question about Supercharging .. tried search
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ocala, Fl
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
question about Supercharging .. tried search
I have noticed you can add the TRD supercharger to basically any motor. I tried the search but did not find my answer. What I want to know is when you add the kit, how is the fuel/timing map changed? Do they supply a diffrent chip, perhaps a diffrent FPR, or maybe injectors?? what is it they do to compensate for the extra needed fuel and pulled timing .. if that is what they do? thanks Todd
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only "they" that adds anything will be you sad to say. TRD doesn't offer anything as they insist you don't have to add a thing(which is BS). To assist the s/c perform better, you'll probably want to add fuel pump, injectors and piggy back puter. I know there is a whole host of threads about these issues.
#3
Hey Todd,
Not sure about other Super Chargers but the one for the V8s claim to have new injector, fuel map, etc. http://www.toyotaparts4u.com/4.7_V8_supercharger.htm
Not sure about other Super Chargers but the one for the V8s claim to have new injector, fuel map, etc. http://www.toyotaparts4u.com/4.7_V8_supercharger.htm
#4
Contributing Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stock ECU can 'learn' a bit and compensate for the supercharger. As others have said, you may want to do more. I haven't done any fuel mods and haven't had any problems, but I drive pretty mellow like.
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ocala, Fl
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i will do the search and see what comes up as far as the issues. But, when the charger comes stock on the trucks, do they run crappy up top, or just when you start modding them?
#6
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Southern MD USA
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want it to run perfectly, then there are three things that will do that for you.
1. Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump
2. ND 305cc injectors
3. A piggy back controller to retune everythign. The best one going is the UNICHIP.
If you do those three things, you will then be having as much fun as I am.
There is a little more info on my site if you are interested.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
1. Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump
2. ND 305cc injectors
3. A piggy back controller to retune everythign. The best one going is the UNICHIP.
If you do those three things, you will then be having as much fun as I am.
There is a little more info on my site if you are interested.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
JM2C
There is so much controversy on this subject that it can really get heated. I think the longest thread in this board’s history is all about tuning our trucks. I went through hell in the beginning, after installing the SC on my new 2002 4Runner. I refused to get into all the tuning mods that others swear are necessary in order to get the SC to operate properly. The fact of the matter is that although Magnuson / Eaton makes the system; it is TRD who directs the installation procedure and it is TRD that is the problem. After I finally corrected the error in the installation procedure from TRD, my SC runs perfectly with no fuel or tuning modifications. Magnuson designed the system as a direct plug-and-play system and that is my experience at this time. Could it run better and produce more power? Yes.
I have spoken to numerous people who have had problems with the system, and are still having problems, but with stock tuning my system is outstanding. I have no pre-ignition / detonation, no hesitation other than the normal lag, and I am getting great gas mileage. I don’t know what else to say, it works for me.
Good luck with your decision.
I have spoken to numerous people who have had problems with the system, and are still having problems, but with stock tuning my system is outstanding. I have no pre-ignition / detonation, no hesitation other than the normal lag, and I am getting great gas mileage. I don’t know what else to say, it works for me.
Good luck with your decision.
Trending Topics
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Peter. Once I had the bad install fixed, I've been completely happy. Its up to you if you want to milk more from it by doing the aforementioned things.
BTW, for a couple months now I've been getting 18.5-19 MPG.
.02
Nick
BTW, for a couple months now I've been getting 18.5-19 MPG.
.02
Nick
#9
Registered User
Re: JM2C
Originally posted by ManyMods
After I finally corrected the error in the installation procedure from TRD, my SC runs perfectly with no fuel or tuning modifications.
After I finally corrected the error in the installation procedure from TRD, my SC runs perfectly with no fuel or tuning modifications.
#10
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Southern MD USA
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: JM2C
Originally posted by ManyMods
There is so much controversy on this subject that it can really get heated. I think the longest thread in this board’s history is all about tuning our trucks. I went through hell in the beginning, after installing the SC on my new 2002 4Runner. I refused to get into all the tuning mods that others swear are necessary in order to get the SC to operate properly. The fact of the matter is that although Magnuson / Eaton makes the system; it is TRD who directs the installation procedure and it is TRD that is the problem. After I finally corrected the error in the installation procedure from TRD, my SC runs perfectly with no fuel or tuning modifications. Magnuson designed the system as a direct plug-and-play system and that is my experience at this time. Could it run better and produce more power? Yes.
I have spoken to numerous people who have had problems with the system, and are still having problems, but with stock tuning my system is outstanding. I have no pre-ignition / detonation, no hesitation other than the normal lag, and I am getting great gas mileage. I don’t know what else to say, it works for me.
Good luck with your decision.
There is so much controversy on this subject that it can really get heated. I think the longest thread in this board’s history is all about tuning our trucks. I went through hell in the beginning, after installing the SC on my new 2002 4Runner. I refused to get into all the tuning mods that others swear are necessary in order to get the SC to operate properly. The fact of the matter is that although Magnuson / Eaton makes the system; it is TRD who directs the installation procedure and it is TRD that is the problem. After I finally corrected the error in the installation procedure from TRD, my SC runs perfectly with no fuel or tuning modifications. Magnuson designed the system as a direct plug-and-play system and that is my experience at this time. Could it run better and produce more power? Yes.
I have spoken to numerous people who have had problems with the system, and are still having problems, but with stock tuning my system is outstanding. I have no pre-ignition / detonation, no hesitation other than the normal lag, and I am getting great gas mileage. I don’t know what else to say, it works for me.
Good luck with your decision.
Magnuson's responce to this move was "It is the most expensive way I have ever seen to aluminize and exhuast system."
There has been a rumor for some time that TRD will be selling a piggy back unit to control fuel and timing and include a suplimental fuel injector to address the high RPM lean out problem. It is a good rumor. When it is released it may cost somewhere around $1200 and no, it won't be free to those that already have a supercharger.
You can do the injector, fuel pump, and controller upgrade now for less and be able to custom tune it to your truck for the best drivability and performance.
Will it run without it? Yes it will.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Re: JM2C
Originally posted by Gadget
Well that is not completely accurate. The fact is that Magnuson did include fuel enhancement, not enough, but some in the original kits. It was the pressure increasing FMU. TRD deleted it to address the HG/LR-Ping by forcing it to run super lean on the top end to reduce the ignition timing which has an affect on the HG/LR-Ping.
Magnuson's responce to this move was "It is the most expensive way I have ever seen to aluminize and exhuast system."
There has been a rumor for some time that TRD will be selling a piggy back unit to control fuel and timing and include a suplimental fuel injector to address the high RPM lean out problem. It is a good rumor. When it is released it may cost somewhere around $1200 and no, it won't be free to those that already have a supercharger.
You can do the injector, fuel pump, and controller upgrade now for less and be able to custom tune it to your truck for the best drivability and performance.
Will it run without it? Yes it will.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Well that is not completely accurate. The fact is that Magnuson did include fuel enhancement, not enough, but some in the original kits. It was the pressure increasing FMU. TRD deleted it to address the HG/LR-Ping by forcing it to run super lean on the top end to reduce the ignition timing which has an affect on the HG/LR-Ping.
Magnuson's responce to this move was "It is the most expensive way I have ever seen to aluminize and exhuast system."
There has been a rumor for some time that TRD will be selling a piggy back unit to control fuel and timing and include a suplimental fuel injector to address the high RPM lean out problem. It is a good rumor. When it is released it may cost somewhere around $1200 and no, it won't be free to those that already have a supercharger.
You can do the injector, fuel pump, and controller upgrade now for less and be able to custom tune it to your truck for the best drivability and performance.
Will it run without it? Yes it will.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
HOWEVER, to answer mpulver's question; from my experience, the problem I had was TRD not specifying the check valve as part of the 2002 installation procedure. The check valve installation was the turning point for me. I use stock heat range plugs w/ stock gap, stock thermostat and stock air box w/ stock filter.
I too am getting 19 mpg AROUND TOWN and am very happy with that number.
I might pay the $1200 (gulp) for the upgrade tuner if that had to be the price, but I am happy as is. My primary concern is that I do not want to void my platinum warranty.
#13
Registered User
Re: Re: Re: JM2C
Originally posted by ManyMods
HOWEVER, to answer mpulver's question; from my experience, the problem I had was TRD not specifying the check valve as part of the 2002 installation procedure. The check valve installation was the turning point for me. I use stock heat range plugs w/ stock gap, stock thermostat and stock air box w/ stock filter.
HOWEVER, to answer mpulver's question; from my experience, the problem I had was TRD not specifying the check valve as part of the 2002 installation procedure. The check valve installation was the turning point for me. I use stock heat range plugs w/ stock gap, stock thermostat and stock air box w/ stock filter.
Thanks for the memory jog.
(now wanting an S/C again if I don't _have_ to do all the fuel mods! )
Mark
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rich
Well it might be overkill now but you'll run rich with an S/C and no computer. MAF will sense more air and then the ECU will pump in more fuel. It won't hurt anything persay but I personally think if you want the S/C you gotta get bigger injectors and some sort of computer that will manage your air/fuel ratio for you at the least. I think AFC's are $300 new, maybe you could find one for $150-$200. The TRD "kit" isn't much of a kit. It's the blower unit and hardware to install it and hook it up. Most turbo or s/c kits supply at least new injectors and most of the time other things too to utilize the newly plentiful amount of air. I am planning on buying Creed's 2nd gen S/C soon and when it goes in I'm putting in injectors from 330cc-370cc -- they're a must for me. The SAFC will be later but it will come too. Just another opinion.
Zach
Zach
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Rich
Originally posted by White SR5
Well it might be overkill now but you'll run rich with an S/C and no computer. MAF will sense more air and then the ECU will pump in more fuel....
Well it might be overkill now but you'll run rich with an S/C and no computer. MAF will sense more air and then the ECU will pump in more fuel....
I am a little confused here because I thought that the ECU provides a buffer of about 25% for fuel table adjustment. If the MAF senses more air and the ECU adjusts accordingly, what is the problem. I absolutely do not see that the engine runs rich, if anything it runs lean... at the top end. I would not be getting the mpg I am getting and the plugs would not indicate what they do if the engine ran rich. I am not that knowledgeable but what you said did not make total sense to me.
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If i were to take off my smt6 unit my br3 wouldiediatly go to -20 to -25 (thas as far as it can go) and that means WAY WAY to rich...so there is your answer bout running rich without computer assitant. Yes the ECU can control up to 20-25% buc the thing is the injectors still provide more gas beyond that point. Esspecialy if your running 370cc injetors like i am.
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Rich
Originally posted by ManyMods
Hi Zach,
I am a little confused here because I thought that the ECU provides a buffer of about 25% for fuel table adjustment. If the MAF senses more air and the ECU adjusts accordingly, what is the problem. I absolutely do not see that the engine runs rich, if anything it runs lean... at the top end. I would not be getting the mpg I am getting and the plugs would not indicate what they do if the engine ran rich. I am not that knowledgeable but what you said did not make total sense to me.
Hi Zach,
I am a little confused here because I thought that the ECU provides a buffer of about 25% for fuel table adjustment. If the MAF senses more air and the ECU adjusts accordingly, what is the problem. I absolutely do not see that the engine runs rich, if anything it runs lean... at the top end. I would not be getting the mpg I am getting and the plugs would not indicate what they do if the engine ran rich. I am not that knowledgeable but what you said did not make total sense to me.
Zach
Last edited by White SR5; 08-02-2003 at 03:12 PM.
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with White SR5...except i wouldnt recommend the regular settings....or as some would call...fuel economy settings...as your running extreamly lean with stock injectors and its basicly the same as smoking =] it iwll die much much sooner and casue other problems like galvanized exhaust....burning holes through gaskets because temps go above 1600 degrees....if you want to s/c get the mods done...you can even save some mpg as well...chris has experence an improvment on his fuel economy with a properly tuned truck.
Im wokring on it right now as well =]
Im wokring on it right now as well =]
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I am not arguing the point that you can surely wring more power out of the SC, but I did not put it on to make it a rice rocket I just wanted a little more UMPH out of the engine for better acceleration, and that is what I got... along with the bling bling. If the setup that I have causes problems, guess what... that is going to be Toyota's problem because I have the warranty and I have done everything the way Toyota recommended and all installations were done by the dealer. I do not believe I will have a problem but if I do, I am covered as far as I am concerned.
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Peter. His argument was that the engine does not run rich without fuel mods. In fact I know he and I have perfect running vehicles without them once the check valve was installed correctly. Those of us with newer trucks I guess are more concerned with making our payments than making huge power.
BTW Peter, I ordered the Addcos from swaybars.com. The fronts were a little bit more expensive than Summit but at least they carry them. I also flirted a little with the lady on the phone and she didn't charge me shipping on one of the bars.
Later,
Nick
BTW Peter, I ordered the Addcos from swaybars.com. The fronts were a little bit more expensive than Summit but at least they carry them. I also flirted a little with the lady on the phone and she didn't charge me shipping on one of the bars.
Later,
Nick