TheOriginal

New.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...sket_maker.htm

mattbatson

hey, I can start a new thread if I'm hijacking this one

anyways, I just did the drivers side rear seal and bearing.
I've never done the bearing before, and after gathering all the parts I took it into a guy to get it all pressed in/out.
Well, I got it back, and the driveshaft itself is pretty gouged up. I guess he had some difficulty with it, I dont know, but it isnt just scraped a little bit

anyways, I get it all back together, and it looks like it is leaking again. Now, I need to drive it more to make 100% certain, but I think it is...

Now, I did the passenger side seal only a couple of years ago, and got it on the first try and it has held fine.

So my worry is that it is leaking under the abs rotor thing...like what you guys talked about using RTV on a few posts up.

Thoughts?
Should I just pull it apart again and redo the seal?

DRCOFFEE

This is what I had tried before reversing the retainer and it leaked.

I think you should pull it apart and make sure the seal is contacting the retainer like the picture above in post #19

DRCOFFEE

I am keeping a running log of results for this repair in the first post. So far I am leak free nearly 7000 miles later.

To help some people better visualize the problem I have posted a cut-away view of the new OEM seal.

If you follow the FSM as they describe the "correct" placement, your sealing lip will be lucky to contact the non-polished bevel of the retainer as seen in this picture. Notice where the outer lip of the seal is positioned. That lip will leave a ring on the retainer leading you to believe your seal is in the center when in fact its not sealing at all.



If and I mean if you could insert the retainer all the way into the seal, this picture shows the best you can expect is to be just on the edge of the polished shoulder of the retainer. The reason I say IF, is because the retainer will rub the axle housing if you set it that deep into the seal. Its not possible to obtain this placement.



Following my direction, you can get the sealing lip of the seal right into the center of the polished shoulder of the retainer where it was intended to be for a correct seal.

mattbatson

Ok,
Well here is what happened.

As you can read from my other posts, I took one side axle into the dealer with all of my dealer bought parts and after much description and instruction had them do this technique with my axle.

I replaced the oil seal, and I even used silicone on the axle at the base of the retainer, etc...


Well, I checked it by pulling the abs plug a couple months ago after putting about 3k miles on it, and it was oily.

I'm 99% certain that I had cleaned this plug before reinstalling it the last time...which means I'm still leaking.

I have put another 3k miles or so on it, and am getting ready to pull that plug again to see what is going on.
If it is oily, then I will know with 100 % certainty.

DRCOFFEE

Please clarfy. This is the reason I posted this thread, to get feedback. Was the bearing and retainer and seal new or new but had previously leaked. If the bearing had been washed with oil from a prior leak, this could well be backwash from the bearing and outer seal. If the seal were leaking, the ABS ring would be golden with oil as well. When you pull the ABS sensor, take pictures please. Then use a ribbon of cloth and feed it around the ABS ring as you turn the axle. mop up the oil and check again in a few months.

If the bearings were new, you need to make sure the seal was seated correctly and wasn't damaged when the axle was installed. There are a few factors that need to be checked before coming to a conclusion. But above all else, take pictures of the axle retainers and seals if you pull the axles out again. Please post the pics.

mattbatson

here is the pic

before I installed it I put silicone on the axle and put a new oil seal in the axle tube.

also, I know the ABS ring is slightly off...it shouldnt be flush now that the retainer is in a different position...but ABS works fine, and if you view it through the plug hole it is seems positioned fine.
a few millimeters doesnt seem to matter with it.


anyways, I was very careful when reinstalling the axle so as not to catch the oil seal. This isnt my first rodeo so to speak...

when I pull the ABS plug this weekend, I will take pic's and post.
Keeping my fingers crossed that it is not oily!

DRCOFFEE

Great news. No leakage. None!

Its been 22 months and 20,000 miles since the repair. You be the judge.

This thread is worthy of a sticky in the tech section IMHO.

DRCOFFEE

If you take a close look at your axle bearing in this picture, it appears to me that the bearing was not pressed in all the way. In fact, you should pull the axle out before something bad happens. It could explain why it may still be leaking. When you press on the bearing, you support it with the outer retainer. The outer retainer is held in place by a C-clip. You need to check to see that your C-clip is seated into the channel.

You can see in this picture how deeply the C-clip is seated into the channel of the axle.

DRCOFFEE

Mattbatson,

Did you re-check the position of the bearing? It looks like it wasn't pressed deep enough. Comparing the two pictures, the C-clip is definitely not seated into the channel. There is a risk of the axle coming out on you.

mattbatson

Hey,
Long time since I've been on here, but email let me know about this posting...

Since I've had that done, I've put about 15K miles on the runner, mostly towing, back and forth from florida to north carolina.
In fact, just got back a couple of weeks ago from another trip.
tow about 3500 lbs with tandem axle trailer and weight dist hitch....a lot.

I would think that if there was an issue like the one your mentioning, that it would have rear it's ugly head by now.

I will pull it though to take a look...maybe in the next two weeks. So busy right now with our move up to NC...

Also, as an update, it might not be leaking OR might only be leaking a tiny little bit at most.

I pulled both rear drum brakes and had the drums turned and new shoes put on.
I've been trying to run with the old oil soaked shoes, and even though the parking brake works fine, I can still tell that the front brakes are doing too much of the work

when I did that, I noticed that there really didnt seem to be any oil at all on the passenger side, and that the drivers side might have had a tiny bit of oil film on the backing plate, but didnt seem like it was coming from the axle at the moment.

when I pull it to check what you mentioned, I will see if there is any more oil...as I cleaned it thoroughly

DRCOFFEE

So I rotated the tires and peeked inside the axle housing through the ABS sensor hole. Still dry going on 40,000 miles and 3 years.

Left side: the wetness around the opening was from WD40 and the lube in the hole was from the silicone lube I used the last time I opened it up. The ABS ring is dry.


Right side: I wiped it clean but the ABS ring is dry.

aowRS

Last year I replaced all four wheel bearings and the rear seals. In order to do the bearings, I purchased a complete axle housing and made my own SST with half of the housing.

If you'd like the remaining half (it has ABS), I'd be happy to send it to you.








Andreas

aowRS

DRCOFFEE,
Just to follow up and keep this thread active:

I pulled the passenger side axle last weekend since I knew the backing plate was once again wet with oil. This after installing new bearings and seals one year & 30,000 miles ago...

This time I followed your thinking and reversed the spacer ring (that the oil seal rides on). To ensure that the spacer ring was as far INBOARD as possible, I marked the tapered collar inside the axle housing with some yellow paint. Then I pressed the ring onto the axle shaft until it covered the polished section. Inserted axle into the housing, turned it, and it was obvious that the axle couldn't go all the way in. Pressed the ring onto the shaft a bit further and repeated the process 5 or six times until the paint mark was no longer disturbed.

This time I drove the oil seal all the way into its recess. With the spacer where I wanted it, I placed some bearing grease around it and then carefully inserted the axle through the new seal and all the way into the housing. Then I removed it and noted that the seal lip had wiped off the grease on half of the spacer ring. Perfect.

Let's hope for success this time...


The joy...




My spacer ring setup from last year



Current install






Andreas

DRCOFFEE

Glad you gave it a try. You may never need to worry about it again. If you used oem seals, they should last your lifetime.

I would like you to send the axle housing end but the cost of shipping for something that size and weight is somewhere near $50. I dont want to waste any more time on this simply to prove a proven repair. Some people are good at spatial concepts and others need to see before they grasp it. If I havent clearly made my case by now, I am sorry because I just dont know how to dumb it down any further. The info is now finally out there after 19 years since the start of production of the 3rd gen truck.

Its been 3 years and 40,000 miles and I have continuously updated my results with success each time. I consider this repair a proven success and its now up to members to decide if they "believe" me and all the others who have done it my way or the wrong (old) way. LOL

engifineer

Wanted to add to this thread (and thanks for creating it).

I took my axles to a shop when I did the seals a couple of months ago to have them do the press work. Then found out recently it was WAY off .. no where near the retainer. The dealership near me knows how to do it right they say, but said they would have to redo the whole job, minimum of $600 but probably more.

My solution? Well, a few things:

Even though the ABS ring is pressed in way too far, ABS is working and I have no ABS light on.

Retainer is pressed right against the ABS ring of course.

Happens to be I have a set of retainers on the shelf. They came with the bearings I first ordered using someone elses writeup on here (Ends with fish or something like that). Turns out when I ordered those bearings with the part number in the writeup, you get the wrong bearings (those are the non ABS version from what I can tell). But, through all the mix ups, etc I ended up with an extra set of retainers that came with those bearings.

The retainers I had have a tiny bevel, not nearly as much as the ones originally on the vehicle. So I could really install them either way and have plenty of seal area.

So, long story short, I bought a press. Cost $200 at HF for a 20 ton unit. Needed an excuse to buy one, and it saved me a minimum of $400 if I would have had the work done at the stealership.

I cut the old retainer carefully, then broke it with a chisel, and installed the new ones at about 3mm from the start of the polished surface. The seal is now riding right in the middle of the retainer like it should. And since I didnt get the ABS light or issues I just left the tone ring where it was. I will monitor but am pretty sure this will take care of it.

As a note (I almost found this out the hard way). With a little bit of heat from a small propane torch, the retainer will go on with almost no effort. I put mine on the shaft and it literally fell all the way down. I luckilly yanked it back off before it cooled and shrunk into place But if you had something in place as a stop, you could heat the ring and drop it right on.

DRCOFFEE

That is a good tip to know. So anyone who is not replacing the bearings could simply cut off the old retainer and replace it just by heating it and placing it in position. Thank you

Jason B

How are things holding up since the repair?

DRCOFFEE

See post #55

Jason B

Dr Coffee, where are you located?