Swimmerboy2112's 1991 Pickup Build Thread
Sep 19, 2011 | 12:57 PM
#141
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From: Walnutport, PA
"Header Click" is when, in a 4 into 1 header and even some times in the Tri-Y, the exhaust gas get's caught by build up of the other 3 and backs up to the head and ''CLAPS'' against the exiting exhaust, making a "CLICK" sound, like a valve tick or something. Ted tried to help me diagnose this, ...and as a matter of fact, my sig quote was his final comment on the matter! hahaha. (HE DID go over it with me, extensively, cuz Tod listened to the video and told his dad, "WOW, it's pretty unique and ominous", then explained it to him...{only dial up on Ted-Island! lol}...
There is another cause, apparently, for some NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to find ticking regarding "headers on 22re's". It seems that MANY header designs, while they completely cover the exhaust ports, very well, .... leave out the extra flange(?) that the Stock Manifold has around the "EGR PASSAGE" that actually wraps around the back of the head to the driver side, PASSING THROUGH the rear upper/or/lower(can't recall) exhaust stud channel.(Basically, imagine the bottom right stud hole for the exhaust as having a T at the end of it which actually is an EGR passage) This can have one chasing his/her tail for DAYSSSSSSS! lol. Tod and Ted both have run into this more than once.
Again, not much to do about the latter, either! lol. So, like Ted said, ..."Turn up the Bob Segar and just DRIVE .... then when something breaks, I fix it", lol.
The reason I went with LCE is because, well, SO FREAKIN MANY people have used/been using them forEVERRRRRR, without any issues, warping(within reason) and because the results they get are great. I can vouch for DT's on a 351 Cleveland Motor..... And I've had Downey Headers on 2 Toyota's(both were great!)
You could also call 22reperformance.com and ask him, "This is my set up, ....what header should I run?" See what he says. HE MIGHT say you'd be just as well with a DT, even though I know he loves the LCE. Not saying Tod and Ted aren't enough of a call on many things... But can't hurt to have MORE, rather than LESS... 'SERIOUSLY PROFESSIONAL' input, right? lol
PS> I don't wanna speak for Ted, ... and I KNOW he doesn't mind some headers... But far as I know, he is TOTALLY SOLD, #1, on the Toyota Stock Exhaust Manifold! He built MANY race engines... and I think he found some of his best results out of the stock exhaust manifold with a 2" pipe to the CAT, 2" to the Muffler and then 2.25" out the back. (ask him, see if that's what he feels. I don't want to misquote him, ya know? lol)
There is another cause, apparently, for some NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to find ticking regarding "headers on 22re's". It seems that MANY header designs, while they completely cover the exhaust ports, very well, .... leave out the extra flange(?) that the Stock Manifold has around the "EGR PASSAGE" that actually wraps around the back of the head to the driver side, PASSING THROUGH the rear upper/or/lower(can't recall) exhaust stud channel.(Basically, imagine the bottom right stud hole for the exhaust as having a T at the end of it which actually is an EGR passage) This can have one chasing his/her tail for DAYSSSSSSS! lol. Tod and Ted both have run into this more than once.
Again, not much to do about the latter, either! lol. So, like Ted said, ..."Turn up the Bob Segar and just DRIVE .... then when something breaks, I fix it", lol.
The reason I went with LCE is because, well, SO FREAKIN MANY people have used/been using them forEVERRRRRR, without any issues, warping(within reason) and because the results they get are great. I can vouch for DT's on a 351 Cleveland Motor..... And I've had Downey Headers on 2 Toyota's(both were great!)
You could also call 22reperformance.com and ask him, "This is my set up, ....what header should I run?" See what he says. HE MIGHT say you'd be just as well with a DT, even though I know he loves the LCE. Not saying Tod and Ted aren't enough of a call on many things... But can't hurt to have MORE, rather than LESS... 'SERIOUSLY PROFESSIONAL' input, right? lol
PS> I don't wanna speak for Ted, ... and I KNOW he doesn't mind some headers... But far as I know, he is TOTALLY SOLD, #1, on the Toyota Stock Exhaust Manifold! He built MANY race engines... and I think he found some of his best results out of the stock exhaust manifold with a 2" pipe to the CAT, 2" to the Muffler and then 2.25" out the back. (ask him, see if that's what he feels. I don't want to misquote him, ya know? lol)
Anyway, i'm going to give the guys at 22reperformance a call and see what they have to say. I'll update this once I call them.
Thanks!
Sep 19, 2011 | 02:18 PM
#144
In time, IF indeed ''FOUND'' as you put it. hahaha. Remember all the times you've TEASED? lol... JK, in this case I have a 50-50 chance of getting it before another guy... so I'll hold off on the "I GOT SOMETHING ON CL" until I ''GET SAID SOMETHING FROM SELLER!" lol.
Sep 19, 2011 | 05:07 PM
#145
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From: Walnutport, PA
In time, IF indeed ''FOUND'' as you put it. hahaha. Remember all the times you've TEASED? lol... JK, in this case I have a 50-50 chance of getting it before another guy... so I'll hold off on the "I GOT SOMETHING ON CL" until I ''GET SAID SOMETHING FROM SELLER!" lol.
Sep 19, 2011 | 06:27 PM
#148
Sep 19, 2011 | 08:52 PM
#149
OF COURSE you do! 
hahahaha, jk... CONGRATZ.....maybe, KWIM? lol
I agree with Ian, as USUALLY when I have a code flicker on and off, it's been the 02. You messed with the control arm... is it possible, seeing that your 02 is right there on the driver side Plus 6" or so, .... maybe you yoinked on it on accident?
Nice work.... Night and day with the ride? Didya swap in new CA bushings while at it?
PS> Shhhhhhhh, .... me haz update on CL find..... IT'S FOUND! lol. I'll update my build with it, shortly.
hahahaha, jk... CONGRATZ.....maybe, KWIM? lolPS> Shhhhhhhh, .... me haz update on CL find..... IT'S FOUND! lol. I'll update my build with it, shortly.
Sep 20, 2011 | 02:18 AM
#150
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From: Walnutport, PA
OF COURSE you do! hahahaha, jk... CONGRATZ.....maybe, KWIM? lol
I agree with Ian, as USUALLY when I have a code flicker on and off, it's been the 02. You messed with the control arm... is it possible, seeing that your 02 is right there on the driver side Plus 6" or so, .... maybe you yoinked on it on accident?
Nice work.... Night and day with the ride? Didya swap in new CA bushings while at it?
PS> Shhhhhhhh, .... me haz update on CL find..... IT'S FOUND! lol. I'll update my build with it, shortly.
hahahaha, jk... CONGRATZ.....maybe, KWIM? lolI agree with Ian, as USUALLY when I have a code flicker on and off, it's been the 02. You messed with the control arm... is it possible, seeing that your 02 is right there on the driver side Plus 6" or so, .... maybe you yoinked on it on accident?
Nice work.... Night and day with the ride? Didya swap in new CA bushings while at it?
PS> Shhhhhhhh, .... me haz update on CL find..... IT'S FOUND! lol. I'll update my build with it, shortly.
As far as the control arm, new bushings all around. She rides much smoother (and straighter) now. Still need to put in a new upper ball joint so I can get it aligned. I'll be doing that on Monday.
Gonna check your build thread NOW!
Sep 20, 2011 | 03:07 AM
#151
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From: Northeast Pennsylvania
my opinion on Doug Thorleys, based upon using them on Joe's 4runner.
thought they would get discolored or worse after we 1st started the motor up.....they did not. after 1000 miles, still look like the day we pulled them out of the box. fitting them to the head made me nervous because they are not flat, but rather each port is flat....so each port fits perfectly flush rather than the whole thing sitting flush against the head (understand?)....the key there is the proper gasket....which they include.
as far as fitting the pipes together......meh. they are slip-joints held with clamps. not necessarily impressed with this. of 7 connections, I have 2 that continue to leak despite tightening the hell outta them. in fact, I have distorted a clamp to the point where I will need to replace one....and it still does not hold. the O2 sensor connection was not proper, had to grind a nut down to fit in place...poor design of that part...that's a fact.
as far as any HP gains.....don't know...did not and could not exactly drive his 4runner before we rebuilt it, so I have nothing to compare against.
does have a bit of a "rumble" from the tailpipe at idle, but honestly, that is the only sound difference. if there was not an almost brand-new cat-back exhaust on there when we got it, I would have put a different muffler on like a 40 or something. but we just hooked on to the existing one.
the piping is soooooooooo thick, it took FOREVER to cut it to size, even with an exhaust cutter. in fact, since catalytic converter theft is always a possibility, I've said that if you can cut that off, you earned it....have it. sawzall with 2 different kinds of blades barely scratched it.
after all those words.......YES....I recommend the Doug Thorleys.
thought they would get discolored or worse after we 1st started the motor up.....they did not. after 1000 miles, still look like the day we pulled them out of the box. fitting them to the head made me nervous because they are not flat, but rather each port is flat....so each port fits perfectly flush rather than the whole thing sitting flush against the head (understand?)....the key there is the proper gasket....which they include.
as far as fitting the pipes together......meh. they are slip-joints held with clamps. not necessarily impressed with this. of 7 connections, I have 2 that continue to leak despite tightening the hell outta them. in fact, I have distorted a clamp to the point where I will need to replace one....and it still does not hold. the O2 sensor connection was not proper, had to grind a nut down to fit in place...poor design of that part...that's a fact.
as far as any HP gains.....don't know...did not and could not exactly drive his 4runner before we rebuilt it, so I have nothing to compare against.
does have a bit of a "rumble" from the tailpipe at idle, but honestly, that is the only sound difference. if there was not an almost brand-new cat-back exhaust on there when we got it, I would have put a different muffler on like a 40 or something. but we just hooked on to the existing one.
the piping is soooooooooo thick, it took FOREVER to cut it to size, even with an exhaust cutter. in fact, since catalytic converter theft is always a possibility, I've said that if you can cut that off, you earned it....have it. sawzall with 2 different kinds of blades barely scratched it.
after all those words.......YES....I recommend the Doug Thorleys.
Sep 20, 2011 | 01:34 PM
#152
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From: Walnutport, PA
my opinion on Doug Thorleys, based upon using them on Joe's 4runner.
thought they would get discolored or worse after we 1st started the motor up.....they did not. after 1000 miles, still look like the day we pulled them out of the box. fitting them to the head made me nervous because they are not flat, but rather each port is flat....so each port fits perfectly flush rather than the whole thing sitting flush against the head (understand?)....the key there is the proper gasket....which they include.
as far as fitting the pipes together......meh. they are slip-joints held with clamps. not necessarily impressed with this. of 7 connections, I have 2 that continue to leak despite tightening the hell outta them. in fact, I have distorted a clamp to the point where I will need to replace one....and it still does not hold. the O2 sensor connection was not proper, had to grind a nut down to fit in place...poor design of that part...that's a fact.
as far as any HP gains.....don't know...did not and could not exactly drive his 4runner before we rebuilt it, so I have nothing to compare against.
does have a bit of a "rumble" from the tailpipe at idle, but honestly, that is the only sound difference. if there was not an almost brand-new cat-back exhaust on there when we got it, I would have put a different muffler on like a 40 or something. but we just hooked on to the existing one.
the piping is soooooooooo thick, it took FOREVER to cut it to size, even with an exhaust cutter. in fact, since catalytic converter theft is always a possibility, I've said that if you can cut that off, you earned it....have it. sawzall with 2 different kinds of blades barely scratched it.
after all those words.......YES....I recommend the Doug Thorleys.
thought they would get discolored or worse after we 1st started the motor up.....they did not. after 1000 miles, still look like the day we pulled them out of the box. fitting them to the head made me nervous because they are not flat, but rather each port is flat....so each port fits perfectly flush rather than the whole thing sitting flush against the head (understand?)....the key there is the proper gasket....which they include.
as far as fitting the pipes together......meh. they are slip-joints held with clamps. not necessarily impressed with this. of 7 connections, I have 2 that continue to leak despite tightening the hell outta them. in fact, I have distorted a clamp to the point where I will need to replace one....and it still does not hold. the O2 sensor connection was not proper, had to grind a nut down to fit in place...poor design of that part...that's a fact.
as far as any HP gains.....don't know...did not and could not exactly drive his 4runner before we rebuilt it, so I have nothing to compare against.
does have a bit of a "rumble" from the tailpipe at idle, but honestly, that is the only sound difference. if there was not an almost brand-new cat-back exhaust on there when we got it, I would have put a different muffler on like a 40 or something. but we just hooked on to the existing one.
the piping is soooooooooo thick, it took FOREVER to cut it to size, even with an exhaust cutter. in fact, since catalytic converter theft is always a possibility, I've said that if you can cut that off, you earned it....have it. sawzall with 2 different kinds of blades barely scratched it.
after all those words.......YES....I recommend the Doug Thorleys.
Hmm yeah i put a set of DT's on a friends 2001 Nissan Frontier and noticed much of the same things you did.
I appreciate the opinion.
Hmm things to consider...
Sep 20, 2011 | 03:39 PM
#153
Just a lil in regards to the seal-up on my LCE.... NOT A TICK! 8K miles in, between two motors(I'm glad it didn't get confused! lol).... and it has solid flange seal all across without a single exhaust leak since/yet. I'm using the OEM Gasket they gave me with the lil heat shield on it. Also, the kit they gave me to CAT was direct fit/angled properly, not a single issue. 02 fitment was perfect as well(However, I'm still trying to figure a way to take the 02 flange portion out and place it, somehow, in the upper pipes... just think it would read better than right off the CAT.... BUT I'M NOT SURE it would make any difference at all. Still searching on that). Most of these headers have the 02 location down pipe a bit, like mine... It hasn't thrown an 02 Code since I've had it hooked up, so not sure why it bothers me, lol. Maybe I could get a lil better mileage? Who knows, ....NOT ME! lol.
Sep 20, 2011 | 04:53 PM
#154
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Just a lil in regards to the seal-up on my LCE.... NOT A TICK! 8K miles in, between two motors(I'm glad it didn't get confused! lol).... and it has solid flange seal all across without a single exhaust leak since/yet. I'm using the OEM Gasket they gave me with the lil heat shield on it. Also, the kit they gave me to CAT was direct fit/angled properly, not a single issue. 02 fitment was perfect as well(However, I'm still trying to figure a way to take the 02 flange portion out and place it, somehow, in the upper pipes... just think it would read better than right off the CAT.... BUT I'M NOT SURE it would make any difference at all. Still searching on that). Most of these headers have the 02 location down pipe a bit, like mine... It hasn't thrown an 02 Code since I've had it hooked up, so not sure why it bothers me, lol. Maybe I could get a lil better mileage? Who knows, ....NOT ME! lol.
Glad to hear that the 02 positions are good though.
Sep 20, 2011 | 07:05 PM
#160
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From: Walnutport, PA
Come on now guys, he's new, cut him some slack.
