Once you take inflation out of the equation, and compare prices against a set value(in this case 1996 dollars).
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0522.html
The picture changes. It is not that bad. Sure when I was sixteen, gas could be had for 80 cents a gallon, but I made 4.25 an hour. I'm much better off today.
Aaron

 

reduce our dependence on oil. in a few years, you will be able to get a rockin 4wheeler hybrid, 15 years in fuel cell. then the east will be taking war to the west in their economic vaccum. .02

 

I'm sorry but really...the sun's energy? How long has solar power research been in existence and in the context of this forum/debate (cars/vehicles), the closest thing that comes to a solar vehicle is a bug shaped, skinny tired vehicle. Furthermore, do you see a time where the sun's energy is harnessed to power a large city the size of Los Angeles? Or how about Seattle where there isn't enough sunny days?

All industrialized countries rely on oil and outside of the United States, nuclear power. I hardly see a time in the distant future where this will change.

and with respect to your assertion that there is something diabolical with closed door meetings, guess what? Presidents, executive staff members and politicians in all levels of state and federal government for that matter are ENTITLED to closed door meetings to meet with advisors, public, private, or quasi-government. Because it seems (from your writing) you are of the liberal persuasion and seem to think that there is some nefarious reason for the current administration's closed door meetings, it is nothing farther from the truth. Everyone does it. Why not type in the search terms "closed door meetings" and your favorite democratic politician and see what turns up?

And AF, good post. puts things in perspective.

Bob

 

Here's what ya need! Skinny tires and all. Built for Sunrayce 97 she had a top recorded speed of 88 mph, unlimited range at 60 mph (asuming the sun was shining), and required zero stops at the gas station. With the sun throwing down the frequenty quoted 1000 W/m^2, we do have options. Just have to pay for them.

 

whats funny is theres a shell gas station thats about a 25 minute drive from me. i happened to be heading out that way and randomly pulled in as i was getting low... turns out they have a whole organized system where people do a little uturn in their big lot to get in line.

the gas is SO cheap.

89 is around 1.87 or so everywhere else, at this station its 1.67.

they basically run off the theory that they can get more people through and make just as much if not more money. they also had a touchless carwash there. this is like my heaven! if only it wasnt 25 mins away....

 

I drive a 4Runner that needs regular gas. I have no idea what gas is here now a gallon nor do I care. I gotta have it to drive the 4Runner so I swipe my yellow sea shell card, pump my gas and drive down the road

Ignorance is bliss

 

GEEEZ....
Can you guys cry anymore .
My parents just got back from Florida and this is what it cost to fill up their rig.
http://home.att.net/~toddski/wsb/med...2/site1040.jpg
Here is a shot of the rig they were on.
http://home.att.net/~toddski/wsb/med...2/site1041.jpg

Actually my uncle is a big shot diesel mechanic. I guess he worked on a large private boat up here in the Seattle area and the owner was so impressed that he let my uncle and aunt along with my parents stay a week on his SMALLER boat down in Florida.
My dad said they were on one of the smaller boats in the marina

 

So Bob, you and Dick could go to Niagara Falls for your Honeymoon... You could tour the powerplant!

Oh wait, those are hydroelectric. Darn




And as for Solar:

The sun also generates wind! See, in an argument, my trick is to mention something so broad, that I can later say, "I already said that."



Seriously though, wind is a viable energy option, though not on as large a scale as solar.

I still think that solar can provide the energy needed to power even cloudy, totally depressing states like Washington... The trick is to put tons of money into research.

Why not use solar to charge huge capacitors that might separate water into hydrogen and oxygen... then pipe or truck it to whatever states need it, and burn each in the other to generate electricity and produce water as a byproduct?

It might sound ridiculous now, but 50 years ago, the CEO of IBM saw a world where the might really be a market for five computers. As in, five computers in the entire world. Technology will solve all of our problems! I mean, we'll soon see how great the world can be in iRobot...

So you never know.

Luckily we've got Japanese companies to look to for hybrids, as American auto manufacturers sure as hell don't care.

I don't think nuclear is the way to go. Too much waste that no one wants and that can't really be stored anywhere that might be even remotely safe...

"Ehh, we'll just shove it under a mountain in Nevada."



Edit: Toddski, I didn't realize your parents were Kurt Russel and Goldie Hawn! Were you little Joe? You know, the kid who talked like Pee-Wee Herman?

Don't get it, go here.

 

Quote:

Edit: Toddski, I didn't realize your parents were Kurt Russel and Goldie Hawn! Were you little Joe? You know, the kid who talked like Pee-Wee Herman?

That was a great show!

 

I'm not gonna cry about as prices.... what's the point. Besides, after the sale of my kidney for the last fill up I have no more stregnth to wine. Up in my neck of the woods it's not uncommon to find hippies and even "liberal rednecks" all teared up because some tree was chopped down and it fell on some rare toad. GET OVER IT. The buffalo got exactly what they deserved!

 

anybody here heard of thermal depolymerization? it's basically a process that can be used to make oil out of anything carbon based. it's very efficient, because it can use stuff like turkey offal, which has stored energy(from feed etc) to create oil, minerals and gas, and the machines run off some of the gas as well eliminating the need for more fuel.

think about it...a process that turns waste into gasoline, fertilizer and water very efficiently. i believe there are only 1 or 2 plants in the US right now, but more are planned. it doesn't solve our needs for a cleaner fuel, but i'd imagine it could definitely make an impact on the need for imported fuel, and keep us from running out of dino juice

 

don't get me wrong I love my 4runner and I knew what the mpg were when I got it. The mpg is still better than quite a few trucks out there. That still doesn't mean that I like the increased gas prices (which happens w/o reason), but oh well it will probably come out to $100-200 extra per year or so that could have been spent on more fun things (tires, lift, beer, etc).
A change in the energy policy will not happen for a while in this country.
Finally it could be a sign of inflation on the way, milk just increase 1$/gallon her in california (time to add beer to the cornflakes)
Cheers

 

How many of you buy bottled water? Want to talk about a crime. People paying over a dollar for 20 oz of the worlds most abundant resource.

 

I don't. Paying for Detroit tap water bottled by Coke (Dasani) is a joke. But we may have to start drinking desalinated seawater in the future out here in the west.

 

I about died today paying 1.83 for regular. I live in arkansas, not california for God sakes, I don't have to put up with this! Imma have to devise a 4runner that can run on a wood stove.

 

Ilion,

Sorry dude, already married. So quite possibly you and Dick could take my place on the honeymoon and extract all the stuff he talked about in those evil, closed door meetings.

Look, anything is possible in this world if enough resources are poured into it BUT there is a point of diminishing returns. And when the cost does not outweigh the benefits, govt and businesses abandon it. While I'm sure that the improvements to solar energy and wind driven energy were great from year 1 to year 10, I'm almost convinced that the improvements gained today are much, much less per dollar.

I'm sure you've travelled through Palm Springs and up in the Bay Area (through the 580? or 680?) where there are big windmill farms. How much of the city's electricity is powered by these farms? Of the dozens of times I've driven through the one up north, I'd say only a few of the 40 or 50 (guesstimate) are ever turning. I'd love to find some info on that place but i'm too lazy right now and quite possibly, the energy produced (while free) is probably not enough to generate less than (another guess) 1 to 2% of the city's energy needs. Somehow, I don't think the technology for windmills will improve but quite possibly the way its stored might be.

Anyways, I guess this is the reverse of what your saying that there could be a good solution if more money was poured into R&D. I dont think that is the case though, and we can argue that point until the cows come home.

Bob

ps when are you buying the hydrogen powered Civic?

 

Honda?

Whatchu talkin' bout Bob?

This is a Toyota board after all...


I suppose there could and could be a Moore's law in terms of Solar or any other 'green' energy, but I still think it would be far off in the future. There is still quite a bit of potential in alternative energy sources. Hell, there was an article on Slashdot a few weeks back about new advances in Cold Fusion.

It just doesn't make sense that we, and by extension government, should spend over a billion dollars a year (this is pre war figuring) to secure oil shipments from the middle east. It's very much like the cold war. Think how those untold trillions might have been better spend on anything other than a vast array of super toxic nuclear weapons. And yes, I understand deterrence and all that, but still.

Crap, I'm more off topic than... than... Cheney in Kyoto?

Ugh...

That joke signals the death knell of my typing for this post.

And as far as everything else goes, I was really only ever irritated about the gung-ho' "let's drill in Alaska!" tone of the conversation.

 

i did 29 bucks yesterday for ˟˟˟˟ gas, I was so happy my money is being burned at 12.5mpg

 

Don't knock wind energy. Denmark produces 16% of its energy from wind (2001 stats). If California could do that too maybe we would have less issues with blackouts.
However this will not work on my 4runner! I am gonna get of this dead horse.
C

 

Passed the Shell yesterday going to work - mid-grade(89) was $2.14. Went by at lunch and the price was $2.25 !