Question for those with 7th Injectors ????
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congrats. Let me hear you now TESTIFY to the non believers of the power of the 7th!!! Can I hear an AMEN Brother!!
(sorry, couldn't help myself)
(sorry, couldn't help myself)
Last edited by TRDOLMAN; 02-18-2006 at 07:28 PM.
#23
glad you got everything all worked out!
Although if I was looking to get the most life from the engine I would definately look into injectors and walbro even if you dont get it from URD. The additional fuel has a tremendous cooling effect. I went through a two 2L motors in my WRX from leaning it out, and in my personal opinion I think the 2.0 motor could hold up to boost alot better then our 3.4l
Glad you got everything worked out though!
Although if I was looking to get the most life from the engine I would definately look into injectors and walbro even if you dont get it from URD. The additional fuel has a tremendous cooling effect. I went through a two 2L motors in my WRX from leaning it out, and in my personal opinion I think the 2.0 motor could hold up to boost alot better then our 3.4l
Glad you got everything worked out though!
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CynicX
glad you got everything all worked out!
Although if I was looking to get the most life from the engine I would definately look into injectors and walbro even if you dont get it from URD. The additional fuel has a tremendous cooling effect. I went through a two 2L motors in my WRX from leaning it out, and in my personal opinion I think the 2.0 motor could hold up to boost alot better then our 3.4l
Glad you got everything worked out though!
Although if I was looking to get the most life from the engine I would definately look into injectors and walbro even if you dont get it from URD. The additional fuel has a tremendous cooling effect. I went through a two 2L motors in my WRX from leaning it out, and in my personal opinion I think the 2.0 motor could hold up to boost alot better then our 3.4l
Glad you got everything worked out though!
1. Easier to tune (no closed loop tuning required)
2. Has a factory warranty.
3. Sprays the fuel in just after the throttle body aiding in a cooler intake charge.
4. Is completely controllable with one extra part from URD.
5. Is a snap to install compared to having to remove the blower and change out 6 injectors.
6. At LEAST equal in making increased HP.
7. Is CARB approved.
8. Has only one part subject to failure instead of six.
You wouldn't consider it???
I won't even go into the additional engine control features built into the TRD box.
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave, it seems that the 7th injector kit + URD's AIC is an easiler approach than the full URD fuel upgrade kit. I have fitted the FTC box to my rig, will do the fuel pump, spark plugs, stat & lastly the large injectors next week. Yes, the full URD kit will require a bit more labor & time to fit to get te same result as the 7th + AIC.
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
#26
Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN
Cynic, I don't quite know what you are trying to say here. I agree with the Walbro. Are you saying you would rather have 6 larger injectors rather than 1 much larger injector and that the 6 injectors will promote longer engine life as opposed to one larger injector? 11.8-12.0 AFR is 11.8-12.0 AFR and it doesn't matter how many injectors it takes to get there. Now if you can get the right AFRs with an injector system that is:
1. Easier to tune (no closed loop tuning required)
2. Has a factory warranty.
3. Sprays the fuel in just after the throttle body aiding in a cooler intake charge.
4. Is completely controllable with one extra part from URD.
5. Is a snap to install compared to having to remove the blower and change out 6 injectors.
6. At LEAST equal in making increased HP.
7. Is CARB approved.
8. Has only one part subject to failure instead of six.
You wouldn't consider it???
I won't even go into the additional engine control features built into the TRD box.
1. Easier to tune (no closed loop tuning required)
2. Has a factory warranty.
3. Sprays the fuel in just after the throttle body aiding in a cooler intake charge.
4. Is completely controllable with one extra part from URD.
5. Is a snap to install compared to having to remove the blower and change out 6 injectors.
6. At LEAST equal in making increased HP.
7. Is CARB approved.
8. Has only one part subject to failure instead of six.
You wouldn't consider it???
I won't even go into the additional engine control features built into the TRD box.
Now, your truck is way faster then mine and I know you know what your doing. I'm not trying to start an argument at all.
It just seemed like the 7th injector was a bandaid. TRD introduced the supercharger saying "no fuel upgrades required" . People started noticing it did need fuel upgrades, so TRD introduces the 7th injector. Now in every car I've increased boost in (DSM and WRX), part of proper fuel managment was adding more fuel thus bigger injectors. Now I know a turbocharger is different then a supercharger but it just seems like if the engine needs more fuel lets put it were it goes.
Now with all the upgrades I've done I always had to go 1 or 2 step colder plugs, larger injectors (STI pinks on the WRX, modified on the DSM), a fuel pump (always Walbro), a stat (used the stock one on the DSM), a way to tune it (Cobb AccessPort tuner on the REX).
So the URD is a perfect fit. It includes EVERYTHING and it ends up being 100 bucks cheaper then the 7th.
I dont work for or represent URD and I'm not trying to sell they're products but unless you know exactly what you are doing, which I'm sure you do, I would head the URD route.
Isnt the 7th injector only covered if the dealer does it? So it doesnt matter how easy it is they will rip you off regardless. If I had the cash to sling around I would definately go that route. But for less then 3k you can get the S/C and everything you need to tune it and have it running safely with a ton more power over stock S/C only.
It has one EXTRA part that can fail. You already have 6 injectors, a new one is as likely to fail as one that you already have.
I dont even know what is included with the 7th inj. You mentioned it has a TRD box? What all is the 7th capable of? What comes with it? How is it easier to tune? I'm not trying to call you out with these questions, I seriously dont know but would like too....I've pretty much planned on the URD route for a friends S/C taco but would like to know all my options.....
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TomCham
Dave, it seems that the 7th injector kit + URD's AIC is an easiler approach than the full URD fuel upgrade kit. I have fitted the FTC box to my rig, will do the fuel pump, spark plugs, stat & lastly the large injectors next week. Yes, the full URD kit will require a bit more labor & time to fit to get te same result as the 7th + AIC.
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
There is no debate. Both kits work and work well if installed properly and tuned.
The differences in HP between the two kits mainly are differences in trucks themselves. Some engines just run stronger than others. I think it boils down to whatever kit the owner feels more comfortable with.
I will say this though----If you get your fuel kit to produce more than 305 RWHP without exotic fuels or nitrous, I will throw away my 7th and install a full fuel kit in a heartbeat. Until then I will run what I have-----
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CynicX
I didnt see where he stated a/f but I do agree if it gets you there it gets you there. I really am uneducated when it comes to the 7th but I like the value for the URD fuel kit over the 7th injector. I understand how it works and what it does but to me that seems like a bandaid, even though now that you mention the fact it will reduce intake temp I can see that being a nice benefit.
Now, your truck is way faster then mine and I know you know what your doing. I'm not trying to start an argument at all.
It just seemed like the 7th injector was a bandaid. TRD introduced the supercharger saying "no fuel upgrades required" . People started noticing it did need fuel upgrades, so TRD introduces the 7th injector. Now in every car I've increased boost in (DSM and WRX), part of proper fuel managment was adding more fuel thus bigger injectors. Now I know a turbocharger is different then a supercharger but it just seems like if the engine needs more fuel lets put it were it goes.
Now with all the upgrades I've done I always had to go 1 or 2 step colder plugs, larger injectors (STI pinks on the WRX, modified on the DSM), a fuel pump (always Walbro), a stat (used the stock one on the DSM), a way to tune it (Cobb AccessPort tuner on the REX).
So the URD is a perfect fit. It includes EVERYTHING and it ends up being 100 bucks cheaper then the 7th.
I dont work for or represent URD and I'm not trying to sell they're products but unless you know exactly what you are doing, which I'm sure you do, I would head the URD route.
Isnt the 7th injector only covered if the dealer does it? So it doesnt matter how easy it is they will rip you off regardless. If I had the cash to sling around I would definately go that route. But for less then 3k you can get the S/C and everything you need to tune it and have it running safely with a ton more power over stock S/C only.
It has one EXTRA part that can fail. You already have 6 injectors, a new one is as likely to fail as one that you already have.
I dont even know what is included with the 7th inj. You mentioned it has a TRD box? What all is the 7th capable of? What comes with it? How is it easier to tune? I'm not trying to call you out with these questions, I seriously dont know but would like too....I've pretty much planned on the URD route for a friends S/C taco but would like to know all my options.....
Now, your truck is way faster then mine and I know you know what your doing. I'm not trying to start an argument at all.
It just seemed like the 7th injector was a bandaid. TRD introduced the supercharger saying "no fuel upgrades required" . People started noticing it did need fuel upgrades, so TRD introduces the 7th injector. Now in every car I've increased boost in (DSM and WRX), part of proper fuel managment was adding more fuel thus bigger injectors. Now I know a turbocharger is different then a supercharger but it just seems like if the engine needs more fuel lets put it were it goes.
Now with all the upgrades I've done I always had to go 1 or 2 step colder plugs, larger injectors (STI pinks on the WRX, modified on the DSM), a fuel pump (always Walbro), a stat (used the stock one on the DSM), a way to tune it (Cobb AccessPort tuner on the REX).
So the URD is a perfect fit. It includes EVERYTHING and it ends up being 100 bucks cheaper then the 7th.
I dont work for or represent URD and I'm not trying to sell they're products but unless you know exactly what you are doing, which I'm sure you do, I would head the URD route.
Isnt the 7th injector only covered if the dealer does it? So it doesnt matter how easy it is they will rip you off regardless. If I had the cash to sling around I would definately go that route. But for less then 3k you can get the S/C and everything you need to tune it and have it running safely with a ton more power over stock S/C only.
It has one EXTRA part that can fail. You already have 6 injectors, a new one is as likely to fail as one that you already have.
I dont even know what is included with the 7th inj. You mentioned it has a TRD box? What all is the 7th capable of? What comes with it? How is it easier to tune? I'm not trying to call you out with these questions, I seriously dont know but would like too....I've pretty much planned on the URD route for a friends S/C taco but would like to know all my options.....
ANYTHING added to make the TRD S/C work properly is a "bandaid". Whether it means 6 injectors or one or which piggyback you use it's still all a "bandaid".
The 7th is warranteed for 1 year regardless of who puts it on. In my case, I let Toyota put in on so I have a 75K warranty on it along with the S/C.
Gadget and Brian of URD happen to be friends of mine and they have my utmost respect so plug their products all you want---that's cool. The only thing is, don't poo-poo another product if you don't have all the info.
The 7th is easier to tune because basically all you have to tune is open loop. All other phases of engine fuel management is handled by the TRD ECU and the stock Toyota ECU. The truck runs basically like stock until you nail it hard, go into open loop and the 7th takes over.
Yes the 7th and AIC is $100 more. How much will you charge me to pull the supercharger, replace 6 injectors, rewire the injector connectors, and replace the supercharger? If it's less than $100---you work too cheap.
Have you ever asked yourself why my truck is as you say "is faster than mine"? I am no guru or genius on this engine and to be honest, you probably have much more experience with computer controlled engines than I do. Ever think maybe the fuel system might have something to do with it? I think maybe so---
Last edited by TRDOLMAN; 02-19-2006 at 02:25 PM.
#29
Registered User
Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN
How much will you charge me to... rewire the injector connectors...
Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN
Have you ever asked yourself why my truck is as you say "is faster than mine"? I am no guru or genius on this engine and to be honest, you probably have much more experience with computer controlled engines than I do. Ever think maybe the fuel system might have something to do with it? I think maybe so---
It's also important to point out that your 305hp numbers are with a 2" pulley - not something that a lot of folks are running. We KNOW that extra 1.5-2lbs of boost means a lot!
I'd venture a guess that running six 305cc injectors will net as much fuel into the engine a the stocks plus the 7th. I _know_ that an FTC1 or SMT box sitting on top of the larger injectors (and with a Walbro pushing on them) can get you to the point of running rich, so I know that system can keep up with the air intake.
The only _big_ thing left is the boost and the methanol.
I still have a methanol plan to make happen this spring/summer. It'll be interesting to see how close I can get to your HP numbers - it may just be the first 7th vs. 305cc run off!
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no reason why your numbers won't be as high as mine with similar mods Mark. Because of added functions like actually adding timing at high boost, I think the 7th system will still end up pulling harder. There are some guys over on CT that have all your mods and the "misting" system and as of yet they haven't come up with numbers to match even with manual trannys and 2WD. It doesn't matter because it's only good for bragging rights anyway. You will find out soon enough when you dyno again or make a pass down the drag strip. Just as an FYI though---the 2.0 pulley only made 7 RWHP difference above the 2.2 with all other things being equal. It just produces too much heat to make that much difference even with the water/methanol injection. If there was some way we could intercool these damn things, the 2.0 would surely make more of a difference. Had I known it would only make 7 hp more, I would have saved my money.
The water/methanol injection does make a difference. When you get your system up and running, I think you will really like what it does.
Hell, I hope you beat my HP numbers Good luck at the dyno!!
The water/methanol injection does make a difference. When you get your system up and running, I think you will really like what it does.
Hell, I hope you beat my HP numbers Good luck at the dyno!!
Last edited by TRDOLMAN; 02-19-2006 at 08:53 PM.
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TomCham
Dave, it seems that the 7th injector kit + URD's AIC is an easiler approach than the full URD fuel upgrade kit. I have fitted the FTC box to my rig, will do the fuel pump, spark plugs, stat & lastly the large injectors next week. Yes, the full URD kit will require a bit more labor & time to fit to get te same result as the 7th + AIC.
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
Gadget, can you let us know if there is any tricks can be done on the full fuel upgrade kit for making more power than the 7th + AIC. Let's start the full fuel kit vs 7th injector debate
I am newbie in the 5vzfe & TRD s/c'r so I am curious to know the differences between these 2 kits (even I have fitted the URD fuel kit). It seems that the 6 larger injectors will benefit the lower rpm range of the s/cr'd 5vzfe while the 7th injector will provide cooling to the charge & may contribute more at the higher rpm range. I will post my dyno chart once it was done. My next step will be the 2.2" pulley
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TomCham
I am newbie in the 5vzfe & TRD s/c'r so I am curious to know the differences between these 2 kits (even I have fitted the URD fuel kit). It seems that the 6 larger injectors will benefit the lower rpm range of the s/cr'd 5vzfe while the 7th injector will provide cooling to the charge & may contribute more at the higher rpm range. I will post my dyno chart once it was done. My next step will be the 2.2" pulley
Last edited by TRDOLMAN; 02-20-2006 at 08:04 AM.
#33
Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN
Have you ever asked yourself why my truck is as you say "is faster than mine"? I am no guru or genius on this engine and to be honest, you probably have much more experience with computer controlled engines than I do. Ever think maybe the fuel system might have something to do with it? I think maybe so---
I have a sport bike when I have the need for speed (10.09 @ 141.45mph stock with room for improvement) . For the amount of money invested in the S/C I would rather put then money down on a sports car if I was looking for speed. 3-4k is a NICE down payment on a new Evo which I'm sure I'll never get but thats neither here nor there.
Your truck will always be faster then mine. Just whoever wants to put the most money into it
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all good CynicX. There are folks out there that want HP out of their 3.4 engines. I have had such good luck with the mods I did that I just wanted people to know what worked for me. The thing I am excited about other than the power it puts out is that it runs perfectly with no adverse effects from the mods. I put it together basically a year ago and, other than tweaking, haven't had to touch it since. It (after 30 minutes of very minor wrenching) is under warranty, carb, and smog legal. Guess it all depends on what you want to spend your money on.
Last edited by TRDOLMAN; 02-20-2006 at 04:27 PM.
#35
Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN
It's all good CynicX. There are folks out there that want HP out of their 3.4 engines. I have had such good luck with the mods I did that I just wanted people to know what worked for me. The thing I am excited about other than the power it puts out is that it runs perfectly with no adverse effects from the mods. I put it together basically a year ago and, other than tweaking, haven't had to touch it since. It (after 30 minutes of very minor wrenching) is under warranty, carb, and smog legal. Guess it all depends on what you want to spend your money on.
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CynicX
its smog legal in CA?...I'm assuming you are talking about when you had a cat. But that still surprises me with the regulations out there....
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TRDOLMAN,
Can you help clarify something regarding the URD AIC and the stock ECU that is puzzling me.
I have the 7th injector, wallpro pump, & UDR AIC. My AIC was tuned by Brian of URD and at the time felt pretty strong.
Here's what I don't understand.
The AIC is used to add fuel to try and achieve around 12.0 AFR. You can easily tune it to do this in open loop based on the RPM and boost. There is no control for doing this in only open loop so it does it for both open loop and closed loop at the same RPM and boost. My concern is closed loop. The AIC is trying to add fuel in closed loop the same way it does in open loop but the stock ECU is going to try and maintain 14.7 AFR. IT will decrease fuel to the 6 stock injectors to try and get 14.7 AFR because the AIC is adding fuel to be at 12.0 AFR that you wanted in open loop. After awhile the LT fuel trims get adjusted which in turn affect the WOT fuel delivery. Your open loop WOT will no longer be around 12.0 AFR which you originally tuned it to. I think I am experiemcing this now based on the readings I am getting from my LM-1.
I think for the AIC to work optimally, it should only be trggered on during open loop. I think a combined unit where the AIC only works in open loop and the new AFC works in closed loop would solve the problem. I know you can buy and add the new AFC but this will not eliminate the AIC from working in closed loop.
Am I missing something in how the stock ECU & AIC work in closed loop?
I did read the U-Tune guide from UDR.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
KODA4.
Can you help clarify something regarding the URD AIC and the stock ECU that is puzzling me.
I have the 7th injector, wallpro pump, & UDR AIC. My AIC was tuned by Brian of URD and at the time felt pretty strong.
Here's what I don't understand.
The AIC is used to add fuel to try and achieve around 12.0 AFR. You can easily tune it to do this in open loop based on the RPM and boost. There is no control for doing this in only open loop so it does it for both open loop and closed loop at the same RPM and boost. My concern is closed loop. The AIC is trying to add fuel in closed loop the same way it does in open loop but the stock ECU is going to try and maintain 14.7 AFR. IT will decrease fuel to the 6 stock injectors to try and get 14.7 AFR because the AIC is adding fuel to be at 12.0 AFR that you wanted in open loop. After awhile the LT fuel trims get adjusted which in turn affect the WOT fuel delivery. Your open loop WOT will no longer be around 12.0 AFR which you originally tuned it to. I think I am experiemcing this now based on the readings I am getting from my LM-1.
I think for the AIC to work optimally, it should only be trggered on during open loop. I think a combined unit where the AIC only works in open loop and the new AFC works in closed loop would solve the problem. I know you can buy and add the new AFC but this will not eliminate the AIC from working in closed loop.
Am I missing something in how the stock ECU & AIC work in closed loop?
I did read the U-Tune guide from UDR.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
KODA4.
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Koda4, I am familiar with the operation of the 7th, AIC and the ECM (I was corrected the other day and informed that it is not an ECU by some Tech ) but am not an expert. I really don't know as much about the correlation between the three units as I'd like to. I am still learning about my truck and getting bits of information from Gadget who is the most knowledgeable person I can find on the subject.
What i understand is this: Short or long term fuel trims from the closed loop environment will not have anything to do with WOT open loop operation. In open loop, the ECM does not rely on the sensors to regulate the fuel mix. There is a generic fuel map installed in the ECM that regulates the fuel in open loop. Changes you have made to the fuel trims in closed loop with the AIC should not effect open loop operation. All I know is that I started (actually Brian initially tuned my AIC also) adding fuel at 0 psi and gradually worked my way up adding more fuel. Mine runs 12.0 AFR on the nose in open loop. I have checked it 50 times and it never changes barring atmospheric changes of course. If your WOT AFR changes over time, I don't quite understand. You might want to talk to Gadget about that. As I said, I don't have that problem.
We really don't know what exactly how the TRD piggyback functions or what it really changes. All "top secret" TRD stuff you understand. I have been told that it is a very sophisticated and powerful unit that in one "experts" words could "run the entire engine management system by itself". It would have been a lot cheaper for TRD to just use a device like the AIC to run the injector but chose instead to go with the high dollar piggyback unit. They must have had their reasons. I have been told by TRD that the unit actually increases timing at WOT over and above what the Toyota ECM is capable of. I have also been told that when the 7th injector is activated that the TRD unit reduces fuel to the main injectors. Another thing I have been told is that the TRD unit already has an AFR calibrator already built into it to smooth the transition from closed loop to open loop. I really don't know. I do know that Gadget knows a lot more about the TRD unit than anybody else outside the TRD "loop" but he is sometimes not too keen on giving out a lot of info about it.
I have been tempted to try out the AFR calibrator but to be honest, I don't know how my truck could run any better.
Maybe Gadget will pop in and straighten me out if I have given you wrong info. It might be advantageous for you to talk to Gadget about this and try and pick his brain. If you find out something new, be sure and let me know.
What i understand is this: Short or long term fuel trims from the closed loop environment will not have anything to do with WOT open loop operation. In open loop, the ECM does not rely on the sensors to regulate the fuel mix. There is a generic fuel map installed in the ECM that regulates the fuel in open loop. Changes you have made to the fuel trims in closed loop with the AIC should not effect open loop operation. All I know is that I started (actually Brian initially tuned my AIC also) adding fuel at 0 psi and gradually worked my way up adding more fuel. Mine runs 12.0 AFR on the nose in open loop. I have checked it 50 times and it never changes barring atmospheric changes of course. If your WOT AFR changes over time, I don't quite understand. You might want to talk to Gadget about that. As I said, I don't have that problem.
We really don't know what exactly how the TRD piggyback functions or what it really changes. All "top secret" TRD stuff you understand. I have been told that it is a very sophisticated and powerful unit that in one "experts" words could "run the entire engine management system by itself". It would have been a lot cheaper for TRD to just use a device like the AIC to run the injector but chose instead to go with the high dollar piggyback unit. They must have had their reasons. I have been told by TRD that the unit actually increases timing at WOT over and above what the Toyota ECM is capable of. I have also been told that when the 7th injector is activated that the TRD unit reduces fuel to the main injectors. Another thing I have been told is that the TRD unit already has an AFR calibrator already built into it to smooth the transition from closed loop to open loop. I really don't know. I do know that Gadget knows a lot more about the TRD unit than anybody else outside the TRD "loop" but he is sometimes not too keen on giving out a lot of info about it.
I have been tempted to try out the AFR calibrator but to be honest, I don't know how my truck could run any better.
Maybe Gadget will pop in and straighten me out if I have given you wrong info. It might be advantageous for you to talk to Gadget about this and try and pick his brain. If you find out something new, be sure and let me know.
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks TRDOLMAN for your quick response.
I don't know for a fact that my open loop AFR changed over a period of time.
I just know that when I did a log yesterday I saw it go from 12.0 and made a bell shaped curve going to around 13.0 then back to around 12.5 while doing a test at WOT. I made an assumption that Brian made it pretty flat at around 12.0 at WOT in open loop but I do not know for sure
What about closed loop and the AIC. I personally have not experienced any performance problems except for lately the poor gas mileage in city driving. My last tank was averaging around 10 mpg with normal city driving.
I'm going to test disconnecting the AIC(so easy to do) and run just the 7th again for awhile and see if my mpg come up.
I found this info that states the Long FT affects open loop.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h44.pdf
This looks like a Toyota document. Look towards the end of this PDF file under Long FT.
BTW
I found a very easy way to hook up a fuel pressure sender if you have the older style 7th injector. The older style has an 1/8 npt plug on top of the injector block(newer ones don't have this plug). I put in a 45 degree 1/8 npt fitting connected to a fuel pressure sender.
KODA4
I don't know for a fact that my open loop AFR changed over a period of time.
I just know that when I did a log yesterday I saw it go from 12.0 and made a bell shaped curve going to around 13.0 then back to around 12.5 while doing a test at WOT. I made an assumption that Brian made it pretty flat at around 12.0 at WOT in open loop but I do not know for sure
What about closed loop and the AIC. I personally have not experienced any performance problems except for lately the poor gas mileage in city driving. My last tank was averaging around 10 mpg with normal city driving.
I'm going to test disconnecting the AIC(so easy to do) and run just the 7th again for awhile and see if my mpg come up.
I found this info that states the Long FT affects open loop.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h44.pdf
This looks like a Toyota document. Look towards the end of this PDF file under Long FT.
BTW
I found a very easy way to hook up a fuel pressure sender if you have the older style 7th injector. The older style has an 1/8 npt plug on top of the injector block(newer ones don't have this plug). I put in a 45 degree 1/8 npt fitting connected to a fuel pressure sender.
KODA4
Last edited by koda4; 02-27-2006 at 02:28 PM.
#40
Registered User
Koda... you may wanna glance through this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/got-s-c-piggyback-wanna-try-something-77040/
The bottom line is that you're right - I too feel the effects of the ECU (still gonna call it "ECU" Dave!) creeping back up against my piggyback tuning. And this is with a totally different system than the 7th. It's just the nature of the ECU to always seek Stoich.
The only thing that we've seen thus far to combat this is the SplitSecond ESC1 which intercepts the O2 signal to the ECU and (somehow) fakes it into coming into open loop a LOT sooner - that allows unbridled tuning possibilities much lower in the RPM band.
If you read through tha thread, you'll see that "one of the things on my list" is to try out a theory about how the ESC1 works. I think it's priced WAY high for what it's doing and would love to find out that I can make something happen for about $10.
Now... where'd I put that 36 hour day and the "good weather generator"?
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/got-s-c-piggyback-wanna-try-something-77040/
The bottom line is that you're right - I too feel the effects of the ECU (still gonna call it "ECU" Dave!) creeping back up against my piggyback tuning. And this is with a totally different system than the 7th. It's just the nature of the ECU to always seek Stoich.
The only thing that we've seen thus far to combat this is the SplitSecond ESC1 which intercepts the O2 signal to the ECU and (somehow) fakes it into coming into open loop a LOT sooner - that allows unbridled tuning possibilities much lower in the RPM band.
If you read through tha thread, you'll see that "one of the things on my list" is to try out a theory about how the ESC1 works. I think it's priced WAY high for what it's doing and would love to find out that I can make something happen for about $10.
Now... where'd I put that 36 hour day and the "good weather generator"?