Swimmerboy2112's 1986 4Runner Build-Up Thread
Jun 29, 2010 | 02:00 AM
#301
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From: Walnutport, PA
lockers are going to make the single biggest improvement in off road performance period, more so than a lift or tires, or gears. All of the "lunch box" lockers are pretty much the same, save for minor differences. I am considering one for mt front diff now, still not sure I am ready to make that leap though. Swimmerboy, start out with a rear locker & then decide if you want one in the front. I think that you would be surprised at what you can do with a rear locker & some decent tires.
Jun 29, 2010 | 06:58 AM
#302
hey swimmerboy, been watching your build for some time now and feel as though i could offer some advice. Obviously do what you want and take it with a grain of salt. All of us would love to have started out with a locked lifted armored and just plain sick rig but most of us didn't. This could be a good thing as it taught us to pick the right line and go a little slower when encountering harsh situations. Maybe take that into consideration before you dump a but ton of money into your rig and find it's more capable than you. Lockers yes they will get you further than any thing else so they're a great idea. armor is great as well. Not calling you a novice by any means but before you go all sas and 35's might want to get comfortable with some smaller mods. Kinda the you gotta crawl before you walk thing. A built rig is only as good as the driver right. Do a mild cheap lift like the coils and bj spacers with some lockers and armor you'd be very suprised what you can get yourself into. New bumpers and a winch could help as well. So if you do the cheap lift like bj spacers and coils you're not too much in the hole when it comes time to hack off the ifs stuff and get a sfa.
take into consideration the shape of your drive train as well. How's the motor and tranny? Could some of this money be dedicated to upgrading it? and possibly making it more reliable as you stated before it's the Daily driver for now right. To site an example from my rig i first built the motor and tranny before i even thought about the suspension. I figured no matter how sick my rig was with armor and lockers without a stable drive train i'm going to be stuck sooner than i'd like to admit. So i went ahead and built the motor and threw in a new trans. Just some thoughts for ya man wouldn't want you to build a sick runner and go out to flop the darn thing due to lack of experience but then again i could be wrong you might have a load of experience that i didn't take into consideration. Either way start slow and work you way to the goal you want to achieve.
take into consideration the shape of your drive train as well. How's the motor and tranny? Could some of this money be dedicated to upgrading it? and possibly making it more reliable as you stated before it's the Daily driver for now right. To site an example from my rig i first built the motor and tranny before i even thought about the suspension. I figured no matter how sick my rig was with armor and lockers without a stable drive train i'm going to be stuck sooner than i'd like to admit. So i went ahead and built the motor and threw in a new trans. Just some thoughts for ya man wouldn't want you to build a sick runner and go out to flop the darn thing due to lack of experience but then again i could be wrong you might have a load of experience that i didn't take into consideration. Either way start slow and work you way to the goal you want to achieve.
Jun 29, 2010 | 11:38 AM
#303
Great input, Mightmouse!
I am, in NO WAY, trying to tell you what to do, Brian...Nor would I presume that what "I'm doing or thinking" is more practical for you. I just have to agree with Mouse on this one..."Just REALLY think about it, that's all". Especially regarding the Motor and Trans, if this, as you said, is going to be your primary vehicle. The main reason I say that is, well, you're selling your primary vehicle.....so while you might not be in 'strapped' situations very often(I would have no idea, lol), ....you WILL be depending on this truck every day, right?
You know I was going for the OME, initially(900$ minimum, plus tax).... I've decided, for now, to stick with the Zuk's, front shocks(possibly a Steering Stablizer) and Bj's, because I've really thought about it and, ....2 things.... (1.) While I have a new motor, my trans is pretty strong, but I can NOT be sure how strong, lol. That's a good chunk of cash to do it right. 1200 for a fully rebuilt one....Plus, whatever else might go out....'Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases?' (2.) I've had the 31's for 8 years, SAME TIRES-80k miles!(10.50x15's BFG's...still have 30% meat on them!), stock height, and I've gone though MUCH of what was at Rausch and all through some WAY back woods stuff in the Sierras and Sequoias for all those years without ever busting anything but an idler arm. NO, I've not crawled crazy rocks or flew through 2' mud pits, lol....but it's brought me LOTS of fun and got me out of MANY situations. I WILL need tires, within the next 20,000 miles, MAX, ...so there's another 800$ installed!
What's changed for me? hehehe. Well, NOW; I have the SAG, and it's riding on the bumpstops nearly.... Plus, it's got ORIGINAL shocks on the front! lol
So, for me, YES ME, NOT YOU, hahhahaa, it's way more practical on the wallet, gas mileage, longevity of motor and planning ahead for maybe a tranny, etc., ...to go with....
70$ for 12"x125# Zuks(should bring me up 2.5-3" in the rear)..including shipping
100$ for Bilstein Front shocks
? $ for BJ's(75-100$?)
100$(?) for good Steering Stablizer(IF NEEDED)
The Idler arm was kinda a PITA but I managed(my first suspension fix, hehehe) and was OEM for 20$-brand new- off EBAY motors. I already have Rancho 9000's in the rear, and if they're not ruined from being bottomed out, I'll stick with those and save another 100$ Not to mention, I can do all of this myself and save about 400$ labor.
Just so you know, the SAS is NOT CHEAP..... Some Guru's have told me about 4,000$ to do it REALLY well.(If you go that way, ask around, you may find a cheaper way to go).
Good idea on the Hubs, ...I HATED the auto-locking hubs, and they did get me stuck a couple times!grrr, lol( They unlock when in reverse under some conditions---can't remember, it's been a while since I changed them out). However, it was nice a couple of times(5 degrees below zero and ice/mud outside my door) to not have to get out, hehehe. But yes, the Manual Hubs ARE DEFINITELY better!
Just throwing in some experience and years, ....not trying to be a downer in your Yota'adventure! lol. I admire your ambition and love of your rig, Brian! Can't WAIT to see the "Yellow", btw!
I am, in NO WAY, trying to tell you what to do, Brian...Nor would I presume that what "I'm doing or thinking" is more practical for you. I just have to agree with Mouse on this one..."Just REALLY think about it, that's all". Especially regarding the Motor and Trans, if this, as you said, is going to be your primary vehicle. The main reason I say that is, well, you're selling your primary vehicle.....so while you might not be in 'strapped' situations very often(I would have no idea, lol), ....you WILL be depending on this truck every day, right?
You know I was going for the OME, initially(900$ minimum, plus tax).... I've decided, for now, to stick with the Zuk's, front shocks(possibly a Steering Stablizer) and Bj's, because I've really thought about it and, ....2 things.... (1.) While I have a new motor, my trans is pretty strong, but I can NOT be sure how strong, lol. That's a good chunk of cash to do it right. 1200 for a fully rebuilt one....Plus, whatever else might go out....'Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases?' (2.) I've had the 31's for 8 years, SAME TIRES-80k miles!(10.50x15's BFG's...still have 30% meat on them!), stock height, and I've gone though MUCH of what was at Rausch and all through some WAY back woods stuff in the Sierras and Sequoias for all those years without ever busting anything but an idler arm. NO, I've not crawled crazy rocks or flew through 2' mud pits, lol....but it's brought me LOTS of fun and got me out of MANY situations. I WILL need tires, within the next 20,000 miles, MAX, ...so there's another 800$ installed!
What's changed for me? hehehe. Well, NOW; I have the SAG, and it's riding on the bumpstops nearly.... Plus, it's got ORIGINAL shocks on the front! lol
So, for me, YES ME, NOT YOU, hahhahaa, it's way more practical on the wallet, gas mileage, longevity of motor and planning ahead for maybe a tranny, etc., ...to go with....
70$ for 12"x125# Zuks(should bring me up 2.5-3" in the rear)..including shipping
100$ for Bilstein Front shocks
? $ for BJ's(75-100$?)
100$(?) for good Steering Stablizer(IF NEEDED)
The Idler arm was kinda a PITA but I managed(my first suspension fix, hehehe) and was OEM for 20$-brand new- off EBAY motors. I already have Rancho 9000's in the rear, and if they're not ruined from being bottomed out, I'll stick with those and save another 100$ Not to mention, I can do all of this myself and save about 400$ labor.
Just so you know, the SAS is NOT CHEAP..... Some Guru's have told me about 4,000$ to do it REALLY well.(If you go that way, ask around, you may find a cheaper way to go).
Good idea on the Hubs, ...I HATED the auto-locking hubs, and they did get me stuck a couple times!grrr, lol( They unlock when in reverse under some conditions---can't remember, it's been a while since I changed them out). However, it was nice a couple of times(5 degrees below zero and ice/mud outside my door) to not have to get out, hehehe. But yes, the Manual Hubs ARE DEFINITELY better!
Just throwing in some experience and years, ....not trying to be a downer in your Yota'adventure! lol. I admire your ambition and love of your rig, Brian! Can't WAIT to see the "Yellow", btw!
Jun 29, 2010 | 02:28 PM
#304
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From: Walnutport, PA
hey swimmerboy, been watching your build for some time now and feel as though i could offer some advice. Obviously do what you want and take it with a grain of salt. All of us would love to have started out with a locked lifted armored and just plain sick rig but most of us didn't. This could be a good thing as it taught us to pick the right line and go a little slower when encountering harsh situations. Maybe take that into consideration before you dump a but ton of money into your rig and find it's more capable than you. Lockers yes they will get you further than any thing else so they're a great idea. armor is great as well. Not calling you a novice by any means but before you go all sas and 35's might want to get comfortable with some smaller mods. Kinda the you gotta crawl before you walk thing. A built rig is only as good as the driver right. Do a mild cheap lift like the coils and bj spacers with some lockers and armor you'd be very suprised what you can get yourself into. New bumpers and a winch could help as well. So if you do the cheap lift like bj spacers and coils you're not too much in the hole when it comes time to hack off the ifs stuff and get a sfa.
take into consideration the shape of your drive train as well. How's the motor and tranny? Could some of this money be dedicated to upgrading it? and possibly making it more reliable as you stated before it's the Daily driver for now right. To site an example from my rig i first built the motor and tranny before i even thought about the suspension. I figured no matter how sick my rig was with armor and lockers without a stable drive train i'm going to be stuck sooner than i'd like to admit. So i went ahead and built the motor and threw in a new trans. Just some thoughts for ya man wouldn't want you to build a sick runner and go out to flop the darn thing due to lack of experience but then again i could be wrong you might have a load of experience that i didn't take into consideration. Either way start slow and work you way to the goal you want to achieve.
take into consideration the shape of your drive train as well. How's the motor and tranny? Could some of this money be dedicated to upgrading it? and possibly making it more reliable as you stated before it's the Daily driver for now right. To site an example from my rig i first built the motor and tranny before i even thought about the suspension. I figured no matter how sick my rig was with armor and lockers without a stable drive train i'm going to be stuck sooner than i'd like to admit. So i went ahead and built the motor and threw in a new trans. Just some thoughts for ya man wouldn't want you to build a sick runner and go out to flop the darn thing due to lack of experience but then again i could be wrong you might have a load of experience that i didn't take into consideration. Either way start slow and work you way to the goal you want to achieve.
Great input, Mightmouse!
I am, in NO WAY, trying to tell you what to do, Brian...Nor would I presume that what "I'm doing or thinking" is more practical for you. I just have to agree with Mouse on this one..."Just REALLY think about it, that's all". Especially regarding the Motor and Trans, if this, as you said, is going to be your primary vehicle. The main reason I say that is, well, you're selling your primary vehicle.....so while you might not be in 'strapped' situations very often(I would have no idea, lol), ....you WILL be depending on this truck every day, right?
You know I was going for the OME, initially(900$ minimum, plus tax).... I've decided, for now, to stick with the Zuk's, front shocks(possibly a Steering Stablizer) and Bj's, because I've really thought about it and, ....2 things.... (1.) While I have a new motor, my trans is pretty strong, but I can NOT be sure how strong, lol. That's a good chunk of cash to do it right. 1200 for a fully rebuilt one....Plus, whatever else might go out....'Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases?' (2.) I've had the 31's for 8 years, SAME TIRES-80k miles!(10.50x15's BFG's...still have 30% meat on them!), stock height, and I've gone though MUCH of what was at Rausch and all through some WAY back woods stuff in the Sierras and Sequoias for all those years without ever busting anything but an idler arm. NO, I've not crawled crazy rocks or flew through 2' mud pits, lol....but it's brought me LOTS of fun and got me out of MANY situations. I WILL need tires, within the next 20,000 miles, MAX, ...so there's another 800$ installed!
What's changed for me? hehehe. Well, NOW; I have the SAG, and it's riding on the bumpstops nearly.... Plus, it's got ORIGINAL shocks on the front! lol
So, for me, YES ME, NOT YOU, hahhahaa, it's way more practical on the wallet, gas mileage, longevity of motor and planning ahead for maybe a tranny, etc., ...to go with....
70$ for 12"x125# Zuks(should bring me up 2.5-3" in the rear)..including shipping
100$ for Bilstein Front shocks
? $ for BJ's(75-100$?)
100$(?) for good Steering Stablizer(IF NEEDED)
The Idler arm was kinda a PITA but I managed(my first suspension fix, hehehe) and was OEM for 20$-brand new- off EBAY motors. I already have Rancho 9000's in the rear, and if they're not ruined from being bottomed out, I'll stick with those and save another 100$ Not to mention, I can do all of this myself and save about 400$ labor.
Just so you know, the SAS is NOT CHEAP..... Some Guru's have told me about 4,000$ to do it REALLY well.(If you go that way, ask around, you may find a cheaper way to go).
Good idea on the Hubs, ...I HATED the auto-locking hubs, and they did get me stuck a couple times!grrr, lol( They unlock when in reverse under some conditions---can't remember, it's been a while since I changed them out). However, it was nice a couple of times(5 degrees below zero and ice/mud outside my door) to not have to get out, hehehe. But yes, the Manual Hubs ARE DEFINITELY better!
Just throwing in some experience and years, ....not trying to be a downer in your Yota'adventure! lol. I admire your ambition and love of your rig, Brian! Can't WAIT to see the "Yellow", btw!
I am, in NO WAY, trying to tell you what to do, Brian...Nor would I presume that what "I'm doing or thinking" is more practical for you. I just have to agree with Mouse on this one..."Just REALLY think about it, that's all". Especially regarding the Motor and Trans, if this, as you said, is going to be your primary vehicle. The main reason I say that is, well, you're selling your primary vehicle.....so while you might not be in 'strapped' situations very often(I would have no idea, lol), ....you WILL be depending on this truck every day, right?
You know I was going for the OME, initially(900$ minimum, plus tax).... I've decided, for now, to stick with the Zuk's, front shocks(possibly a Steering Stablizer) and Bj's, because I've really thought about it and, ....2 things.... (1.) While I have a new motor, my trans is pretty strong, but I can NOT be sure how strong, lol. That's a good chunk of cash to do it right. 1200 for a fully rebuilt one....Plus, whatever else might go out....'Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases?' (2.) I've had the 31's for 8 years, SAME TIRES-80k miles!(10.50x15's BFG's...still have 30% meat on them!), stock height, and I've gone though MUCH of what was at Rausch and all through some WAY back woods stuff in the Sierras and Sequoias for all those years without ever busting anything but an idler arm. NO, I've not crawled crazy rocks or flew through 2' mud pits, lol....but it's brought me LOTS of fun and got me out of MANY situations. I WILL need tires, within the next 20,000 miles, MAX, ...so there's another 800$ installed!
What's changed for me? hehehe. Well, NOW; I have the SAG, and it's riding on the bumpstops nearly.... Plus, it's got ORIGINAL shocks on the front! lol
So, for me, YES ME, NOT YOU, hahhahaa, it's way more practical on the wallet, gas mileage, longevity of motor and planning ahead for maybe a tranny, etc., ...to go with....
70$ for 12"x125# Zuks(should bring me up 2.5-3" in the rear)..including shipping
100$ for Bilstein Front shocks
? $ for BJ's(75-100$?)
100$(?) for good Steering Stablizer(IF NEEDED)
The Idler arm was kinda a PITA but I managed(my first suspension fix, hehehe) and was OEM for 20$-brand new- off EBAY motors. I already have Rancho 9000's in the rear, and if they're not ruined from being bottomed out, I'll stick with those and save another 100$ Not to mention, I can do all of this myself and save about 400$ labor.
Just so you know, the SAS is NOT CHEAP..... Some Guru's have told me about 4,000$ to do it REALLY well.(If you go that way, ask around, you may find a cheaper way to go).
Good idea on the Hubs, ...I HATED the auto-locking hubs, and they did get me stuck a couple times!grrr, lol( They unlock when in reverse under some conditions---can't remember, it's been a while since I changed them out). However, it was nice a couple of times(5 degrees below zero and ice/mud outside my door) to not have to get out, hehehe. But yes, the Manual Hubs ARE DEFINITELY better!
Just throwing in some experience and years, ....not trying to be a downer in your Yota'adventure! lol. I admire your ambition and love of your rig, Brian! Can't WAIT to see the "Yellow", btw!
Yeah i think i'm going to take some money and rebuild the engine or just swap in a 3.4. And about the hubs, i have manual locking hubs they just dont engage, i tried to rebuild them but still nothing.
Jun 29, 2010 | 04:25 PM
#306
Yeah, ....what do you mean? lol.... Backgate, ....maybe the adjusting nuts backed off and caused the spring to lock up?...BUT BOTH? I would think that's more of diffy or front axle issue, no?
Jun 29, 2010 | 05:55 PM
#307
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 17
From: Just North of Pittsburgh
If I were you I'd build the 22re up and go that route. These rigs are quite capable with the lil 4banger. I rather have a 22re in my 4Runner like my truck.
Pull the hubs apart and rebuild them, I think you'll be alright then.
Pull the hubs apart and rebuild them, I think you'll be alright then.
Jun 29, 2010 | 06:09 PM
#308
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,009
Likes: 122
From: Northeast Pennsylvania
as evidenced by XXXTREME22R's truck, his was very capable stock on the trails. mine wasn't too bad but i'm glad i left when i did.
i will side with the approach of start with the heart of the truck and rebuild the engine 1st....i did it, you could easily do it.
you have alot of ambition and a good grip on what you want to do.
1st, you have a car to sell
i will side with the approach of start with the heart of the truck and rebuild the engine 1st....i did it, you could easily do it.
you have alot of ambition and a good grip on what you want to do.
1st, you have a car to sell
Jun 29, 2010 | 06:16 PM
#309
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 17
From: Just North of Pittsburgh
When that sells he can get a bunch of neat parts to make it go like super duper slow. Kinda funny isn't it. Most of the time when your rebuilding cars its to go fast. We rebuild these so we can go way slow... 4.88's dual t-case 35's = real slow...
Jun 29, 2010 | 06:38 PM
#311
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 17
From: Just North of Pittsburgh
Well when we were at Rausch I was helping him with the brake issue on the trail and noticed the hubs were unlocked. So I turned the pass side to lock and when I went to turn the drivers it would not go all the way to "lock" when I mentioned to him that they were unlocked he said that they wouldn't "lock" but he was running in 4low. That's all I know.
Jun 30, 2010 | 03:36 AM
#312
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From: Walnutport, PA
They wont turn all the way to lock.
I'm not sure what the exact problem is.
Yeah i think im going to build up the 22RE i like that engine. Also, i rebuilt the hubs, the gears must be shot.
Yes rebuilding my engine is first! And my car is currently sitting on craigslist waiting for a lucky buyer to find her.
They will turn about halfway to lock but won't go any further.
Exactly, the passenger side goes about 95% of the way to lock and the drivers side goes to about 50%
as evidenced by XXXTREME22R's truck, his was very capable stock on the trails. mine wasn't too bad but i'm glad i left when i did.
i will side with the approach of start with the heart of the truck and rebuild the engine 1st....i did it, you could easily do it.
you have alot of ambition and a good grip on what you want to do.
1st, you have a car to sell
i will side with the approach of start with the heart of the truck and rebuild the engine 1st....i did it, you could easily do it.
you have alot of ambition and a good grip on what you want to do.
1st, you have a car to sell
Well when we were at Rausch I was helping him with the brake issue on the trail and noticed the hubs were unlocked. So I turned the pass side to lock and when I went to turn the drivers it would not go all the way to "lock" when I mentioned to him that they were unlocked he said that they wouldn't "lock" but he was running in 4low. That's all I know.
Jun 30, 2010 | 10:47 AM
#313
Hmmmm, sounds like you either improperly adjusted the adjustment nut in the hub when rebuilding/repacking them.....or it's something more serious. I'm sure you'll get some great answers, Brian!
Jun 30, 2010 | 11:21 AM
#315
Well, you'll get plenty of input on that as well, I'm sure. lol. I have the Warn Premium Chromium Steel Cap and Dial Hubs....because I'd heard the stock ones they offer can bust pretty easily. I've used mine a few times, but not TONS, but they worked GREAT! Especially compared to my AutoLocking Hubs. Lol! We humped a few very rocky creeks and lil logs, and, well, they stayed locked! lol. Some will recommend you just go with the Aisin Hubs, and in fact, I'm sure there are a couple guys on here that might be selling some.
PS> What brings you to say "100% sure they're shot"?? Just curious...maybe it's a quick fix that some guys on here can run through with you?( I mean, you have to tear them down anyway, right?) ....it COULD be the adjustment nut or something, ya know? I remember having to tear back down one of my Warns because I'd misread something in the instructions. Then the second hub was a piece-o-cakeola! lol. OH YEAH, ...except for those cone washers, ....luckily, I read up and found the easy method to remove them before mangling them with a Punch like the STUPID BOOK called for! Yep, a Brass Shaft and a Hammer, ....tap tap tap, ...SHLINGGGGG they flew! I think Toyota wanted like 65$ for a set of those! hahaha.
PS> What brings you to say "100% sure they're shot"?? Just curious...maybe it's a quick fix that some guys on here can run through with you?( I mean, you have to tear them down anyway, right?) ....it COULD be the adjustment nut or something, ya know? I remember having to tear back down one of my Warns because I'd misread something in the instructions. Then the second hub was a piece-o-cakeola! lol. OH YEAH, ...except for those cone washers, ....luckily, I read up and found the easy method to remove them before mangling them with a Punch like the STUPID BOOK called for! Yep, a Brass Shaft and a Hammer, ....tap tap tap, ...SHLINGGGGG they flew! I think Toyota wanted like 65$ for a set of those! hahaha.
Jun 30, 2010 | 12:23 PM
#316
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 1
From: Windsor,Virginia
why dont you just get new aisins from wabfab??? he has very good prices and every place i have read says that the aisins are way more reliable than the warns. but good luck with what ever you choose!!! lol
Jun 30, 2010 | 12:27 PM
#317
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,574
Likes: 72
From: Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Before you do anything with the hubs, when and/or if you have me come down there to help out with the lift etc. etc, Let me take look at those hubs. Not that you did anything wrong with them the last time you rebuilt them, but there is very little that can go wrong with the AISIN hubs.
Jun 30, 2010 | 12:57 PM
#318
Hey, Xxxtreme, ....didn't you say you were gonna be in Palos Verdes next week, .....on my street.....HECK, IN MY GARAGE for a few days? My Zuks are in the mail.....I NEED YA! hahahaha. Jk, ...dang, Brian, you really got it good having some good homies near you in PA! lol
Jun 30, 2010 | 05:09 PM
#320
OH TRUST ME, X, I'm doing the same, eventually. I just have too many thing on this rig that really need a going over or rebuild, like the tranny, ...so yeah, I planned on doing the OME< but just in time. For now, these should do me fine!
hahaha. TACKLE? nahhhh, c'mon, yer kidding, right? I've honestly never heard anyone having a problem....Yeah, I'll assume you're kidding me, ...RIGHT? 
HAHAHA
hahaha. TACKLE? nahhhh, c'mon, yer kidding, right? I've honestly never heard anyone having a problem....Yeah, I'll assume you're kidding me, ...RIGHT? HAHAHA
