DoubleZero4x4

I dont think anyone has tried it on anything except the 3rd Gen 4Runners.

ErikB

T100 calipers and rotors will bolt right onto an '86-95 truck/4runner.

T100 rotors aren't larger diameter though, just thicker (24mm vs. 18mm).

IIRC, the pistons are the same diameters as as the later "V6" style calipers (used on all after about '88, not just V6's), so all you gain on most vehicles is heat sink capacity but not brake force. That's good though if you have problems with warped rotors.

motoracer47

ive checked, and i dont believe this will work on 2nd gens, or t100s. the first biggest problem is the caliper mounting bolts are spaced differently(2nd gens and t100s are closer together) second, the stock rims would not work, but the bolt hole spacing is the main problem, and without an adapter plate(which would introduce its own problems on caliper to rotor spacing, it just wont work. so basically, this mod is for 3rd gen runners and tacomas only

FUZION

Has anyone figured out if the spare wheel from 16" wheel 4runners fits. I originally had 15 inch wheels so I need to know what size spare to get.

kevin444

199mm calipers for sale "s13we"" look in my classified thread thx!

Blue_Stone

Just an FYI...

I just took a look at my old 99 Taco calipers...

The 199mm/231mm measurements must be for the length of the caliper body...Thats the only measurement that even came close on my old calipers.

My calipers measured aboot 8 5/8" (219mm).

That means the Tundra calipers SHOULD be:

199mm = 7.83"
231mm = 9.09"

Also, my Taco calipers are stamped S12WN.

Anyway, this makes me wonder what the difference is between the 199mm Tundra calipers and the stock 219mm Tacoma calipers... Are the 199mm REALLY an upgrade over the stock Tacoma calipers?

AND if there isnt really an upgrade between the 199mm and 219mm's, its no wonder Toyota had to upgrade the brakes on the Tundras...

MTL_4runner

I see you posted the same comment in 2 threads but I'll respond here...

That sounds like alot of assumptions (where measurements are taken) for making a comparison.
You might want to measure them side by side to get a true comparison.
Weight of the caliper will also be a factor (if indeed they are different).

There's more than just the caliper involved in the upgrade, the ability to run much heavier rotors is a huge benefit to avoiding warping.

Blue_Stone

Yup...I posted in both threads because I actually found the threads from different links on other forums...

Yes, LOTS of assumptions....I dont have the Tundra calipers, and probably wont be doing the upgrade anytime soon...I have to stick with my 15" rims for now

Out of reading three different threads on this subject, I dont think ANYONE compared either of the Tundra calipers to the Tacoma calipers...

I just thought that was a little odd...

Yep, didnt connect that you'ld be using thicker rotors, even with the 199mm calipers...

Just thought I would post and try to get some answers to fill in, (what I thought), some blanks on this mod...

I'm also wondering if there would be even more benefit to upgrading the master cylinder...

Any one know what the bore size is on a stock Taco master? and the stock Tundra master?

I ask, because I am upgrading the brakes on my 80 Hilux with IFS calipers, FJ rotors, and an FJ80 master cylinder...

I realise this is my first post here on Yota, but I've been around awhile on MANY other forums...

MTL_4runner

No worries, wasn't trying to deride you for asking questions or stating observations.

I do agree there hasn't been alot of precise comparison (mostly pics of people holding the old and new side by side and about all you get is a visual comparison at best) and especially true on Tacomas. What caught me was that you said the Tacoma caliper was 219mm and I have seen comparison photos of the 4runner vs 199mm Tundra calipers and they looked to be very nearly the same size (except you can't run Tundra rotors with the 4runner calipers). To top it off the 231mm calipers weren't fitted to Tundras until 2003 so that would mean the Tacomas had the biggest calipers of any Toyota truck until 2003 (which I seriously doubt is true). It would be nice to know exactly how the calipers ar measured for true comparison.

bamachem

the 199mm and 213mm designations are the WIDTHS, not lengths of the calipers.

the tacoma is lighter than the 4runners. the tundras are heavier than the 4runners. there's no way that a tacoma with the same engine and towing capacity as a 4Runner has brakes comparable to a tundra - when the 4Runner didn't get the larger brakes.

it's definitely an upgrade for the 4Runner, and therefore should be even more of an upgrade for the lighter Tacoma.

kevin444

i second that.

MTL_4runner

Thanks for the clarification Andy, that makes alot more sense!

marko3xl3

Ok, so the 'mm' measurements on the calipers are the WIDTH. To recap:

No matter that the stock Tacoma caliper is wider than the stock 4Runner, it doesn't mean that it's better. The Tacoma caliper is probably lighter and smaller overall compared to the 4Runner one.

Next question...

How come the surface area of the TSB Tundra pad which goes on the 231mm Tundra caliper is smaller than the 199mm Tundra caliper used in stock 2000-early 2003 Tundra's? I am assuming the TSB involved beefier calipers, but the same rotors? Correct me here if I am wrong.

The only reason I am posting this because this mod has been dragged on for so long and there is still confusion. I am hoping with some teamwork, we'll be able to settle this once and for all .

MTL_4runner

Marko, a few people had noted the same thing over on www.TundraSolutions.com and I had replied:

"A few people had also commented on Yotatech on the fact that the newer D976 pads seemed to have a smaller contact surface area than the D812's, but it was mentioned that the original pads had more than enough material on them to create the friction necessary to stop, but the issue was that it was the backing plate that transferred the heat away from the rotor (there are huge temerature gradients created right at the pad/rotor junction) so the larger backing plate was part of the key not pad surface area. Then Toyota followed the rest of the design through making the calipers larger (more mass) on the 13WL's to act as a better heatsink/radiator for the braking system. Just a thought."

.....again it's only an educated guess at this point.

marko3xl3

Ok then, so if we assume that you are correct (not questioning you BTW) the question becomes how does a beefier caliper with a small(er) pad help braking on a 4Runner?

My thinking is that it might...because we have a problem with warped rotors, yet Toyota never issued a recall for it (which might've involved bigger rotors?)

But if it doesn't, then wouldn't upgrading to 199mm calipers do MOST of the upgrade and basically negate the extra gains going to 231mm's considering you have to grind so much.

Just thinking here, let me know what you think.

Blue_Stone

OK...Thanx....Now if someone had just said that somewhere in the thread...LOL

OK...I just measured the WIDTH of my Taco caliper, and its aboot 149mm...

SOOO...that makes the 199mm caliper aboout a third wider, and the 231mm almost half-again as wide!!...OK...That would explain some extra beef... Makes me wonder that the 231mm's would fit Tacos at all...Thats an extra 3" of caliper sticking out somewhere...

OK...Thats what I was wondering also...If the measurements were based on the lengths, why they would have much smaller calipers on a larger truck like the Tundra...Unless there was some other huge difference besides the length to make up for it?

You're statement above is logical, and thats what i would think too, but no one has given actual facts/data aboot the differences...Other than pad & rotor sizes/thickness...

OK...so thanx for clearing that up...

MTL_4runner

My thought was that there are a few things which are larger with respect to the 4runner setup. They are: beefier caliper (231mm anyway, the 199mm may be just slightly heavier than the 4runner's), thicker rotors and larger pad backing (even though the contact areas appear smaller). One other interesting thing to note was that they changed the brake pad slots from a 45 degree to a 90 degree design (not sure if that had any effect). So the assumption is that pad contact area is not the critical factor in creating better heat transfer in the braking system (which was what likely solved the warped rotor problem).

marko3xl3

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I know that the 199mm upgrade fixes the warped rotor problem by better heat transfer, but is the "231mm package" worth it over the 199mm for 4Runners?

My reasoning is that if the 199mm already fixes the warping problem, and the 231mm doesn't do much more to help, why get the 231mm if it has a smaller pad area?

I am assuming Toyota engineers know what they are doing, so the 231mm package is probably a 'lil better than the 199mm (more so for Tundras than 4Runners). I am just trying to find out if the extra grinding is worth the brake power, but as of now I think it's not because the 4Runner is so "light".

kevin444

if thats the case take a look at the stoptech big brake kits its like 330mm and its costs 2.5 grand, it just depends how much of a envy whore, thats why i decided to go 231mm because i have 17 tundra wheels in place.

its how perfect you want them to be soo its your own call

Chainlink

Sooooo where do we stand on Tacos being able to do this ....231's of course (envy w/e )....primarly a 98 v6 trd whos brakes suck %#$%#$%#$%.....

If I new it would work they would be on in less than 3 weeks....heck maybe 2 days if got the parts quick enough. Doh need the 16's or 17's first either way I would get it all for better braking