blackdog76

I replaced the calipers pads rotors and rear shoes on my 2000 4runner. Everything is new and I used the huge 13wl calipers.

#1 I can't bleed air out of the system. Fluid comes out clear of bubbles at all four corners, bled one at a time from furthest away from the MC to closest. Even tried bleeding the MC at the output lines. When engine is running and the brake is depressed I can hear an air gushing noise. When I stand next to the engine compartment and listen it seems to be comming from the ABS box when the pedal is depressed, then from the MC area when the pedal is let off??? When the engine is off, pressing the pedal once makes the air noise, then pressed again, it's gone with the pedal all the way at the top. I don't get it....

#2 There is a weird thumping sound comming from the passenger side caliper. Only happens at moderate to hard stops but somethings wrong there.

#3 Pulling slightly to the right also

FogRunner

Are they new or used calipers? As far as the pulling the air could be an issue or you could have a contaminated pad/rotor or a bad caliper. You can take the caliper off and hose the pads and rotor with a good amount of brake clean.

As far as bleeding the brakes I had the same problem I could bleed and bleed but I could feel air in the system. I had neigbhor who is a big truck mechanic and he told me when they are like that you have to use some force on them.

I hooked up a hose and stuck it in a cup with a little brake fluid and he started to slowly push it and it came out clean then he got midevil on the brakes and mashed it HARD (almost blew the hose out of the cup) and a crap load of bubbles came running out. After that it the system worked great.

Sometimes bubbles will cling to spots in the lines and a slow gentle pumping won't break them loose. I wouldn't have thought there was any valitity to his method is I didn't see it myself.

blackdog76

They are brand new calipers. Took the car to a local shop and the tech said the MC was shot after taking it for a spin. He also told me that the caliper that was making noise was installed incorrectly somehow. I checked it and it's fine. I'm thinking about returning it for another.

desertcamper67

That air sound is just your power brake booster. Is stops making that with the engine off after one pump because you have depleted the vaccuum in the booster canister. Normal.
Its fairly common to hurt a somewhat older master cylinder by bleeding the brakes. If you take the pedal farther than its 'normal' travel (which often happens when bleeding), it can push the plunger into pitted parts of the bore of the master cylinder. Like most hydraulics, the portion of the shaft that rides through a seal stays polished and 'shiney', while the areas that never get swiped can get pitted, corroded or (if steel) rusted. This rough surface can then easily rip or fold down a seal lip making holding pressure impossible.

I hope that helps. I've been drinking and am trying to make sense.

blackdog76

I have a new MC on order either way but I don't see any leaks behind mine. The tech said they can leak internally but I've never heard of that before.

Ritzy4Runner

iTrader: (1)

The internal leakage he is referring to is the seals associated with the piston. My son's Acura had a similar issue, press on the brakes and it would solwly bleed down to the floor and no loss of fluid anywhere. Swapped out his old MC for a replacement, bled the brakes and it worked fine. If you are getting a brake shimmie on that one rotor, it could possibly be a warped rotor new, or it just could be mismatched on the spindle. One thing you could try is remove the rotor and rotate it one to two lug nuts, recenter and check for correct true spin, mount your caliper and wheel. take down the lugnuts and center them torquing them cross star pattern with progressive torques to the max correct value and test drive. You may need to replace that rotor if that doesn't take care of the issue.

blackdog76

I'm thinking it was a caliper problem. It only happened when I would hit the brakes moderately hard. The car would also pull slightly to the right under braking. I didn't skimp on the rotors, they are Advanced technology rotors and from what they claim they are supposed to have better run-out than factory specs. It's possible that it's the rotor, but the new caliper should be in today, so we'll see what happens. I had to return the master cylinder that Keagen gave me. Somebody had tried to install it before, no bleeder plugs, and it was covered with brake fluid.

blackdog76

Update:
I think you were right about the rotor. I replaced the caliper and the same thing happens. Thumps pretty bad even though it looks like it spins straight with the wheel off. I replaced the MC and the thing stops really nice now, but....

The brake line coming out of the MC toward the booster is seeping a little fluid after a test drive. It's an A-1 Cardone Master cylinder and I highly suggest staying away from this brand. The fist MC I got was missing parts, and had gouges all over it like it had been through hell. Not to mention that I was used already and was drenched in brake fluid??? I had to return it and the replacement wasn't much better. Same Cardone crap, looks like junk compared to my stock unit, and the bore must not have been perfectly true because even with the lines tightened to the old mechanics feel max, the rear line leaks a little. Man, I'm really looking forward to returning it and buying a more expensive quality one and then doing the bleeding process all over again. I think I'm going to someone. I don't know how they think they can get away with quality control that bad. Yeah I know it's not OEM but dude, maybe they can actually sell something that ACTUALLY WORKS? Something that would make me feel good about installing it on the family wagon?

Both calipers are alsonA-1 Cardone. My calipers and MC are made from cores that are absolute junk, bottom of the barrel, put together by ing monkeys!!!! The caliper that I returned was dragging and missing parts. The one that came in as a replacement was gouged all over and looks like crap. It does work OK but one of the piston boots was folded in so I had to pull it out before installing it. Since I returned one I have had the chance to see three of them and they all look like they were assembled at three different slave labor camps with whatever was laying around at the time. The one on my driver's side is gold with silver zinc bolts, the one on my passenger side is raw steel with raw steel bolts. The one I returned was raw steel with gold zinc colored bolts. I painted them both dark grey metallic so they wouldn't look like such rag muffin crap.

Don't even get me started now on Raybestos. I bought their top of the line advanced technology rotors, the ones that NAPA sells repackaged at top dollar, and it's warped out of the box. They are suposed to have less runout than OEM! I guess they forgot to check mine. As a matter of fact, just stay away from Kragen, Checker, Shucks, O'Rieleys, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. All they sell is crap. I know you get ripped at Toyota but look at what I've gone through. This has been ongoing to two weeks now.

seanmearse

Hmmm. Wierd. Maybe the idler arm I had purchased for my old 4runner 3 years ago is bad- nope still good. Hmm, maybe the shocks are bad, nah still good.

Ahh, let me run out and check the shocks on the 84, nope still good. Maybe the a'c compressor on it is bad, nope, ice cold on an 84.

Point being, you had a bad experience.


And the names O'Reilly, i think thats what our shirts and paychecks say...

FogRunner

If you want quality brake parts buy Wagner products. Their calipers and master cylinders are OEM quality and their ceramics pads are some of the best out there.

I agree about the Raybestos rotors I've had several with excessive run out, thats why I went with Wagner, they have a life time warranty on them.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

i'm a personal fan of brembo o.e rotors and akebono pads. They work real well for imports.

seanmearse

guess who carries wagner now? yuppers- O'Reilly's

Ritzy4Runner

iTrader: (1)

Dude, really sorry you had so much trouble. I purchased Toyota OEM parts off a 2001 Tundra out of a "used auto parts vendor" (read that as wrecking yard) and after inspecting several sets decided on the ones I purchased, had the rotors turned at NAPA for $28, resurfaced the installed pads and then installed the entire setup on my 98 and its been great ever since, (Jun 08). I guess it was just unfortunate , but I believe if you tried different bands then the ones you purchased and who you purchased from you would have a better experience, but as you said, the experience has left a rather sour taste in your mouth. Going with your local toyota dealer next time may be the way for you to go, but do some internet reseach next time, or ask for recommendations here. Geez sorry for your misfortune.

FogRunner

Whats wrong with O`Reilly ?? I prefer them any day over Vato-zone, or advanced auto when I need real car parts. Now if I want car wax, cleaner ETC Advance auto's selection beats them all.

cackalak han

For rotors, I look no further than Autozone. IIRC, they are the only auto parts store that has warrantees on the rotors (2 years). Replaced my Tacoma rotors with Duralast and ceramic pads and they're still doing great after 28k miles. Lots of mountain passes, too.

As far as quality, they're all the same, IMO--O'Reilly's, Autozone, AA, NAPA. Although I exclusively buy NAPA Gold oil filters (WIX).

seanmearse

Nah, I was refering to that as a good thing, Im an employee here in ridgecrest.

seanmearse

We have had a 2 year warranty on our rotors for the whole 3 years I have been at kragen (now O'Reilly's).