grafix43

im in need of redoing the timing chain job that i just failed a few days ago.... its on a 94 pickup 22 re....the culprit seems to be a leak from the cover gasket or around that area... i just want someone who is experienced with the process to help me out so i know for sure i am doing everything correct this time.... i can provide u with some lunch or some beer or somethin.... if anyone at all in southern cali can help out please post or pm me or something. thanks - steve

ps. looking to get started probably this weekend

flecker

Got any pics of where it's leaking? Is it leaking oil or antifreeze?

EDIT... did you reuse the headgasket? Or use a new one? I sure hope you didn't re-use the old one.

tenfourtyeight

You don't change the headgasket when doing the timing chain.

What city, grafix?

flecker

Why wouldn't you? I realize it isn't totally mandatory.... just easier. Grafix, when you removed the timing cover did you loosen up the oil pan or the head?
Or neither? Did you just take all the bolts out and pry it out? And if so, how did you pry it back in without messing up the head gasket or oil pan seal?
Can you draw a circle around where it's leaking from in the picture?

grafix43

ok heres some answers. i live in chino hills by the 60/57 freeways.... the truck is leaking antifreeze. i used a new gasket for the timing chain cover, did not touch the head gasket, used the same valve cover gasket it looked fine.
when i took off the cover i loosened 2 oil pan bolts which allowed me to remove the timing chain cover, and took a tiny bit of prying but not much... and finally i cannot circle anything cause its not in the pic.... its basically leaking from the top right corner of the timing chain cover, near where a flange with a long pipe connects to the back of the timing chain cover.... it could be right above that where the cover connects to the block up next to the valve cover..... any thoughts or help? - steve

flecker

this look right? What did you torque the cover bolts to? I mean how many ft. lbs.. Did you use any silicone along w/ the gasket?

grafix43

yea thats exactly where it looks to be coming from, if not there then possibly a bit higher up near the valve cover..... i didnt tq the cover bolts i just tightened by hand....maybe thats another problem ... lol im dumb i know

grafix43

no silicone just some ˟˟˟˟ from autozone that said make a gasket of form a gasket somethin like that

flecker

The bolts should be tightend as follows. All 12mm bolts to 10-14 ft. lbs./ all 14mm bolts should be 14-18 ft. lbs. Just be careful not to strip any while your at it. When you say up higher, like by the valve cover... do you mean right below the head where the timing cover mates? When you took the timing cover off did you see any deep grooves where the old chain might have eaten through to the water jacket?

grafix43

yes it could quite possibly be where the head and timing cover mates..... yes there was grooves where the old chain ate through the water jacket, but i would say it was about 1/8th inch eaten through maybe 1/4th inch, and it did not appear to be eaten all the way through.... also i did not have any mix of coolant/oil before so i dont think that is the cause

flecker

Yeah sometimes the chain will eat all the way through... just curious. I wouldn't worry about any permanent damage from only running it for a couple of minutes (just read your other post). You do have a leak somewhere causing the mix... what did your water pump look like? Sounds to me as though you have a head gasket issue IMO. Have you tried a compression test yet?

grafix43

water pump looked pretty good in my opinion nothing unusual about it.... compression test no but i just got my valves adjusted about 3 weeks ago and brought up all cylinders to about 170 or so.... im not sure where the leak is but yea its around that corner like i said maybe the timing cover isnt sitting right or i didnt seal it properly

flecker

Hey.... you didn't forget to put the hidden bolt back in did you? The one that goes through the head into the top of the timing cover? Your simptoms sound like a blown head gasket by the #1 Cylinder.

grafix43

did not forget to put that bolt back in so its not that ..... and yes im with you i think that is the symptom as welll... seems to be it anyways once i get it apart again maybe i can telll. thanks for all your help man

flecker

No sweat man.... easiest way to tell is get yourself a comp. test gauge and see if #1 is lower. You had a recent test so you should be able to tell pretty quick. If it is the HG, then it's not to god awful a job to perform.... you will need a torque wrench for that one. Let us know how it works out.... wish I was closer to help you out, maybe Tenfortyeight can get by there and give you a hand?

ayoung101

i still don't know why people keep saying that you need to remove the head for this job. i did it without even TOUCHING the head. you DO have to remove the 2 oil pan bolts that bolt into the timing chain cover, but that's it. you were saying you didn't scrape your gaskets (in the other thread). i seriously think that is the problem. it's by far the worst and most boring part of the job, but it's the most necessary. you WON'T get a good seal without it. also, you said that there were grooves that cut into the water jacket? mine had grooves cut into the timing cover but didn't cut into any jacket. if you cut into a JACKET, then there's also a problem there. in which case you'll need a new chain cover. but it should've been doing the same thing BEFORE the chain switch. (the hold obviously didn't get bigger during the switch because it wasn't running). seriously, go back and scrape the crap out of the gaskets. make sure there is NOTHING left whatsoever. if you feel ANY bump on the chain cover, the head, or the oil pan, you're not done yet. lastly, and they may seem like a painfully stupid question, but you DID put a new gasket on, and not try to use the remains of the old one, correct?

flecker

I mentioned it isn't totally mandatory... just easier. I figure if your right there anyways, you may as well. IMO it's easy to remove the head and just do it, why take a chance?
EDIT: I just skimmed his other post... didn't realize Grafix that you didn't scrape the old gasket off, that could easily have something to do w/ it as well.

grafix43

ayoung sorry i said the water jacket, i meant that i saw grooves from the old chain cutting into the timing chain cover but it did not eat through all the way. yes oif course i used a new gasket , i just didnt scrape the crap outa the parts like you guys mentioned.

grafix43

looking at this picture now, my friend is saying he remembers seeing the leak exactly where that flange meets the back of the timing chain cover.... and now he also reminded me that when we tryed to remove the timing chain cover, there was one bolt in there and we didnt know about it, so we were trying to force off the cover when it still had one bolt holding it in place..... i remember trying to pry the cover off from that water inlet pipe sticking out.... is it possible that by trying to pry it off from there we could have possibly bent the cover and now its not sealing properly right there??? we did use some force but nohing too crazy, if its not that then im guessing its just the gasket lscraping like u guys said... thanks - steve

flecker

ALOT of people make the exact same mistake when removing the T Cover. It usually cracks it right where the bolt goes into the cover and leaks oil all over the place, not antifreeze. In any case your gonna have to tear it back down for a look see, you'll know it when you see it. The timing covers aren't easily warped or bent, but they are known to crack when bolts aren't removed.