS is so that you can brake, and remain under control. If your brakes locked up, you couldn't steer very well (4 wheels skidding). When the ABS works, it slows you "slower" if you will, and affords you a little bit of control.

For the guy that actually experienced this: Have you tried your ABS elsewhere? Maybe the rest of us are wasting our time thinking about how it works when your system is actually not working, or you weren't going fast enough.

ewarnerusa

I have tried my ABS elsewhere, too. when driving on completely snow covered roads, I have noticed it work when I try to lock them all up, and also not work. I was with a friend who also has a newer tacoma and we were trying to decide if the ABS works in 4low. We decided that it does. I think I was sliding at under 10mph. I didn't notice if the speedometer said 0 mph while I was sliding because I was already locked up! I have had it kick in at the end of the alley behind my house, and I think I was probably going under 10 mph when that happened. But I honestly don't know the logic of why it works sometimes and not other times.

I have also noticed my stopping distance increase if the ABS is doing its thing. I try to no let it kick in if I want to stop under complete control.

ewarnerusa

I tried out the ABS today under 10 mph and it worked. So maybe the all four wheels already stopped theory is true? Or it has something to do with 4low, because I was just in 2hi thismorning.

Highland Runner

I think ABS can actually cause more problems in snow/ice situations. It seems like when you start sliding ABS kicks in turning the brakes off and letting you pick up speed. My wife and I both have idetincal tires on our Runners (BFG AT/KO's). I was up and down the steep hill by our house 3-4 times in the snow last Fri. When she left for work I followed to make sure she made it to the plowed road. Her ABS had her out of control in no time, sliding off the road twice. I got in her car and tried to drive down, but coudn't control it either. I ended up driving her to work with zero problems and no ABS.
My neighbor came down out of control in his Durango-ABS was also kicked in. He later told us he thought he was going to hit us, but I had sped up to get out of his way like ewarnerusa did.
I have had 3 minor incidents involving ABS in work vehicles. I was going 5-10 MPH and slid down hill until I hit dry ground or other vehicles to stop. All the time with the brake pedal pushed to the floor. I hate ABS.
I would like to rig a switch to turn ABS off during snow driving. Can this be done without throwing check engine lights? From my experience ABS works at all speeds. I always hit the brakes first thing to see how slick the roads are during snow/ice. This is while going 5-10 MPH and can hear that buzzing.

tenfourtyeight

I agree with the line in Toy283's sig.

Mulkey

I have a 2000 and was in some snow last week. My brakes behave differently in AWD or 4WD. They made some strange noises on the backroads covered with 5-8 inches of fresh snow. They felt like it was metal to metal when I would lock them up??????? Trying to explain this to the Toyota stealership was useless. They work fine in 2WD but the other day was ˟˟˟˟ up. Especially on a single lane mtn. road.