Doogs

Today I got my 3.0 from the mechanic (valves.. ). He's a long time toyota man so I asked him about headers, air filters and the like. The whole shop cringed when I brought up the possibility of adding headers.

This is like the third time I have had mechanics chuckle when I asked about getting power from my 3.0 by adding headers. After some more persistence I asked them to quote me the price of doing the job. Headers air cleaner and exaust was over 1200 bucks... Downey says about 10 hours labor on the headers..

On to the interesting stuff. My mechanic said if I had my heart set on headers he had another 4runner in the shop just like mine, but it has the downey headers, exaust, air filter and he let me take it for a "supervised" spin.

The difference in power was minor to my surprise. You know that feeling you get after a tuneup and there seems to be a tiny bit more pep? That was literally the difference between this 4runner with hundreds of dollars in upgrades and mine.

I will not be getting any headers.

In my opinion, if you can get the chance to drive a modded 3.0 before putting hundreds into it I highly suggest doing it. It is good to know what to expect for your investment. For me it did'nt work out.


Cheers,

--D

ayoung101

what about the 4cyl engine (22re)? my exhaust is shot so i need a new one of those, but i was thinking of doing headers at the same time. would it not be worth it? anyone with a 4cyl done this?

4what

A header is easier & cheeper to do on the 4, since theres only one. If your doin exhaust work anyway that'd be the time to do it, so it I'd say it'd be more cost & performance worthy to do on a 4cyl.

williemon

When my 90 needed a valve job I sprung for DOA to port and polish the heads and regrind the cams. I asked Tim about headers and he said the stock manifolds work as well as any header out there for the 3.0. His theory was that the manifolds did their job well, but that the size of the stock exhaust was too small. Many people here say not to go over a 2.25" exhaust, but Tim suggested a 2.5" on a stock motor as well as a modded motor. So after I got all the stuff back and had it reinstalled on my motor that already had a 2.25" cat back, the difference was.....well minor. At least it ran properly now so I was thankful. A few months later I needed to replace the Dynomax muffler anyway. I opted to have installed a full 2.5" exhaust from the down pipe back including a new hi flow cat and dynomax muffler. Once I got it back I ran it on my favorite testing streach of road. I gained a full 5 to 8 mph top speed (around 70) between points A and B on that road. Off the line seemed to feel about the same, but once I hit 3K rpms, it seemed to take off. I have also in my testing clocked a 13.5 second 0 to 60 time. This is with an auto tranny 4 runner with 30" tires with 4.10 gearing. (stock for 28" tires)

It seems that most of these mods help with upper rpm HP and breathing. So far nothing has given me the off the line kick and low rpm guts that I really wanted. Im thinking of bumping the timeing up a few notches as some here has suggested should help with some off the line kick. If I were to do it again I would leave the whole thing stock. The only thing I might change in that case would be the exhaust from the downpipe back. That is a much cheaper area to mod and only takes around an hour or so. Be warned though that even with the same model of Dynomax muffler, the hiflow cat makes the exhaust note louder.

Doogs, test your 0 to 60 time and post the time here to compare. Id like to know how my modded motor compares to other stock motors. Is yours an AT or manual? How many miles do you have on it?

My mods cost me an extra 1500.00 for what I think is only a very mild power boost. Not worth it for my needs. If I were trying to turn 33s or 38s in some deep mud and needed to run 4k+ rpms then these mods would help, but not for my daily driving needs.

metalhed

I have a header on my 22r and the improvement was minimal. I can hold a gear longer and have some extra top end power, but nothing astonishing or amazing. I have a Downey header that required some fab work to hook up to the rest of the exhaust. From what I hear the LCE Header is a true bolt on product, minimal fabbing.

williemon

Oops, I just noticed that I posted some of this info on one of your posts already. Oh well, gave me a chance to up my post count. Anyway, when I was thinking about doing these mods, I search for as much info on several boards and did not get the detail that I wanted, so I decided that i would take the plunge and then post my impressions as best as I could describe so others would know. I dont wish to tell anyone to do these things or not do them, but just want to provide as much detailed info about what I wanted, what I did and how it works with my driving needs in case someone else looking for what I was looking for is thinking about these mods.
Later!!!

Doogs

This is also not to say that others might get different results than I experienced. The 4runner I drove could have had unknown issues that I was not aware of.
---------------
Williemon,

Damn, thats a good point.. I wished I had them do the extra machining ..

My stats are:
94 4runner
140k miles
AT
Drop in K&N
New block at 64k miles (blown head gasket, resulting in free block from Toyota )
New valves at 140k miles
Jimmyrigged turbo muffler with 2.5 back and a few exaust leaks.
31 10.50 goodyear ATS's
Stock gears

I'll do some tests on a flat strech of road this weekend and will post the results.

Churnd

I can tell the difference between mine and another guy with a stock truck just like mine. I guess it all depends on how you set it up.

Doogs

Agreed Churned,

This was hardly a scientific test. The two lessons for me were;

1. A lot more needs to go into setup and balancing with the right components than I thought.

2. Have realistic expectations.

Duffdog

i agree, i once drove a pickup with a 22re header-- didnt really do too much for me, it was even slower than my 4runner with just a TRD cam and 2.25" exhaust.
T

DiSperlonga

That's good to know. I was thinking of putting headers on my 22RE truck. Did the TRD cam make a noticeable difference on your 4Runner?

Poke Runner

I was thinking about putting headers on my 3.4, but this thread really sheads a new light on the subject.

I asked a coworker about installing new headers and he had an '88 22re I think and he said it made a big difference.

What I want to know is what's the difference between the $800+ TRD headers and a set that is significantly cheaper? Are you paying for the name or is there a difference in quality or performance?

Fahrenheit 451

Personally, I think headers on a 22re are great, but only if you go the full monty. If you put a header on a stock motor with the stock cat, muffler and pipe, I think all you are doing is very slightly changing the characteristics of the pulse and scavenging of the exhaust.
How's that for reiterating stuff I don't understand :wtf: HA!
Seriously, if you only change the header the results will be minimal because you will still be trying to stuff the exhaust through narrow pipe into an old cat that probably wasn't made to be free flowing, through more narrow pipe into a baffled muffler that was most likely made to be quiet and not so much efficient at getting the exhaust out.
I have an LCEngineering header with a free flow cat and chambered muffler all hooked together with 2.25" pipe and the difference is very noticeable both in off the line performance and in maintaining good back pressure. It'll get up and go, but still go downhill without running away.
The only thing I would change would be a moot point now. When I got all the setup currently in my truck I was buying a TON of stuff from LC (around $4500+) and went ahead and got their old style header even though it is 16 gauge pipe. NEVER AGAIN! I hate the underhood noise. Even with header wrap at the top end of the headers to cut some heat and in theory produce better torque I hate the engine compartment sound of the headers. I would never go with anything less than 14g in the future.
Of course, there is another consideration; the neighbors. My 85 efi 4Runner with an LC EFI Pro 22re in it would put to shame a some teenager driving a Chevy with a 350 and glasspacks. It is almost absurdly loud, but damn it sounds good! VROOM!
I bet none of my neighbors will miss it when it's gone LOL! I'm selling it to make room for my "new" '93 4Runner and my new 4 wheel drive lifestyle with a baby in the truck.

Duffdog

yes, the cam actually did something, unlike the headers+exhaust+pipe combo that might add 8hp if your lucky. My truck is noticeably faster now with the trd stage 1 cam, that was the best 149 i ever spent.

T

MTL_4runner

I believe the TRD ones are stainless steel but you can get the cheaper ones cramic coated as well and still be way under the price of a TRD set. Performance will likely be exactly the same or a negligible difference. Many here prefer to just go the cheaper route with the Downeys and ceramic coat them.

4Runner1988

I agree that you have to be realistic, and do what makes you happy and fits your budget. I went with the Comp cam and Downey header. I will be able to tell you the difference these made on Monday night. All I really want is the same realiability as the stock components and a bit of added performance. Knowing that items work well, in conjuntion with other parts, I will soon have to purchase a cat back exhaust and free flow cat.

There is a world of mods you can perform to these engines, which means there are literally thousands of combinations. Also....I beleive that you can over build somthing. I mean its nice to say you have a 170hp 22RE....but thats also like saying I use my dragster as a daily driver.

You need to determine what you want your truck to do, and be. If you use it mainly as a trail rig and dont depend on it for daily transportation.....build the heck out of it.

What was I talking about again. .......sorry its friday.....time for a I am not going to be able to enjoy this weekend in my 4Runner.......wont be ready till Monday.

partszar

I just installed the TRD level 1 cam in my 22re last month. did it make a difference? Hell yes. Does it have the torque of a SBC or SBF nope. But then I knew it wouldn't. I dont have a header on it I just modified my exhaust from the down pipe on back to 2.25 inches. I'm happy with the result and the cost (less than 150.00).

kyle_22r

i drove an '80 4x4 with a pretty well built 22R in it(header, cam and weber carb) and that thing really hauled! had much more power than most of the other trucks i've drivin. i've decided that i'm just going to build my 20R when it comes time to tear it apart, should be good enough for me

Emil In Wyoming

A little off the original post, my '96 picked up a lot of low end and midrange oomph with Downey headers, a high-flow cat and Flowmaster. Really increased the RPM range as well.
Emil

midiwall

Oh my ears perked up here...

I've been toying with the idea of running a more agressive cam. tee-hee.

What kind of hours did it take you to put in?


For another 2 cents on headers... I'm one of the people that Jamie (MTL_4runner) spoke of that went with the ceramic Downeys over TRD. Obviously I wasn't in a spot that I could compare the two side-by-side on _my_ truck, but Im happy with what I got out of the Downeys. There's more torque off the line and more even pull up through 3400 rpm or so.

A word on pipe size... When I first put on a freeflow muffler (before the headers), I ended up running 3" pipe from the cat to the muffler and out the tail. My intent was looking for a deeper sound, what I got was weezing and a HUGE lack of power.

I had the shop re-do the piping with 2.5" pipe and everything (sound and power) came back. Added the headers and it kicked up another notch. I was (am!) happy.

I have a chart that Dr. Zhivago found that basically says that 2.25" pipe for stock exhaust or free-flow, 2.25"-2.5" for free-flow with headers, and 2.5" for S/C. From my experience, those are solid values to work with.