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For some reason, been doing some reading on some of the hard warm start threads on YT, I have pretty much always had a warm start issue that is a bit of an in between case, meaning that it starts fine anywhere from immediately after shutoff, to maybe 45 mins or so, I don't have exact numbers, but quick runs into a store and out no problems, but after some period of cool down, where I am not quite at cold and not really at hot, the engine just does not start on that first crank. Usually what happens is I crank it, and it wants to start but just dies when I let off the key. So then if I crank again, it will usually do same thing, so then I stomp on gas pedal and wroom it's running. I have tested my cold start switch in the past and it seemed fine according to readings, my IACV works and opens and closes. Not really a big deal to me, this is kindof a rare situation for me, but still it is there in the back of my mind as something to fix.
On the 1988 (and possibly newer) 22re, the ECU can provide a ground path for the STJ signal to the cold start injector, and if you read this info from Ray: CSI System, it talks about the ECU providing that ground path for the CSI at temperatures up to 113 F. So that got me interested to go pull both my cold start switch and the water temp sensor and actually measure them.
Here is my test setup, I drilled 3 holes in a paint stir stick, a glass pyrex bowl for the water, an oven temp gauge, a Fluke multimeter for the resistance readings. I then boiled a big measuring cup of water in the microwave, and then dumped it here in this bowl, let it all sit for a few minutes and then started taking readings. And yes you do see 3 sensors here in the picture, one is the cold start timer switch, one is the water temp sensor both OEM original to the truck, and the other is an aftermarket temp sensor that was a snafu that I bought prob 10 years ago and mistakenly put in the truck...more on that later. I just wanted to compare the aftermarket readings to the OEM sensor.
Ok so first up, my cold start sensor is Toyota PN 89462-20010. The FSM really only has 2 temperature areas where resistance is spec'd, below 50 F, and above 77 F. Doesn't really say what the resistance should be between 77 F and 50 F, but as you can see in the data, my resistance stayed at about 81 Ohms until somewhere around 48 F where I saw it flip like a light switch over to about 41 Ohms. Note I did have to throw a bunch of ice into the bowl to get it to start dropping down into the range where cold start timer would even kick in. Here is my data plotted out. I'd say my cold start timer switch works fine. I did clean it up good with some steel wool and a toothbrush, cleaned the copper washer really good and scuffed up the intake face where the copper washer touches, and ran a battery wire brush into the threaded hole to clean that up.
Next up the water temperature sensor. So the backstory on this is that maybe 10 years or heck even 12 years ago, when I first got this truck, the temp sensor connector was busted off and just hanging there unconnected. So I purchased a connector end from a YT member cut from a 1988 22re. The connector though did not fit on my water temp sensor....confused, I went to auto parts store, and they pulled out a water temp sensor for a 1988 4Runner that DID match the connector. I was bewildered, but went home with the aftermarket sensor, took the one installed out, and replaced it with this aftermarket and soldered up the connector and that is how the truck has been for all this time. Now as I do some research I see that Toyota changed the temp sensor style in mid 1988....my truck is Jan 1988 so it is the earlier style....so bottom line the 22re plug that I bought from a YT member belongs to a later 22re. I was so young and dumb that I did not realize what I was doing at the time. Anyway, luckily I did not throw the OEM sensor away, and now I am in process of gettng the proper plug to put it back into operation. Okay....on to the data...
The blue line is my OEM sensor and red line is the aftermarket, and it lines up almost perfectly with the aftermarket one....so I guess good news for the aftermarket community they did a good job. I was hoping that there would be a big difference and installing my OEM sensor would alter truck behavior but now seeing data I don't think so (still waiting on my replacement connector to be able to actually start the truck up). Yellow line is data I pulled as the lower limit from the FSM which really was only a graph with not really any lines of graticule, so I copied the graph into PowerPoint and drew straight lines on it to kindof get as close as possible. Bottom line here, both my OEM sensor and the aftermarket one seem pretty close to the FSM spec in most places. I did clean up the OEM sensor with steel wool and put a new copper washer on it and cleaned some crud out of the threads....so heck maybe something will be different when I start it all back up.
Last edited by coryc85; 04-01-2023 at 10:07 AM.
Reason: Forgot to put Ray's link
Finally received my Standard Motor Products HP4585 connector from Rock Auto...took a while to get here. I removed the other water temp sensor connector (that was wrong) and then soldered this new on and taped up the wiring real good. I refilled the coolant I drained and then took the truck out for some errands. Running fine so far so I don't think I screwed anything up, I have not encountered my odd hot start scenario yet, so not sure if anything has changed, I really doubt that I made the situation better, but I feel better having the proper OEM sensor in there.
On an unrelated topic, I have not had a low speed fan setting for a while, I figured my blower resistor was burned out on one setting....and then recently I found that another fan setting was also gone. So ordered up a new blower resistor from Rock Auto and threw that in there while I was out there. Here is the old one.
Hey Cory... Thats not bad, myself I've learned that if I can get OEM at close to or near aftermarket OEM wins.
Oil filters are the same way, but they are climbing slowly....
As far as my runner, I have them on hold for several years now for personal reasons. I'm actually driving around the 3rd Gen 2001 which uses a few of the same stuff from the 1st gen. Last year the rear drum toasted so had to replace them plus the brake cylinders and it turns out that they are the same as the 1st gens. Yeah using the 3rd gen because son is in the USAF another 4yrs. from this month.
Hopefully buying new cheap mig/tig welder this year but whats been my excuse is argon gas turns out its hard to get here and if you can get it its really expensive, so I haven't purchased because I would like to have the gas setup before the wwelder so i can test immediately after recieving it. As far as my procrastination, been doing things are the House and building a RC mower to cut some time mowing soon after turning it autonomus. Turns out that even a harding thing to do when parts are in shortage or priced up, but so far I have all the apart to finish a RC mower with the exception of batteries, I might just bite the bullet and get regular car batteries and figure out how to add a 12 v dual battery smart isolator with a alternator for endless charging. Batteries are for the robot motors left and right wheel motors.
As far as the 1st gen they are next on my list including the Sunrader which I have been in the mist looking at material to repair fiberglass and rebuild the flooring using nida core making solid from rot. as well closing off the passage to the cab making a fiberglass door.
Wife I got fed up with homeowners insurance so we just paid off the last 10yrs of the motgage and going to take the risk not to have insurance and use the money saved to redo the roof most likely metal. You wondering how much can be saved by dropping homeowners. Well this year a whopping 18k which in 3 years if there no increase in premium would have been 54K along with that Flood has gone up a whopping 2x. So I'm just tired of all these gouging.
In anycase I'll be at the start of redoing the runners hopefully this year if I can get everything else in order.
Hope that fills you in of what mostly I've been doing for sometime now.
Yeah homeowners insurance has certainly gone up the last couple years quite a bit. It hurts for sure. Hopefully with all this money you are saving you can throw some cash at the 4Runners & sunrader.
The camper on Craigslist is a alum camper. I like the idea of fiberglass much more.
The only issue I've been pondering is the Roof. I was going to use alum tubing to add support, but the cost is out of this world. I was going to get impact glasses but when i study them it makes no sense other than less labor. I went with polycarbonate panels but the real story is I bought Alumin angles to add to places I needed support 2x2x1/8 cost per/ft went up out of this world. I bought 1x1x1/16 to build a light weight frame for the rc mower. That cost me 45$ for the 24ft lenght and that was on a discounted price and probably the last time I could get those prices considering everyone I know in the company from the owner to the sales people have either died or retired. I found a source up near you on the east side whom has nida core sheets at a very discounted rate which is great since I want it for the flooring. And the resin and fiber at a hialeah shop that sells all of that pretty cheap for small qty. Oh as far as the 1x1x1/16 tubing I found some sq tubing from a metal table and its enough to start and finish a rc mower frame. So that meansing I can use the 6 x 24' tsq tubing I bought I can use for the roof support in the sunrader. But that can change.
Currently I'm looking for romex 14/2 for replacing the old lightings in the house to those recessed LED lights. I purchased 72 lights to install around the house and looking for the same but in projection style for the kitchen. Gives it a better look and brighter. Been buying a ton of stuff at the local hardware store like casing (colonial style) and base boards. A bunch of other stuff, but don't want to bore you with all that.
Just finished up my CE classes for the State over the weekend so little by little my schedule is getting better.
My intake rubber tube from the plastic cross tube to the throttle body inlet was getting very hard and non-rubbery, so I decided to order a new one. I decided to give one from ebay a try since they are so cheap, this one was $12 shipped, hard to beat.
Also, on the plastic crossover tube from the AFM to the throttle body, it kindof lays on top of the radiator shroud a little bit, and I noticed it was starting to wear an indent in the radiator shroud and a wear spot on the plastic tube, I'm guessing because the foam padding in the middle of the tube was long since gone, so I scraped and cleaned the area as best I could and I attached this piece of foam tape, hopefully it holds up. For now it looks like it is spacing the plastic tube away from the shroud.
I've used one of those knock off rubber boots for about 5 years now, it looks way too good and performs too well for the little amount of money they charge for them.
My truck has been smoking\burning oil for probably years, but I'm starting to notice more, maybe because I drive it more, not sure. Especially after idling for a bit, it will smoke when I accelerate, and just in general I have to keep an eye on the oil level because oil is disappearing. It runs pretty darn good, but I'm thinking that at 35 years and a bit over 200k miles, maybe the engine is getting pretty tired. I did a compression test on it this morning for first time ever, and it shows pretty much 150 across the board, cylinder 3 was a tad under 150, maybe 145. Trying to decide here if getting the head redone is worthwhile or if it needs the whole engine rebuilt.
I think it DEFINITELY needs new valve seals, so headwork for sure. I think what I am mentally tossing around is, do I go full rebuild and pull the engine or do I just get the head reworked. I guess I'm leaning toward just pulling the head, leaving the block alone, I think it will last me many more years, I honestly don't even drive this thing that much.
My clutch pedal was doing a lot of squeaking lately, so I got in there to see what was happening, hoping to just lube the pivot point, but as I looked in there, I could see fluid leaking around the little pushrod on the clutch master cylinder and it smelled and felt like brake fluid to me. So I ordered a new Aisin clutch master from Rock Auto, and that showed up Thursday, so I changed that out today. I looked back, in I think 2010 I had changed the clutch master before, so about 14 years I guess is not too bad. Only been probably 25000 miles, but I guess age wears stuff out as much as use. I'm around 205,000 miles.
The next few months are going to be some good ones for this old truck. I ordered a reman'd head from a seller on eBay, I went back and forth asking him some questions and I called some local shops to compare, and ultimately decided to go with this guy off eBay. I don't have the head yet, hopefully when I get it I will be happy with my purchase.
Of course going to order a new Toyota headgasket, I need the EGR plate gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, etc.
I purchased a Throttle body rebuild kit from LC Engineering, really all it has is those little shaft seals and a new TB to intake gasket. At the same time, I ordered one of LCEs fuel banjo adapters so I can thread in a fuel pressure gauge to my cold start. Really did this because I have a warm start issue sometimes, and I want to check my fuel pressure and see if anything is strange there.
Probably going to order a new OEM TPS. Electrically I think mine has always checked out fine, but I did notice last time I had it out that it does not snap back smoothly and crisply, in fact you can hear or feel a little grit to it, so I suspect it maybe has some gunk inside and the spring maybe is probably tired after 35 years.
Need to start ordering some of this stuff, the head will be here in the next week or so, I'd like to have everything sitting here ready to go to minimize the downtime of my truck.
So Throttle Body rebuild with the new shaft seals, new TPS, new head and headgasket (hopefully no more burning oil), new spark plugs, and some other misc stuff.
One thing I have been wanting to do for a while is put my original Toyota fuel injectors back in. Several years ago, someone on Yotatech sent me a set of those Flamethrower injectors and I've been running them ever since. Nothing is wrong with the Flamethrowers, but nothing is wrong with my originals either except they are dirty. So I dug them out of the attic, and the rubber bits were all crumbly and the plastic pintle caps were broken and brittle. So I ordered a rebuild set off eBay that came with all that new stuff and new little filters, and came with a filter removal tool to yank out the old filters.
I watched some videos on cleaning injectors at home with a tire valve stem (schrader removed) and a bottle of carb cleaner plus a battery to toggle the injector open. Here is my setup of that, I clamped the injector into a little hobby vise, and I used a household light switch wired to a 9V battery to open and close the injector. You hold a water bottle over the end of the injector to catch the dirty carb cleaner, and with a clear bottle you can actually watch the spray pattern. This actually works surprisingly well, I could definitely see a couple of the injectors the first few squirts were not the nice V spray, but then after a few cycles, the spray pattern cleared up nicely. What I did was press the carb cleaner spray 4 quick times to "charge" it up, and then I toggle the injector on and off several times, watching the spray, and then I just repeat that over and over. I used probably 75% of the bottle of carb cleaner, just doing this over and over until I felt like the spray was good. And then after I did all 4, I repeated the whole thing again to to make sure all the patterns looked good.
My rebuild head showed up last week from eBay. It has Toyota valves in it, that I suppose have been reground, the stem ends certainly I can see have been ground. One of the exhaust studs has been helicoiled and is not 100% perpendicular to the head, that bothers me a little, but my original head has 2 helicoiled exhaust studs already and another that I know needs to be because it has always had an oversized bolt in it, so I guess overall, having this reman'd head with 1 helicoil is not that bad.
My LCE throttle body seals and the cold start fuel union for the pressure gauge showed up as well, but not gonna mess with that until I tear everything down.
Now I have to get off my butt and order the Toyota parts, headgasket mainly, but I need some other misc stuff to get this head swapped.
I'm glad to see you are still active on this forum, I haven't been around in about 6 yrs, it took me a little bit to get all caught up on your thread! It's nice to see you still have your 4runner and are still keeping it well maintained & looking good after all these years, it really makes me wish I had kept mine!
02-20-2022, 12:58 PM
