1996 4Runner 3.4 Clutch Help Needed
05-30-2018, 02:17 AM
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1996 4Runner 3.4 Clutch Help Needed
We have a 1996 4Runner 5 speed 4x4 3.4 with 375,000 miles. We bought it 2 yrs ago when clutch would not engage. I replaced master cylinder and slave cylinder with cheap aftermarket parts Clutch has always felt weak and disengaged at the floor. It began to have hard shifting into 1st and reverse in last several months. I replaced the clutch with a cheap aftermarket set from ebay 2 weeks ago. This was my first clutch job ever. Problem is, the new clutch changed nothing but it now has a much better pedal feel.. It still won't shift into 1st gear when running . We replaced the shifter seat on the gearshift with no improvement. The clutch bracket and the firewal(extra steel plate under master cylinder by PO) look good. I put a new pilot bearing and thrust bearing in with clutch. I can get in 2nd gear with an occasional grind which makes me think clutch is not disengaging completely. When truck was still on jack stands, i pulled shift fork back with ratchet strap to see if slave cylinder was not pushing far enough but no change. Tranny shifts through all gears fine when truck not running. We love the truck but i am at a loss now. What did i do wrong? By the way, just bought a 1996 T100 4x4 5 speed 3.4 Xcab and looking forward to using it as my DD after I fix some things ( clutch/ firewall cracks, rusty oil pan, clean/paint feame).
Any thoughts on the 4runner would be greatly appreciated!
Any thoughts on the 4runner would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by SnowChad; 05-30-2018 at 02:21 AM.
05-30-2018, 04:11 AM
#2
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Lower pedal engagement is a sign of air in the system. There’s a possibility it could be a bent clutch fork, or something wrong with the pivot, or where the clutch master bolts to the firewall (classic problem on gen 2s)
But my money is on air. When I use new master/slave I have better luck bench bleeding to get everything close.
But my money is on air. When I use new master/slave I have better luck bench bleeding to get everything close.
05-30-2018, 05:33 AM
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Lower pedal engagement is a sign of air in the system. There’s a possibility it could be a bent clutch fork, or something wrong with the pivot, or where the clutch master bolts to the firewall (classic problem on gen 2s)
But my money is on air. When I use new master/slave I have better luck bench bleeding to get everything close.
But my money is on air. When I use new master/slave I have better luck bench bleeding to get everything close.
Last edited by SnowChad; 05-30-2018 at 05:35 AM.
05-30-2018, 09:32 AM
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I amend my advice. After rereading your history it’s possible you bought a pig and a poke.
You said you bought the truck 2 years ago and it had a bad clutch system. Then you replaced the hydraulics and it got marginally better. Then you replaced the clutch kit and didn’t notice much improvement again. Ordinarily I would say you got some bad Chinese knock-off parts from eBay. But 2 different bad parts? Unlikely.
Long story short, I would check the clutch fork and pivot to make sure they aren’t bent defeating the fulcrum and mechanical advantage as well as the pedal mount on the firewall.
You said you bought the truck 2 years ago and it had a bad clutch system. Then you replaced the hydraulics and it got marginally better. Then you replaced the clutch kit and didn’t notice much improvement again. Ordinarily I would say you got some bad Chinese knock-off parts from eBay. But 2 different bad parts? Unlikely.
Long story short, I would check the clutch fork and pivot to make sure they aren’t bent defeating the fulcrum and mechanical advantage as well as the pedal mount on the firewall.
05-30-2018, 10:02 AM
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I amend my advice. After rereading your history it’s possible you bought a pig and a poke.
You said you bought the truck 2 years ago and it had a bad clutch system. Then you replaced the hydraulics and it got marginally better. Then you replaced the clutch kit and didn’t notice much improvement again. Ordinarily I would say you got some bad Chinese knock-off parts from eBay. But 2 different bad parts? Unlikely.
Long story short, I would check the clutch fork and pivot to make sure they aren’t bent defeating the fulcrum and mechanical advantage as well as the pedal mount on the firewall.
You said you bought the truck 2 years ago and it had a bad clutch system. Then you replaced the hydraulics and it got marginally better. Then you replaced the clutch kit and didn’t notice much improvement again. Ordinarily I would say you got some bad Chinese knock-off parts from eBay. But 2 different bad parts? Unlikely.
Long story short, I would check the clutch fork and pivot to make sure they aren’t bent defeating the fulcrum and mechanical advantage as well as the pedal mount on the firewall.
05-30-2018, 10:34 AM
#6
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Unless there is some bizarre shenanigans going on like a mismatched year of trans or wrong flywheel or something. Basically when you push on the clutch the throw-out bearing isn't pressing far enough into the pressure plate. Now that can be a result of incorrect parts i.e. the wrong slave not having enough throw or the wrong pressure plate that is too short. It can also be that the hydraulic system has air in it that is compressing instead of transferring the force from the pedal to the rod of the slave. Or a damaged part, like a bent or cracked clutch fork that is loosing the motion or cracked firewall (which you say isn't flexing).
05-30-2018, 05:45 PM
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If you are pulling it again make sure the flywheel is smooth and flat, even if you have to take it to a machine shop to reface it. Also make sure the throwout bearing and the clips that hold it on the fork are on properly, find some pictures to go by. it has been so long I can't remember enough to talk you through how they clip on, but I saw this exact problem once on a different brand.
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05-31-2018, 06:38 AM
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If you are pulling it again make sure the flywheel is smooth and flat, even if you have to take it to a machine shop to reface it. Also make sure the throwout bearing and the clips that hold it on the fork are on properly, find some pictures to go by. it has been so long I can't remember enough to talk you through how they clip on, but I saw this exact problem once on a different brand.
05-31-2018, 10:00 AM
#9
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Rereading your original info, you said the PO added steel to the firewall under the clutch pedal already to repair flex I’m assuming.
If they didn’t account for the distance the bracket relocates that point you are going to be way off on your travel.
Lets ts say they added 1/4” of plate. The pedal pivot is like 10:1. That would throw your engagement off by 2.5”. That’s a significant amount of your pedal travel.
If they didn’t account for the distance the bracket relocates that point you are going to be way off on your travel.
Lets ts say they added 1/4” of plate. The pedal pivot is like 10:1. That would throw your engagement off by 2.5”. That’s a significant amount of your pedal travel.
06-07-2018, 04:12 PM
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UPDATE
On Tuesday we bled the master cylinder and slave cylinder without any change in the clutch pedal or shifting in the transmission. On Wednesday we received and installed new Aisin Master cylinder and slave cylinder after bleeding them on the bench. Clutch pedal was the best it has ever been! No change in shifting when test driving the 4Runner. Transmission still does not want to shift into 1st gear and difficult to shift into 2nd. When driving, I can feel clutch begin to engage approx 1.5" off the floor. I believe my next step is to rebuild or have transmission rebuilt. There was a small amount of play in input shaft when I replaced the clutch. My question is, am I able to rebuild this transmission myself?
On Tuesday we bled the master cylinder and slave cylinder without any change in the clutch pedal or shifting in the transmission. On Wednesday we received and installed new Aisin Master cylinder and slave cylinder after bleeding them on the bench. Clutch pedal was the best it has ever been! No change in shifting when test driving the 4Runner. Transmission still does not want to shift into 1st gear and difficult to shift into 2nd. When driving, I can feel clutch begin to engage approx 1.5" off the floor. I believe my next step is to rebuild or have transmission rebuilt. There was a small amount of play in input shaft when I replaced the clutch. My question is, am I able to rebuild this transmission myself?
Last edited by SnowChad; 06-07-2018 at 04:24 PM.
06-07-2018, 04:40 PM
#11
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Poor clutch engagement is usually an issue with the fork, throw out bearing, or hydraulics. The fact that you have trouble shifting is almost entirely a result of a clutch that isn’t fully disengaging.
I would suggest a trans issue if it felt crunchy going thru the gears while the truck is off. And yes, you can completely rebuild a manual transmission with basic tools.
I would suggest a trans issue if it felt crunchy going thru the gears while the truck is off. And yes, you can completely rebuild a manual transmission with basic tools.
06-07-2018, 05:41 PM
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The transmission feels fine when the truck is off. There is no crunching when the truck is not running or running. I am planning on removing the tranny again and will recheck the shift fork and throwout bearing. I have the tranny out of the T100, so I can compare the forks and things. If the input shaft has play, does that not effect shifting? I have not changed the tranny oil in the 2 years we have had it. Any chance that could effect it like this? I appreciate all the advice you have shared!
06-07-2018, 06:11 PM
#13
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A little play is normal. Maybe 1/16” or so. Some pictures would be great when you pull the trans, or videos even, YouTube would be our friends in helping to diagnose. I still think it’s theclutch fork, pivot, or linkage at the pedal. You said with quality parts you got the best pedal feel yet.
06-07-2018, 06:41 PM
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What I saw behind the master cylinder against the firewall was paper gasket material, not metal like I initially thought. I saw no flex in the firewall and the pedal bracket is still intact. The cheaper master cylinder pin bracket that attaches to pedal had some wear in it but the new one was tighter at the pin and has less play. I did not see any cracks in the pedal bracket. Would I still feel a positive clutch grab 1.5" off the floor if the clutch was not releasing completely?
06-07-2018, 07:38 PM
#15
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A quick overview of how the clutch system works:
the pedal has a fulcrum that provides mechanical advantage pushing the rod in the master cylinder.
This pushes fluid to the slave cylinder, which pushes a rod into the clutch fork.
This pivots adding mechanical advantage, the fork slides the throw out bearing which pushes the fingers of the pressure plate, which pivot and lift the clamping pressure allowing the friction disc to spin freely.
What I believe is happening is you aren’t getting enough pressure on the fingers of the pressure and fully releasing the friction disc. Essentially when you push the pedal to the floor, the best you’re getting is half release or riding the clutch. You said you are at full engagement 1.5” off the floor. This is why you can’t get into 1st at a stop or shift gears.
Now we have to figure out why. Personally I think it’s in the clutch fork. But it could be the wrong clutch, or a poorly adjusted pedal assembly, or a busted pivot. Again, pictures will help a lot.
the pedal has a fulcrum that provides mechanical advantage pushing the rod in the master cylinder.
This pushes fluid to the slave cylinder, which pushes a rod into the clutch fork.
This pivots adding mechanical advantage, the fork slides the throw out bearing which pushes the fingers of the pressure plate, which pivot and lift the clamping pressure allowing the friction disc to spin freely.
What I believe is happening is you aren’t getting enough pressure on the fingers of the pressure and fully releasing the friction disc. Essentially when you push the pedal to the floor, the best you’re getting is half release or riding the clutch. You said you are at full engagement 1.5” off the floor. This is why you can’t get into 1st at a stop or shift gears.
Now we have to figure out why. Personally I think it’s in the clutch fork. But it could be the wrong clutch, or a poorly adjusted pedal assembly, or a busted pivot. Again, pictures will help a lot.
06-08-2018, 01:03 PM
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What I am feeling at 1.5" off of the foor is where i feel the clutch begin to grab as the pedal is being let up. We did not have that kind of clutch feel until i replaced the Master Cylinder and slave cylinder 2 days ago. Prior to that, the clutch only seemed to take affect within 2-3" of the floor. All the things i have done so far have not changed the difficult shifting. I may be wrong, but i would think if the problem was the clutch pedal or hydraulics, the shifting would have at least changed a little with the things i have done. When it quits raining, i am planning on pulling the transmission to check the clutch fork and pivot.
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