4:88's and 33's a good conbo?
Jun 15, 2010 | 07:04 AM
#82
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From: Jupiter, FL
My mind never seems to stop, I was considering after these tires where out ohhh in about 45K going back to 285's and wondered what that would be like with 4.88 that I have. I know there isn't much difference btwn 285 and 295 but there is a difference none the less.
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Jun 15, 2010 | 10:45 AM
#83
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From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
So here is another thread revival. I'm looking at getting an ARB locker and wondering about throwing in gears while the diff is opened up anyway. I have 4.10's and 285's right now, and do long highway drives quite often between Bozeman and Seattle quite often, and lots of snow driving. With lots of highway driving, is a lower gear ratio really worth it? Will it improve fuel economy for those trips? My mind still hasnt quite wrapped itself around gearing all too much. Higher RPM's in my mind mean more gas being consumed...
Jun 15, 2010 | 10:59 AM
#84
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From: Fort St. John
Another way to think about it is that if you are in a low gear using the engine to aid in braking down a steep grade your engine is at a very high RPM but there is no real load requiring the engine to use fuel. I know thinking about it this way helped me to "get it".
Jun 15, 2010 | 11:38 AM
#85
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now that we've read all this information for the 5vz... would I recieve this same result if i have a 3vz? i have 4.88 OEM thirds sitting in my garage that I plan to run 33x10.50s with. will I noticed a huge difference vs 31x10.50s and 4.10s?
Jun 15, 2010 | 01:14 PM
#86
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From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
33s and 4.88s will feel very similar to 4.10s and 31s power-wise. Your mpgs will still go down because your going to bigger tires, but regearing to 4.88s will split the difference and regain some of the mpgs back.
Jun 15, 2010 | 01:34 PM
#87
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From: TX
So now I'm confused, If the 5.29's are better (and I trust Scotty to be right) why would you go 4.88's? The gears cost the same so there's no financial reason to go 4.88's and the 5.29's work with 35's so when you get the itch to go bigger you can.... I feel like I'm missing something in the logic?
Jun 15, 2010 | 01:47 PM
#88
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I agree with Scotty that 5.29s would be better with 35s, no doubt. But if you run 33s with 5.29s, your rpms will be getting up there at freeway speeds and 4.88s would be better in that case. If it's a trail rig, then yeah get the 5.29s even if you only run 33s. You'll have more power and if you get 35s later down the road, you're already set. If it's not a trail rig, 4.88s will be better for the freeway.
Also, the lower the gear ratio (5.29s are lower than 4.88s), the weaker the actual ring and pinion are because the teeth's surface area is smaller. Not that 5.29s aren't still strong enough, they are, but 4.88s are even stronger.
Matrk92-4RnR,
If you're looking for more power than you have now but you're going to bigger tires, you'll need to overshoot your gear ratio to notice anything significant which means 5.29s. You might want to check an online rpm/gear ratio calculator though and make sure you're not going to be pulling like 3500 at 70 mph.
Also, the lower the gear ratio (5.29s are lower than 4.88s), the weaker the actual ring and pinion are because the teeth's surface area is smaller. Not that 5.29s aren't still strong enough, they are, but 4.88s are even stronger.
Matrk92-4RnR,
If you're looking for more power than you have now but you're going to bigger tires, you'll need to overshoot your gear ratio to notice anything significant which means 5.29s. You might want to check an online rpm/gear ratio calculator though and make sure you're not going to be pulling like 3500 at 70 mph.
Jun 15, 2010 | 01:52 PM
#89
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From: TX
I agree with Scotty that 5.29s would be better with 35s, no doubt. But if you run 33s with 5.29s, your rpms will be getting up there at freeway speeds and 4.88s would be better in that case. If it's a trail rig, then yeah get the 5.29s even if you only run 33s. You'll have more power and if you get 35s later down the road, you're already set. If it's not a trail rig, 4.88s will be better for the freeway.
Jun 15, 2010 | 02:05 PM
#92
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From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
I have 33s and 4.88s (auto) and I wouldn't want my RPMs any higher on the freeway. I still don't hit 3K until ~80 mph on my factory speedo, but that's high enough for me and my 200K mile engine. It's all about whether you're doing 90% highway and 10% off road, or the opposite.
It's funny though, now I wish I would have gone with 5.29s because I got myself a little Honda for a DD a month ago and the 4runner doesn't see the freeway anymore. It's like 90% off road now so 5.29s would have been the better choice for me, but at the time it was my DD. Oh well, there's really not that big of a difference between 4.88s and 5.29s. Scotty says it's only a 9% difference in rpms.
It's funny though, now I wish I would have gone with 5.29s because I got myself a little Honda for a DD a month ago and the 4runner doesn't see the freeway anymore. It's like 90% off road now so 5.29s would have been the better choice for me, but at the time it was my DD. Oh well, there's really not that big of a difference between 4.88s and 5.29s. Scotty says it's only a 9% difference in rpms.
Jun 16, 2010 | 08:42 AM
#93
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From: TX
I just wanted to re-post this info from Scotty since it pertains to the debate at hand:
Not saying that Scotty is the 4Runner god (we all know thats Steve Schaefer...lol) but its seems like he's done his research and knows wtf he's talkin about.
I think the reason you see guys going 4.88s with 35s is because they are misinformed about what to run in general. I couldn't even imagine running only 4.88s with 35s with the A/T. I can understand it with the manual tranny though.
5.29s would actually be perfect with 32s with the A/T. Even then, it still leaves you with lower than M/T rpms at cruising speeds. And remember, the M/T gets better mileage running at a higher RPM than the A/T does.
Every Toyota motor built from 1979-2004 is more efficient running at 3000+ rpms than it is at 2500 rpms. The 3.4L is no exception. They designed the power band and torque curve to work better and more efficiently at higher rpms.
I have no doubt that 5.29s are the way to go if you don't want your A/T to constantly hunt for 3rd gear.
5.29s would actually be perfect with 32s with the A/T. Even then, it still leaves you with lower than M/T rpms at cruising speeds. And remember, the M/T gets better mileage running at a higher RPM than the A/T does.
Every Toyota motor built from 1979-2004 is more efficient running at 3000+ rpms than it is at 2500 rpms. The 3.4L is no exception. They designed the power band and torque curve to work better and more efficiently at higher rpms.
I have no doubt that 5.29s are the way to go if you don't want your A/T to constantly hunt for 3rd gear.
Sure.
The A340 trannies have a 70% overdrive. Its one of the tallest overdrives of any A/T on the market. When you compare it to the 5spd available in the same models, they have a 85% overdrive.
I'll put it in terms of miles per hour vs rpms.
My new 4runner runs 265/75/16s right now. It has 4.30s from the factory in it. At 80mph I am running at 2600rpms in OD. However, the same 4runner with a 5spd with only 4.10s is running 3100 rpms.
Obviously, the holding power of the 5spd is MUCH better than that of the A/T. It won't require needing a lower gear nearly as much at hwy speeds.
So, in order for me to get the same kind of holding power at hwy speeds, I would need to install 5.29s to get a similar rpm as the 5spd has.
Plain and simple is that Toyota/Aisin never changed the gearing on the A340 from 1984-2004. It hunts for 3rd way too often on slight inclines which results in poorer fuel economy, less power, and a difference of 1100 rpms when it up shifts from OD to 3rd.
When you drive your A/T around on the freeway, how often do you notice the torque convertor lock and unlock? You will feel it when it unlocks and notice a 250rpm increase when it does it. Normally, after a few seconds of this the tranny will then shift into 3rd. That unlock and constant searching for a better gear creates heat in the tranny.
In my situation with this 4runner, I plan to tow my pop-up camper a lot with it. I am going to install 5.29s with the 33s to get similar power to what a 5spd has to offer. It will also allow me to run easier at hwy speeds while towing and even without towing.
5spds get better mileage running higher rpms than the auto do as well.
The A340 trannies have a 70% overdrive. Its one of the tallest overdrives of any A/T on the market. When you compare it to the 5spd available in the same models, they have a 85% overdrive.
I'll put it in terms of miles per hour vs rpms.
My new 4runner runs 265/75/16s right now. It has 4.30s from the factory in it. At 80mph I am running at 2600rpms in OD. However, the same 4runner with a 5spd with only 4.10s is running 3100 rpms.
Obviously, the holding power of the 5spd is MUCH better than that of the A/T. It won't require needing a lower gear nearly as much at hwy speeds.
So, in order for me to get the same kind of holding power at hwy speeds, I would need to install 5.29s to get a similar rpm as the 5spd has.
Plain and simple is that Toyota/Aisin never changed the gearing on the A340 from 1984-2004. It hunts for 3rd way too often on slight inclines which results in poorer fuel economy, less power, and a difference of 1100 rpms when it up shifts from OD to 3rd.
When you drive your A/T around on the freeway, how often do you notice the torque convertor lock and unlock? You will feel it when it unlocks and notice a 250rpm increase when it does it. Normally, after a few seconds of this the tranny will then shift into 3rd. That unlock and constant searching for a better gear creates heat in the tranny.
In my situation with this 4runner, I plan to tow my pop-up camper a lot with it. I am going to install 5.29s with the 33s to get similar power to what a 5spd has to offer. It will also allow me to run easier at hwy speeds while towing and even without towing.
5spds get better mileage running higher rpms than the auto do as well.
Jun 16, 2010 | 09:51 AM
#94
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From: Fort St. John
I agree with you. Scotty has done his homework. I have a 96 with the 5 speed and 285's and plan on going to 4.88 gears when I get some time and funds. I think it is also worth metioning that if you are generally running light (no weight in the back and only one or two people in the vehicle) then you could probably get away with the 4.88's better than if you carry weight and people all the time. For me I almost always have weight (family, and gear, heavy rear bumper) in the vehicle. Also, I tow occasionally so right now the runner is sucking wind a lot.
Jun 16, 2010 | 09:59 AM
#95
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From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
I actually didn't know that this was a debate, I'm just giving you my numbers and my experience. If you're trying to make yours act exactly like a 5 spd or trying to use gears to give you way more power than you had stock with small tires, then that's different than just wanting to restore the power you had before you went to bigger tires. 4.88s and 33s will put you back to about the same power as 4.10s and 31s (stock). I agree with Scotty's info so i'm not sure what you're asking anymore. Like I said my junk pulls 3K at 80 w/ 4.88s and 33s. If you like those #s then go with that. If you want to pull 3K at ~75, get 5.29s. If you want to pull 3K at ~70, get 5.71s. If you want 35s, then getting 5.29s will be very similar to my 4.88s and 33s. 5.71s and 35s will give you more power than stock.
It's your choice, there isn't a right or wrong, I'm just saying I personally don't like my rpms higher than 3K on the freeway.
It's your choice, there isn't a right or wrong, I'm just saying I personally don't like my rpms higher than 3K on the freeway.
Last edited by brian2sun; Jun 16, 2010 at 10:00 AM.
Jun 16, 2010 | 10:07 AM
#96
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From: TX
I'm not saying that you and I are debating, I was just posting for those debating 4.88 vs 5.29. I'm big into research and so I like when threads have as much info as possible so people don't have to keep searching and reading pointless banter. I already know what gears I'm going with, I just didn't know if I was missing something in MY thought process that would point me towards 4.88's over the 5.29's. To each his own, I'm not trying to prove anything, just trying to consolidate info brotha.
Jun 16, 2010 | 10:25 AM
#97
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From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
No problem. 5.29s and 33s will make yours feel more like a 5 spd and give you more power than stock. I'm still totally happy with my 4.88s and 33s, but my intentions were to only regain the power I had lost from the bigger tires - not to try to get more power than it ever had before.
I didn't want to be screaming down the highway at 3300-3500 rpms at 80 mph for 6 hours straight up to Mammoth where I camp a few times every year. Maybe that's what 5 spds do, but something about that just feels intrinsically wrong when I'm thinking in terms of my own 4runner. It isn't used to those kinds of #s and at 200K, I don't think it would be wise to force it to get used to it all of a sudden. Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
I didn't want to be screaming down the highway at 3300-3500 rpms at 80 mph for 6 hours straight up to Mammoth where I camp a few times every year. Maybe that's what 5 spds do, but something about that just feels intrinsically wrong when I'm thinking in terms of my own 4runner. It isn't used to those kinds of #s and at 200K, I don't think it would be wise to force it to get used to it all of a sudden. Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Last edited by brian2sun; Jun 16, 2010 at 10:30 AM.
Jun 16, 2010 | 10:53 AM
#98
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From: Sacramento, CA
anyway. lol after reading all of this. what would my RPMs be if i had 33s and 4.88s with a 3vz and a 5 speed? this is a daily driver so i kinda wanna keep it on the low end. Im at 3k with 4.10s with 31s at 65 mph in 5th gear right now. will the 4.88s and 33s be better in the long run?
Jun 16, 2010 | 04:40 PM
#99
hmmm... all this info is sounding like lots of $$$ to my plans...
I wanted to do just an ARB locker in the rear, now why not do gears while the rear diff is open? That means now that the front diff will be open, so why not do an ARB there too? Ugh...
I wanted to do just an ARB locker in the rear, now why not do gears while the rear diff is open? That means now that the front diff will be open, so why not do an ARB there too? Ugh...
Jun 17, 2010 | 02:44 AM
#100
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
I have a 2000 T4R 5VZ-FE 5spd with 33's uparmored and I plan on doing a SC down the road... It sounds like either 4.88's or 5.29s..... i'm still unsure, I'm guessing 5.29s souly because scotty said they're pretty legit, and Brian2sun said those 5.29s will make the truck seem more stock, which would be legit... any suggestions? oh and redelixxixi whatever yer name is, why don't you do electric lockers all around, no air lines n
Last edited by paynemw; Jun 17, 2010 at 02:49 AM.
