hueydok

Hi guys. Yes, it is the age-old question - how to eliminate rear-end sag while adding minimal lift? I know this has been discussed and answered many times, but I have literally spent hours searching and have yet to find answers to my three questions below.

1) Scenario: stock 02 LTD 4WD Runner with slight rear end sag and a strange lean to the right front. Desired result: Provide modest lift to get back what Toyota stole from me after the 1999 model year, fix the rear end sag and provide firmer support when loading camping equipment. Note that I have the HD Bilsteins all around. Proposed solution: PP 1" progressive springs all around or Downey 1.5" springs in back and new factory in front or 99 factory in front.

Note that I am 90% on-road and do not mind a firmer ride, but I do NOT want any solution that will require other upgrades like panhard bar, diff drop, brake sensor bracket, etc.

Right away I figured out that putting on 1999 coils all around would seem to solve most of my problem. However, I am concerned that the 99 coils, being factory, are not actually any stiffer but are just higher, so within some months or miles the sag would come back. Then I thought about putting the Downey HD coils on the back, but what can I put on the front? Finally, it seems that PP progressive 1" coils all around would also be acceptable, yet I heard they are no longer manufactured and seemingly not able to be found for my model year?

Before I get flamed here, the reason I feel my post is different than most is that 99% of the solutions already posted are for people wanting 2" lift or more, etc. I want to keep everything stock but the shocks (already done) and the coils to give me some more height, firmer support in the rear end for loads/trailers, and a level ride.

Thanks many times in advance for your advice. I have also mailed with Steve Sonoran and reviewed his System 3 package, so that is also an option but I really don't want to throw away my billies and that would put me back on 99 springs with the risk of sagging again (I think).

Sorry for the length here - and thanks again for any advice or suggestions!

SoCalPaul

Performance Product springs are no longer available. I think your best bet would be '99 coils all around & re-use your Bilsteins.

hueydok

Thanks, SoCalPaul. Not the news I wanted to hear about PP springs, since they seem to have been a good choice and I see that you had them AND have them as well! I am hoping that perhaps someone has some for sale or knows of a secret stash, eh?

Anyway - do you think my fears are unfounded that the 99 coils would just end up sagging the same as my factory 02 coils did? That was the primary reason for thinking Downey's for the rear (similar height boost but firmer support), but still need something for the front. Or, perhaps due to their extra coil the 99's would actually hold a little weight in the rear better? I have seen a few posts about that...

twitchee2

Have you looked into putting some air bags in the back? You could put the 99 coils in to fix the sag and have a set of airlift 1000's in there there when you need the extra carrying capacity. I ran that for a while and it worked well. I still have the bags in my OME coils but those are lift coils and not what you are looking for.

Godzilla

Nope, this post is no different than many others who have searched for the same question. Most common answer is OME 880 with trim packers or 881's in the front and 906's in the rear.

SoCalPaul

It looks like I got lucky. From what I can tell from other posts, I got one of the last available sets. When 4Wheel Parts purchased Performance Products, the springs were discontinued. The springs were made by H&R springs. I checked their website & they list the rears for a 2nd gen, but not for the 3rd gen. You could try emailing them.

One_96TR4

This is the route I'd take. Mild lift and more heavy duty springs. Or 99's with air bags in the rear isn't a bad choice either.

hueydok

HI guys. Thanks to all for the suggestions. With regard to the 881's in the front and the 906's in the rear, I did not go that route since I have the HD Billies (yellow and blue) and thought (and have been told) that combination would result in a wooden wagon since I would have both HD springs and shocks. I have seen a few posts about people running the OME springs with Billies, however, but it was unclear which model they had.

So in summary, one suggestion is to go with OME front 880 or 881 and rear 960 ... AND use my existing Billies (2450 front and 2451 rears)... AND not have to mess with a panhard rod, extension plates, diff. drop, etc., etc.?

hueydok

Hi guys. One question about using the 881/906 combo. I have been told that using those OME springs with the HD Bilsteins may result in an extremely harsh ride (wagon wheel like!). What are your experiences or thought about that combination? I do like the firmness of the HD Billies, so do not want to go down to a softer shock.

I also have a lead on some *used* PP springs, so that remains a possibility, even though it would give me a little less lift.

nieuwendyk-25

BUMP....

I would like the answer to this question too....ANYBODY??

hueydok

Well - since I am the original poster I will answer my own question - sort of. I have decided to go with the OME 881 front and 906 rear, and will be pulling my HD Bilsteins in favor of the OME shocks front and rear. I was going to go with the comforts but I have stock sway bars and tow a boat so I chose the normal shocks instead. I have frequently read that even the non-comfort OME shocks are softer than the Bilsteins, so I think I will still have a good combination. Still waiting on the shocks and springs - ordered from Iron Pig Offroad (Virginia) and they will assemble the fronts for me as well (something TRDParts4U does not do), which will be a big timesaver for installation.

So - in the past month I started with a stock 02 Limited and have done the following maintenance and other 'stuff': Airbox mod, new Denso plugs, new OEM wires, new front sway bar bushings, differential/transfer case oil changes (and replaced crappy OEM plugs with 10MM hex plugs in all three units - fill and drain), and finally a full driveshaft lube (never been done in 90K miles). Oh yeah - also wired the stock stereo to allow me to plug in my Ipod Nano - all the MP3's I want! Once I get the new shocks and springs, I will be good to go for awhile and will post some pics of before and after their installation.

If no one responds or comments or has any questions I will probably close this thread to keep the boards clean from my posts.

P.S. If anyone has interest in the Bilsteins let me know - about 25K miles on them.

Cheers!

02_Limited

I'll be looking back to this thread if you update it with pics. I have an '02 as well but am still on stock suspension. I had some Daystar spacers on a while back but hated how they rode. So I'm back to stock height. Let me know how you like the OME setup. If I make enough money over the next few months I'll be pulling the trigger on a lot of parts.

nieuwendyk-25

I have hated the Bilsteins from day one (see sig) so I will have no problem ditching them. Mine are not harsh...they just have no rebound control which make the vehicle handle in an unpredictable manner. My 70K mile original shocks were better.

I am wondering if Tokico Trekmasters would work with the OME springs and give favorable results.

Mulkey

I have the 881 and 890 springs with comfort shocks. Still very firm but solid. Not sure how much difference is between the two shocks but I wish they made a more comfort shock. lol

hueydok

Well - here we are in the beginning of June and I finally installed my 881/906 package last Saturday. Installation went smooth and it is being aligned at my local shop as I write this. I will post a before and after pic this evening.

One thing I see in hindsight is that I *may* should have gone with the 880 instead of the 881 coils in front. The truck is now just about level (maybe 1/2 inch rake), but as the 906 coils settle in over the next few months I am concerned I will be back to a sag rear-end. Other posts indicate the fix was to put higher springs in the back, but as I originally posted, I just wanted a nominal lift without any other big changes. I also have no plans to change the stock front bumper.

I emailed ARB to get their 'official' opinion, but I may consider ordering the 880 coils just to see how it will affect the truck since they are 10mm less in height.

Any opinions? Godzilla mentioned in his post about using 880's with trim packers or 881's, but I would ask why not just 880's all by themselves? Are they too short when paired with 906 rear?

Anyway - I look forward as always to responses.

nieuwendyk-25

Can you post some pics please...I am very interested in this! By the way 10mm is only about the width of your little finger....not much difference..

Godzilla

I added the trim packer for S&G's as I was tring to compile all that I read about the OME setups to work for me.
The 881's up front will probably sag a bit as well and you should stay pretty level throughout. Check out posts by MTL_4Runner as he has documented the 881's with the rears pretty good.

hueydok

OK - I have just two pics of before and after. When I wear down these Michelins I will go up to the Nittos.

Alignment went well today, although they were BARELY able to get the Caster in spec. Biggest problem was the toe-in as a result of the OME front end, but that was easily taken care of.

One other thing - the rear lift definitely kicked the rear axle to the right just a tad - I would estimate 3/8 of an inch. Undecided if I will get the adjustable track bar - doubt it for now. I also can *feel* more than hear a rumble from the front end at higher speeds - not sure if it is the higher angle on the C/V's or not, since they are clearly not too extreme. I also rotated all tires in an X pattern, so I could just be hearing some rough tread from the formerly rear tires. I wil monitor and see if it goes away, but again, I really don't think it is worth a diff. drop, even if it is that easy.

One last thing - I read alot about the PITA the rear shocks are in removing and installing the new ones. I did not have any problem - with the wheels removed and the spring out of the way, I could easily get a 3/8 inch ratchet with a deep well 17 mm socket right on top of the nut, and just held onto the shock while loosening and tightening. Of course I could not turn the ratchet much more than a 5th of a turn, but I used to be a helicopter mech. for the military and this was nothing! Installation of the front assemblies was a cinch - total time for front and rears was less than 2 hours, including jacking and removing the wheels. If fact, while I was there I replaced my front brake pads with new OEM pads - they were past 75% worn and I noticed the difference immediately!

OK - enough babble. I have attach three pics - before, after and one of the CV angle.

nieuwendyk-25

Hmm, you got me worried now....

kmcaprice14

The problem you see is why I went with 890s in the rear. Its been almost a year and no sag at all, and a wonderful ride when paired to the trekkmasters. Heck, it even rides well will with load range D 285 ATs. Hopefully, you like your setup, but if it starts to sag, throw some 890s back there and never look back.