It also depends on the dealership you go to. Again sorry you had a lemon that hurt your trust in Toyota, I would prob be turned off somewhat as well. (I was by Honda b/c of my experience, so I guess we are in similar situation just different manufacturers.)
-Hearing stories like yours does scare me a little about upgrading our 4runner even though its been a great vehicle. (Because we need more space with 2 kids in car seats, a double stroller, etc.)
I hope your Dodge treats you better, hopefully you wont have one that eats trannies for lunch

 

Gosh Unhappy, I enjoyed your solutions to our problems over the years. They were always dead on.

I just hope you don't become "real unhappy" after a few years with that new dodge.

 

I thought about getting a small trailer, but that doesnt really help out the issue of pulling a 3500 lb (unloaded) boat/trailer, plus then i would have to store the trailer, taking up even more room. As for gas mileage, the 4Runner gets about 18-20 mpg, and with a 18 gallon tank (which only 15 gallons is useable for some retarded reason), I typically find myself needing gas every 250-275 miles. I absolutely, positively HATE this. I could go 325 miles per tank with my Jeep wrangler on 35s (it could hold 19-20 gallons). My cherokee was the same, 325-350ish (which btw, I bought for $9500, it was an '00 with 43k miles and power everything with 4wd. Cherokees regularly get 200k+ miles as well with no major maintenance, they just arent as plush as the 4Runner). I have done much research on mpg for 1/2 ton trucks, and the chevy 5.3L consistently gets 17-21 mpg. My dad has a 4.8L chevy v8 and he gets 20-22 mpg regularly, not to mention the 34 gallon tank. It wouldnt even bother me to sacrifice a couple mpgs for tank being twice as large. I hate driving from Nashville to Memphis and needing a fill up.

And when I am comparing cost versus what you get, I am comparing similar mileage and year vehicles. Certainly you can find 96-99s with mid-mileage $10kish. But thats not what mine is worth.

But lets compare a '01 4Runner Sport, 6cyl auto 4wd with 65k miles versus a '01 Chevy ext cab with 5.3L v8 and z71 offroad package with same mileage. I have done extensive researching prices within 200 miles of my zip code over the past 4-6 weeks, and the 4runners seem to be selling for right at the same price, give or take $19k for either vehicle. Now, keeping in mind that everyone has different needs, the chevy is more versatile and useful,TO ME, for the same $$.

I do like the 4runner, its been great - but I bought it at a different point in my life. If I had an older one that was worth quite a bit less, I might be inclined to hold on to it. I do however, think we may return to the Toyota scene in a couple years. I really like the Sequoia, and when we decide to have rugrats, we might into getting one.

Thanks for all the good input though. I appreciate it.

 

I've got the 6 speed NV5600 tranny, pretty much proven as indestructable and warranteed for 7/70. Among the various niceties, the CTD also gets a few MPG better than the 4Runner while empty, and a lot more MPG while towing. The 34 gallon tank it pretty nice, going well over 600 miles between fillups. It really screws up the whole get-fuel-and-relieve-bladder synchonization, it goes much farther than I can.

For many years, I thought the only thing Chrysler ever did right was put the word 'Dodge' on the front of the truck that's coming at you. With the 2003 model, they made a huge leap in design, pulled their heads out and built a strong vehicle with lots of goodies like big-ass 4 wheel disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, very stiff hydroformed frame, common rail diesel, the list goes on. Even though it says Dodge, this is an amazing truck.

They are not perfect. The 03-05 CTDs have two weak points: the lift pump and driveshaft u-joints, both of which are also warranteed for 7/70.

 

Right on!!!

 

I understand what you are saying, bu tyou might want to restate it a little to say that the gas tank size is not adequate. Not that the gas mileage is poor.

Also, was the Tundra not enough for you? I just would not purchase a Chevy product period unless it was from the 60's or 70's I see that Tundra's are about the same price for a 2003 model as the ones you stated.

Unhappy,
Good thing you got one of those NV trannies. A have heard horror stories about some of the auto trannies behind those AT in the Dodge trucks.

I think for my family it doesnt matter what you look at, if it will hold 7+ people gas mileage is going to suck! The debate continues on different vehicles for diff reasons. (I still hold to 80 or 100 series LC's. And keep my eyes peeled for one.) Our 97 was a good deal when we bought it 3.5 yrs ago for $17K @ 65K miles. Now I am looking at selling or no for $9K for it w/135K miles. To change into something with a little more room. And it has to haveb the same dependability that we have learned to depend on from our 4runner. (Had to replace a door lock mechanism in the driver door and the ignition switch since we have owned it. Other than the usual maint.)

 

Anybody suggesting a Titan needs to do a little research. www.carsurvey.org

 

Thought that was going to be a great page, then saw how many reviews it has for the Titan (3) and Landcruiser (8) which was for a 98 the most out of any other year listed.

Find a sight that actually has some pull and input. Edmunds is decent on some vehicles. Just read through them.

 

I have to agree to avoid the Titan. Don't have a link, but the April Consumer Reports auto issue lists the Titan as the LEAST reliable pickup (yes worse than GM, Dodge and Ford...). Nissan has struggled with all of there full-size stuff, as the Armada and QX56 are the least reliable full-size SUV's also. I would not hesitate to buy a 350Z or G35, but I would avoid their BIG stuff.

If you want a reliable full-size pickup, there is only one choice--Tundra.

hupptoy

 

IMO 1/2 truck are no more usefull for doing regular towing than my 92 22RE, why...the drivetrain. Its a 1/2 ton... they have notoriously weak trannys and rearends. If you are considering upgrading get a 3/4 truck. They were designed for what you want to do. The other thing to consider is vehicle wheelbase. If you plan to do a lot of towing its reccommended you have a WB longer than the trailer, or as long as you can get. 4runners just dont have it at 104", not enough to do safe towing, espically if you tow in winter.

IMO the best rig out there for towing is the cummins, any of them from 98+, the best ones being the H.O.s 00-02 with a six-speed manual, or any 03+ with a six speed. If you dont tow as often or as much then an auto is okay, but for serious towing you need a 6speed. And 3/4 rigs ride pretty nice these days, my dads 06 cummins rides pretty sweet...considering it has a SFA.

I plan to get a cummins as soon as I can jutify it. I will still keep the 92 as a DD and trail rig, but will use the cummins to tow the toy to the trail...something about 325hp vs 117....

If you dont want a diesel rig, still get a 3/4...And IMO if you want a gas engine its really hard to bead a 6.0L chevy 3/4...best ride, good engine/tranny combo...

best of luck...

 

I am going to have to agree with 4x4nala. We have a Ranger that just sucks when it comes to hauling stuff. Drivetrain is poor, 4WD doesn't work very well when things are in the back, and it sucks teh gas.

Now, not being a Chevy fan (I grew up with a Ford family, and will always be a loyal Ford fan) I would have to say that what you are picking out is versatile. I was very impressed with the 01 Silverados down at Dollar Rent a Car when my parents worked there. They were comfortable, they hauled things well, and they had some power. I never drove them, but when you ride with my dad, you get a sense of those things because he tells you. That, and you could feel it anyway when we were hauling my desk and other stuff. My desk weighs close to 200 pounds, and the other stuff we had was close to another 500 pounds. It visually weighed down the truck, but the engine didn't tell a difference.

I would have to agree with the person that said get a Ford F-X50. We owned a 1993 Ford F-250 at one time, and we did everything with it. We hauled boats, cars, washing machines, fire places, beds, desks, couches, recliner chairs, wood, garbage, everything. It was an automatic, but it was probably the best transmission in the world. That truck had literally NO problems with it. 4 wheeling was excelent, and never once did we get stuck anywhere. Then again, my dad is a pro when it comes to off road.

The F-150 that we have now needs a tune up, and we haven't really done a whole lot with it. It has been to town twice, but before that, it looks like it did quite a bit. My dad says the transmission is very good in it, and that it has a lot of power for a 1/2 ton pickup.

Obviously it sounds like your heart is set on the Chev, but you have to go with something better then that man .

 

lllateralus,
when u said "If you must get an american truck, get an F-x50. (I have a 97 F150 4X4 4.6 that has treated me just like a toyota for 103K miles)"
Have u replaced the Intake Manifold Gasket yet? My dad had a 97 F150 4.6 V6, 5 speed and the intake manifold gasket went out around 110,000 leaking water into the cylinders and bent a rod. He had to completely replace the engine ($$$). He has been a loyal Ford owner for a long time, and Ford knowing about the problem and about his record with Ford's, the didn't do Jack S***. So u might want to replace that gasket before its too late! Other than that his truck was awesome to him....o ya and around 175,000 the tranny started making metal.

 

Not unlike the Titan, the Tundra has lots of defects as well (almost a Tondra of problems), ever try to use the brakes on one? Gotta love the vibrations and loose tail. And how about those ball joints?

What is even more remarkable is that Toyota seems to encourage its dealers to feign knowledge of any problems if the vehicle is still under warranty. Of course, once out of warranty, there is a $3000 solution.

 

Unhappyy99,
I understand that you had a bad luck with your 4Runner.
However, I also think that any car or truck made by any car manufacturer can be a “lemon”. And I am sorry that it did happen to you with 4Runner.
I am not sure if want to hear it from me but my 4Runner is by far the best vehicle I had (in my past I had Chevy Blazer 4x4 (POS), Jeep Cherokee (4x4) and Ford Explorer 4x4 (ford was the best quality out of those three). If I would list all the problems I had with each of those truck this post would be 10 time longer. Upsetting part was that 90% of those problems were very well known but never acknowledge by automakers and also those problems were very significant and costly.
My 4Runner is 10 years old now and has around 100K on it. I had it for last 8 years (second owner).
In that time I changed a battery (once), timing belt (once) and got set of tires (once). Totaling about $750.00. In addition, regular oil, filters and spark plug changes of course.

Here is to summarize use of my 4Runner:
I do pull boat (around 3000 Lbs) 100 miles one-way to the lake in the summer time in Texas heat and I still have original brake pads and rotors. Since I do not have a truck bed, I bought a small trailer (5x8) that I pull as well. I usually use trailer to haul hinting stands, gravel, dirt etc.
I also use 4runner off road a lot (I am hunter) as well as a on a long trips with family.
The only thing I can say is my 4Runner is amazing truck and never let me down.

I wish you good luck with your new Dodge. Nevertheless, I am sure that you do not have to dig to deep to know that Toyota still is the benchmark of Quality for all today’s auto manufactures.

Sorry for a long post.

 

My 87 4Runner 22re/5sp was the best vehicle on the planet, IMO. I know where it is today and I would buy it back in a heartbeat if it could meet my needs.

I didn't have bad luck with my 99. Its just one of about 250,000 4Runners whos problems are due to inherent poor design and assembly, which continues today in various Toyotas. Once I got past the standard set of factory defects, it wasn't a bad vehicle except when towing. The suspension was designed to cruise speed bumps at the mall rather than pull 4000lbs.

When choosing a car nowadays, it's no longer a matter of picking the manufacturer you love, but picking the problems you are willing to deal with.

On another note, why do you all apologize for Toyota? Were you all somehow involved in design/assembly? If so, give me your address and I'll come over and kick you in the groin.

 

I do not see how you can think that “we” are apologizing for Toyota.
IMO most the people here just sharing theirs experiences and knowledge about Toyotas.


I think this is a right time for you to join “Dodge” forum.

 

my .02 probably doesn't count for much, but i had a 91 2wd toyota. It had 268k miles when i sold it. I bought a 98 chevy 1/2 ton standard cab. What a mistake. 2 transmissions, probably $4k in other repairs in only 60k miles. sold that piece and got a 92 4runner.

I wouldn't buy a 4runner or toyota truck (taco or mini) if i wanted to tow anything larger than a utilitity trailer. If i wanted to tow some toys like a boat or whatever, i'd get a 3/4 or 1 ton Ford. 1/2 ton pickups like the f-150 and chevy 1500 are a waste. You have to go at least 3/4 ton to get any good utility out of them.

 

My uncle has a big boat. He got one of these to tow it: http://www.sportchassis.com/

At the family reunion he showed up with a 17ft john boat in tow

 

Thanks for all the input everyone. Luckily, since I am looking in the '01-'02 range, then the Titan is out.

I know its tough when people make posts like I did. Its easy to get into the Ford versus Chevy versus Dodge versus Toyta debate, and then the 1/2 versus 3/4, etc etc.

My personal opinion is that many vehicles produced in the late 90's until now are decently made. All manufactuers have problems, all vehicles have a strong point.

If you could take the cummins engine (dodge) with the allison tranny(chevy), toss in the ford body and toyota reliability, there would be no question as to which vehicle to buy.

I have a 92 Chevy silverado in my driveway. My dad bought it new, and he worked out of it. It currently has 215k miles, and has never had any major problems. I think he has replaced the water pump, and of course brake maintenance, and other standard preventative maintenance, but its been an absolutely wonderful vehicle. I know there are lemons. I know things break, but I think that if you take care of a vehicle like it should be taken care of, then it will have a much longer life span.

I would not hesitate to hop in any ford/chevy/dodge/toyota truck made in the past 6-8 years. I think that properly maintained, the american have similar reliability, and the toyota a little bit better. But there is no disputing the fact that the american trucks are just bigger and more powerful than the Tundra, its just a trade off. I am personally just a Chevy fan. The american trucks seem to be cheaper than the Toyota's, and the chevy's dont sit as high, plus have more room in the ext. cab than the ford or dodge. They also seem to get better gas mileage.

1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton is a big issue. I think I will go 1/2 ton and for me it should be fine. I really want the diesel, but at a $6k-$7k price difference, is it worth it? I will be towing a 5k load 2-3 times a summer at a distance of up to 200 miles. Other than that I will be towing my boat a distance of 4 miles. The 4Runner could probably satisfy this need, however, I like the additional power and wheelbase from the truck (which go along with safety). Not to mention, i am in the middle of remodeling my house, and could use a truck on a semi-daily basis. I use my dad's currently, but I dont need that many vehicles. Wife has a dd, we have a 93 corolla, my dad's truck and the 4Runner in our driveway, along with our boat. Just too much stuff. If I were towing daily, or weekly, heavy loads, and long distances, I think the diesel would be appropriate, but I just dont see myself making back the additional cost versus usage, esp when I have a 13 year old Toyota that gets 30+ mpg which is my dd. No matter which way you look at it, its more cost effective to drive the corolla. And if I have a 4-5 year old truck to drive a couple days a week and then some light-duty towing, then I should be set. I dont think the diesel would pay itself off for me. Not to mention that I have read rumors of the new Tundra having a diesel option, so in 3-4 years I might find reason to "upgrade".

Anyways, thanks for all the good discussion. If I won the lottery, I would buy a 2006 F250, and do a cummins and allison swap, and hire myself a toyota engineer to take care of it....but somehow, I dont think the odds are good

 

I WANT ONE

We have a 92 in the driveway also...me and my two siblings learned to drive on it, and its been trouble free for 200K


Looks like you at least know what you want and what is reasonable. Post pics when you find one