I think we all agree that one of the ultimate mods is performing a solid axle swap to the IFS 4Runner (or truck). I want to know if there is a way to do the SAS without doing a big lift. I don't want to go too big with tires - 33's, maybe 35's. If I do a 1" body lift, is it possible to do only a 2" or 3" spring lift? What is the minimum? Will I loose a ton of articulation if I don't go with a big spring lift (5"+)?

 

why do a SAS for only a couple inches of lift?

ideally, you do a 5" kit with some soft springs and really flex some 33s or add a body lift and 35s.

 

This 4R will still spend alot of time on the street and highway, so "ideally" I want to maintain decent on-road stability. I have 32's now, so going to a 33 shouldn't be much of a stretch. I want a big improvement in flex (can't get there with IFS), but I'm not going for "monster truck" big. I will likely replace the rear coils with flexy orbit eye leafs - same up front for the SAS.

 

Go to Outdoor Wire and search for "Allen D."

Or look at http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/8895/SAS.html

 

Get some lockers and forget the sas if your not going to spend much time offroad.


You probably need at least 3 or 4 inches minimum lift to do an sas. With crossover and hysteer you will have spring/steering contact issues with anything less.

 

You can do min. lift with an SAS.
You can go yj springs, rear toy springs or waggy's. You don't need alot of lift for x-over, but will for highsteer.

And you can make your SAS rig drive nice if not better than IFS, I have proved this many a times with my SAS's

 

What is everyone's views on long control arms and an air bag system for the front end. Anyone done anything like this? Or are flexy leaf springs the best for articulation?

Fly - thanks for the link. It looks like he did a total of 5" of lift (3" lift springs, 1" spring perch lift, 1" body lift) Is that the lowest I can go? I'm not opposed to this much total. (I'll need some BL for the future 3.4 swap... )

Crash - have you done any lower than this? Got any pics/details?

 

 

The last sas I did I used 44044 rancho springs up front..

As for running a link setup up front, unless you are very knowledgeable with link systems, I would stay away from that.

Here are pics of the last sas I did, sorry I don't have any of the early ones I did using a flatter spring
http://www.pnw4x4.net/crash/dan/

 

If you're going with the Orbit Eyes, you will get a ton of flex and they ride pretty good. However, don't expect them to be completely road friendly. A flexy spring is generally softer.

AOR offers several lift options with their springs.

If you're not planning on doing all the work yourself, talk with Crash as he does them commercially now I think.

It's a fairly complex project requiring some good fabrication skills and tools.

Witha 4" SAS lift and a small body lift, you can run 33's and possible 35's if you're willing to do a little fender trimming.

This is the AOR 6" lift, 2" body lift and 37" tires. I had to move the front axle an additional 1.5" forward and trim the rear of the front fender to get it all to fit.
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/Img18.jpg
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/Img19.jpg
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/Img20.jpg
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/DSCF0020.jpg
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/DSCF0021.jpg
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/DSCF0017.jpg

 

Corey - for a minute there, I thought that was your rig. Do you have a pic of that same 4R sitting on flat ground?

Crash - thanks for the pics. Generally how long does it take to perform this operation. I have all the tools needed and can lay a pretty mean bead. I would not have an actual lift though, it would be jackstands, etc.

Gibby - is a soft spring squirrelly on the road? How are the road manners of your rig? I will not go that big. 33's or so probably. With your 5.29's and 37's what rpm do you turn at 65mph? BTW, nice flex!

 

It took me about weeks, but I also have a full time job. It also depends on how much PRE made parts you buy, all my stuff is custom built by me(years of building, changing, ect).

You have to remember, the softer the spring, the more body roll, and if its a runner, you are kinda heavy up high, thats going to be a factor.

Also, you have to remember, flex on a narrow rig can kill you, and I know in time gibby is going to find that out,lol, I can stick 65 degrees and not flop, but I am VERY low for the flex I have and pretty wide.

 

here is just about maxed out..


The amout of lift is only one factor in how big of a tire you can run, front axle placement is also another factor.

 

The soft springs definitely take some getting used to and I wouldn't want to perform any avoidance maneuvers!

You could add a sway bay with quick disconnects, which if you're gong to do a lot of on road driving, would be a benefit.

When I did the SAS it took me and a buddy 2 days in the garage from start to finish. The trickiest part I had to do was fashion an upper shock mount up through the fender, in order allow for maximum flex with 14" travel shocks. Other than that. it was about 2 hours to cut the IFS out till it dropped on the floor. It took 4-5 hours of cutting and grinding to clean everything up. Ididn't clean all the inside of the frame as it wasn't necessary, I just took the big hunks out of the way. Installing the hangers and springs took a couple of hours, I gave up trying to drill through the frame for the rear hanger and cut through with the torch instead. Getting the axle underneath and hooking up the steering was very simple, but that suckers heavy.

This is all assuming that you have a complete front end assembled ready to go. This probably took me longer that the entire swap as I rebuilt all of this with new seals, bushings, etc... It would have been faster if I'd know what I was doing :o)

 

Crash is right about the body roll problem in the 4Runner.

Someday, I'll got moving the weight down as much as possible.

Here's a video of the problem with the soft springs and high COG can cause.
http://207.202.208.243/faithwheelers/122902_02.htm
No, I didn't roll, but you can see that the body roll/lean is far very scary than what the suspension is doing.

My bottom end is fairly heavy with the large tires and I am farily wide with 10" rims with only 2.75" backspacing. Even the estra inch or two can make a lot of difference. I'd like to be able to test my actuall roll over angle someday, but under safe controlled conditions.

 

I want your rig Crash
That is what I want to build for a trail rig.

Cebby, the white 2nd gen came from this site.
http://www.4offrd.com/index2.htm

Some pretty cool Toys there, although some did not like the design of the flatbed, especialy the rear lights with the cat eye wrap arounds.

 

Adam makes a good point. A swap is usually near the end of a progression, not a jumping off place.

He used to have a 3rd gen that was much maligned, mostly because it was open. Now he has a 1st gen and a front axle.

If you have lockers front and rear, 33's and are geared correctly and are still getting hung up and stuck, swap by all means. Read Allen's page, it really is informative regarding this exact subject. I think the stated goals and objectives were near verbatum.

There is an excellent thread about first hand accounts of locked IFS rigs out performing flexy, but open sold axle rigs on identical obstacles on ODW. Good reading.