the devils advocate says:

there will be day when to gas supply will not be there, or the cost will force automobile owners to consider alternative fuels and alternative transportation methods.

commuting on a bicycle is great way to cut down on gas consumption. especially for those trips to get a movie, some beer etc.

 

I'm pretty up the middle on gas...I think we're getting a raw deal (Bush and his white house aren't going to stop the oil companies from overcharging for obvious reasons) but........

we are still using it, so why would they lower the price if nobody is telling them to. Ecomics baby. If I could screw you for something I made that you'd keep buying in droves, you can be damn sure I'd do it.

I don't like paying $30+ for a tank in Missouri at $1.89 for 89/91 but I'm not gonna whine about it. I knew my truck got ˟˟˟˟ mileage when I bought it. No great shock there. If you're gonna be a sissy about it, buy a Civic.

Bill (The Happy Libertarian) Burge

 

Gas here in Nova Scotia Canada today hit $4.50/ gallon for supreme. Now that's robbery. About $ 60 to $63 to fill from empty

 

Not nearly as bad down south, I pay about $25 for a full tank of regular. Still alot worse than it used to be, used to be able ot get a full tank for under $20.

 

BTW guys, I'm joking about hi-jacking part, I dont want CNN review about the political agenda and resulting global issues......... Yes we all know SUVs guzzle gas with bigger engine and heavier weight. Im just ranting, because 2.12per gallon is ABSURD, dont you think? and Im sure even Civic drivers feel the same way. from $15bucks a tank to $20+ is a big leap for any gas buyers.

 

Full tank for $25?! I just paid $37!! And it only lasts me about a week, sometimes more.

 

AMEN. PREACH IT.

 

HA! i hate to tell you, but 50 mpg is absolutely TERRIBLE compared to what is POSSIBLEBY TODAY'S STANDARDS. unfortunately, what is put on the market is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY underneath what is possible. i'm an automotive engineer. i'm a senior student at a prestigious automotive university funded primarily by GM. we can VERY easily create an automobile (even the biggest SUV) that can get 100+ mpg without barely even trying. they are made to have such low efficiency for a reason. $$$$$ talks. if i remember correctly, the world record was like 2000 miles on a gallon of gas. granted, the "car" was a specially designed bullet that fit 1 small person and they had to lie down flat to fit in, but that just goes to show you that we DO have the technology to make more efficient engines. luckily toyota and honda realized that we're screwing ourselves by allowing the gas companies to do this crap to us and that in a few short years we'll be out of gasoline and they created the hybrid. at my school, we have a fully operational hydrogen powered truck. other than the massive amount of advertisements on it, you can't tell it's not a gasoline. it runs beautifully. performs about the same. we're also starting to get into heavy research for other types of fuel cells as well.

 

I thought the same thing when I lived in Virginia Beach. Come out to SoCal, and drink Oxnard tap water (I even run it through a PUR ultimate filter) and you will more than understand why people will pay for water.

~Bill

 

ayoung,

very interesting.

are you saying that there is collusion between 'big oil' and the auto companies. as much as i want to believe that is the reason why cars are so inefficient, i want to know how they "scratch each other's backs"---financially, that is.

for example, if auto mfgs built cars that could run at 90mpg, how would that help the gas companies? obviously, it wouldnt. BUT! i would assume that car sales would improve. also, if auto mfgs built these types of high mileage cars, what would or what *could* big oil do to hurt the auto mfg?

this is an interesting question isn't it?

now taken from the other side, what if what you are saying is true: that auto mfgs purposely build vehicles that do not get the best mileage they can. therefore, gas companies benefit from people filling up at the pump more often. so now, how do the car companies benefit? they certainly don't sell more vehilces. unless that is, they design vehicles that do not last more than 10 years. oh wait. thats a FORD!

no, in all seriousness, i am really intrigued by what you are saying. i'm thinking about starting a new thread about this if you're interested too. if so, i could (or you could) start a new topic.

and lastly, is this pretiguous university that you go to have a fight song that have the words "hail to the victors" in it? if so, GO BLUE!

bob

 

I just didn't want to stick my neck out to far I totally agree with you!! I can't believe other people didn't get the point when the car companies were crying over increasing the min. fuel economy! How can a person NOT see the connection with Big Oil and Automakers. First, if American Automakers keep spending millions in advertising to get America all hyped up on power and speed, and not say anything about economy, why would most even think about it. How many people with an SUV tow anything, or go off road? I would say an extremely liberal number is 25%. Second, Big Oil uses its puppets Bush and Chaney to keep the auto subsidies rolling in and to keep any new emission or economy controls on the back burner. Then you get the invasion of one of the largest oil producing countries in the world and the price jumps up 50 cents in 2 months. (I have my gas records that show 1.56 less then two months ago and now its up to 2.15 here). Its called market control, so what’s stopping you from charging what ever you want?

ayoung101 lets find a garage to rent and start making homemade engines, worked for Bill Gates right?! No joke, lets talk

Erich

 

Erich,

Ok, I'm gonna call you to the mat on this: prove your point w/ some facts. Seriously, its a pretty big statement you made there and I'd sure like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. What subsidies? From where are these subsidies coming from? And where are they rolling into? Obviously I don't know where you are coming from, so I'm willing to hear where you're getting your info from.

Moreover from your statement, you seem to assert that this is a Republican conspiracy. If that is the case, then Clinton was a Big Oil stooge too. To my knowledge, federal mileage and emission standards have NOT marketedly been pushed in the last decade.

Re auto mfgs spending money on advertising "power and speed", good god, man, thats what we want! i don't think this is a smoke and mirrors conspiracy to distract american car buyers from higher mileage vehicles. Its what we want! To further strengthen this point, on any given day, what are some of the most common topics here on Yotatech? More speed. More horsepower. Also, but to a lesser degree, how to improve mileage.

As for the gas prices, i'm not sure what you mean by "market control". you mean OPEC? in that case, i'm guessing you mean something more akin to the control of the amount of oil produced (OPEC is after all, a cartel). regardless, there are many reasons why gas prices are high and war in the ME causes instability, real and perceived, which then drives oil futures higher. was that what you are trying to say?

Anyways, I'm open to hearing what this collusion is about because part of me believes there is some connection, but part of me thinks that the collusion you (Erich) are saying sounds a bit partisan and (unfortunately) short of some key facts.

Bob

 

What! You think a 30% increase in the price of crude doesn't correlate to the price at the pump? If you watch gas prices and graph them to crude futures, you'll find a direct correlation between the two with gas leading the increase because futures are 60 - 90 day delivery but since the oil companies are famous for playing games with LIFO/FIFO, they justify instantaneous retail price increases. As for the reserves in the wildlife reserve, you are using the low end of the easily accessible estimate - it is 240 - 400 day 100% of the US needs. Since we wouldn't use it for 100% of our needs, more like 10%, you're looking at a 10 year supply of drillable oil. However, the amount trappped in rock for pressure and fracking is estimated 10 times the drillable amount. However, none of that is the long term solution - alternative fuels are.

 

All I know is this, until further notice, the Tundra is covered and inoperable in the garage until gas prices go down. $2.15 and up is way too expensive for gas for me, especially @ almost $50 a fill up.

 

i don't know the exact details about the whole thing. i just know that my school as well as several others does contests to see who can build the most efficient engine and whatnot, and that's about where i get my info from. i don't have inside info, but like you said, how could this possibly benifit car mfg's? the only thought i have on that is that $$$$$ talks. oil companies have a lot of $$$$$. like i said, i have ZERO inside info on it, it's just my opinion. oh, and if my university had the words "hail to the victors" in it, then it wouldn't be prestigious. it would be a WANNABE prestigious! haha, GO GREEN! actually, i don't go to state either. i go to kettering university (formerly known as GMI, or general motors institute)

 

i'd love to, unfortunately though, engine design isn't my specialty. i design the machines that BUILD the vehicles and their components. if i could bring on about a dozen or 2 friends of mine from school, we could do it no problem, start to finish.

 

I don't see anyone mentioning taxes. The taxes alone nearly double your cost at the pump. The thought of the government having anything to do with pricing is just wrong. Dems or Reps, we are all at the will of the M.E. and can only force our interests by secondary political and financial pressures and incentives.

IMO: We're much better off here in the states than most of our YT buddies. Ask Woody and others overseas what it's costing to fill up. I'll bet they pay almost twice what we do.

No crying here, and I drive about 2500-3500 miles a month. I visit the gas station for a fill up about every two - three days. I couldn't even tell you what I pay. Like Brian said, I need it so I buy it. I don't even consider what the cost is. If I cared, I'd get a Prius. Instead I bought an FJ40 (8-11 mpg )


Alt energy is going to be the way to go eventually, but for now I'll take the dino stuff.

I'm not worried about the sky falling either.



Doug M.

 

Actually I think taxes are and have been around 30 cents pergallon, federal, and around 10-15 state. Thats what the sticker on the pump says. As far as doubling the price, yes, 8 years ago when gas was 97 cents a gallon it would be nearly doulble. Now it's more like 50% more.
I'm just waiting for the hybrid lexus rx to come out, then I wont care about gas prices.

 

Gas just went up 8 cents today...$1.95 in CT for regular. Thank god i have my talon that gets about 32-34 a gallon.

 

I wish it was still only $1.95 a gallon here. I'm paying $2.15 for regular including a 3 cent discount. The Chevron near my house is getting $2.20 for regular.