markjs

I know the basics of driving with a manual transmission, or at least I think I do (I am at least funtional because I drive all round town in one). My questions regard two things.

1. Is it correct procedure to gear down and let the clutch out and let the engine compression slow you when coming to a stop or slowing down? I have always done this but it seems to me that would wear on the clutch.

2. What is the exact specific definition of riding the clutch?

MTL_4runner

1) It is ok to let the engine slow you down.....it will only wear on the engine and has no effect on the clutch at all.

2) Riding the clutch is when you allow the clutch to engage just enuf to hold your position (like on a hill instead of using the brakes). This is not proper technique but many people do it anyway. Totally up to you.

markjs

Thanks.

Albuquerque Jim

I completely disagree with you. I used to think the same thing, because that is the way I was taught to drive.

However, when my clutch went out I did ALOT of research to find the best clutch for my application. I spoke to just about every major performance clutch company in the US about them. Every person who actually builds clutches told me that down shifting is just about the worst thing you can do to your clutch short of actually riding it.

You should come to a stop with your brakes while holding the clutch in.

Brakes are a lot cheaper and easier to replace!

Jonathan

Actually the best thing to do is when coming to a stop, push the clutch in take the truck out of gear and put in neutral as you come to a stop. That way you can leave the clutch alone completely as you coast to a stop.

Mystickal

#1 - It is OK to use engine compression to assist you in coming to a complete stop, however, it is correct that this will cause premature wear on the clutch. In addition, it will cause your gas mileage to be less than optimal, and will send more pollutants out of your exhaust (The amount of gas you burn will be increased by the higher RPMs of your engine. Even though you're not accelerating, the injectors are still pumping that gas into the cylinders). However, there are times, primarily when descending steep and/or lengthy hills, that you don't want to use the brakes to slow down as brake 'fade' can dramatically reduce your ability to stop (and sometimes completely take it away). These are the times when you would want to use engine compression to aid your vehicle in slowing down.

#2 - "Riding the clutch" is a term that means that you are applying slight pressure to the clutch during normal driving when the clutch should be fully engaged. There are some who ride the clutch really bad, having their foot rest on top of the clutch pedal nearly all the time; others are guilty of it for just a second or two as they are releasing the clutch (ie they keep their foot on the pedal just a little bit too long).

From a safety standpoint, you should not be stopped with the clutch pedal pressed to the floor and the shifter in a gear. The reason is that if someone rear-ends you, your foot will probably come off the clutch pedal placing the car in gear, and then you will probably rear-end the guy in front of you.

Personally, when approaching a stop light I shift into neutral, take my foot of the clutch pedal, and use the brake to slow down. Then if the light turns green before I get to it I am able to select instantly whichever gear I need to get into. Additionally, since I am coasting in neutral, engine RPMs go to idle, reducing the amount of gas I am burning.

The downside is that coasting in neutral like that is illegal in some places. I'm not sure why, but I would assume that it is because you are not able to take emergency evasive manuevers if something (or someone) is in your way.

~Bill

Leaf

I do something a little weird...

Stoplight: Clutch goes in, Brakes are hit and gear is moved 2 or 3 gears down....but never engaged.

I keep it like that (not in neutral!) in case I need to perform a quick escape/maneuver/etc.

I'd rather replace brake pads than my clutch. Downshifting *will* cause more wear and tear.

Braking but going through the motions of downshifting without engaging the clutch has saved my butt a few times.

-Leaf

amusement

I want my vehicle in gear just prior to a few feet of stopping. If your vehicle is in gear and you slow down and you need to speed up quickly then your response time will much better than somone who had to depress the clutch peddle and put in gear and rev up the engine. (Densive driving 101)

The same goes with down shifting to slow the vehicle down in traffic. It allows the option to speed quickly if the situation demands it.

I often down shift with heavy loads on a trailer to save the brakes when driving on the highway. Heck, I even double clutch.

Double clutching: To depress the clutch peddle to allow the gear shift to be moved to nuetral, release the clutch while the gear is in neutral, and ,again, depress the clutch peddle to allow the gear shift to go into the next gear.

Driving a manual transmission isn't easy or everyone would have one. I have driven semi's and trailers for over 5 years including 13 and 10 speed transmissions. Each vehicle, transmission and engine are different. Take the time to find what is best for your combo. Clutches and brakes are costly to replace but, major body work or a hospital stay could be more.

Food for thought.

Plays_with_Toys

I only downshift when coming to a stop at about 20-25mph, when engine RPMS are going to be low. My engine also sometimes stutters and that's when I know its time to down shift (if you've ever gone down to 15-20mph in 4th gear).

I keep the car in neutral, clutch out at lights, but I don't stick it in neutral until about 5mph, any evasive maneuver at this speed is going to just be braking.

markjs

The only time I ride the clutch is when I am in reverse and have very little room to move, but I bet everyone does that. Right?

Plays_with_Toys

I was thinking that earlier too, I almost always ride it in reverse, cuz I don't want to back up too quickly.

Also, in first gear, when I am going into my parking spot at home. Its this tiny wedge of rocks, and its up a slope, so I have to give it gas, but not enough to spin the tires, and not to the point I am crashing it into the corner of the garage.

toy283

You guys haven't driven in snow much, have you? I have much better control coming up to a stop by downshifting and not touching the brakes at all. No brakes = no skidding. Try it some time. FWIW, in Colorado, it is illegal to be moving and not in gear. Not something they can enforce, but soemthing to think about.

Plays_with_Toys

Yes it is illegal to not be in gear in colorado. I believe it is because of winter months, and the chance of hitting ice. If you have no power to the wheels to recover from a skid, its a bad thing. But, I never take it out of gear when I'm rolling around in the slick stuff anywho.

I actually prefer braking in the snow. Sometimes I will downshift, but I've started to fishtail from downshifting. Definately gotta know the speed (and resulting RPMs) when you downshift, I think thats why I fishtailed, went from 3rd to 2nd at 28mph, too high of RPMs, or maybe I let the clutch out too quick... Probably the latter

Toyminator

Automatic tranny.

flecker

I drive in snow here and toy283 is correct... come on people "the clutch is your friend". Use it whenever. I get about 150k on my clutches so far using it often to help slow my ride.

4runnerx4

Here is your answer. The major problem that most people do not know is that when you use your clutch to slow down your not hurting the clutch but your stretching your timeing chain, you are reversing the affect of accelleration on the chain and the force from bringing the vehicle to such a drop in rpm with the full force decelleration transfering from the wheels to the tranny through the clutch, you tend to forget that it dosn't stop there! The engine feels that pressure also and it ends up at the timing chain. Trust me brakes are alot cheaper, just go and ask any old timer thats worked for toyota and they'll tell you the same!

toy283

You're joking, right?

flecker

4RunnerX4... Iget about the same milage out of my timing chain

poomba

I've got a buddy that races a Subaru WRX in autocross and teaches a peformance driving school and they teach that the clutch style braking only yields approx. 10-15% better braking. So if it's not an emergency, save your clutch and use your brakes.

markjs

This thread has changed the whole way I drive.