3.4Auto 4Runner swapped into a 3.0Manual Pickup dream machine>Issues
03-05-2010, 12:50 AM
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3.4Auto 4Runner swapped into a 3.0Manual Pickup dream machine>Issues
Ok, about 6 months ago my U joints went out at 70mph and ripped my transmission off the block, destroying my rear drive-shaft, bell housing, and 3.0 engine block in one fell swoop (on the way to the shop to change them out) 
I had already been thinking about doing the swap, but couldn't justify it. obviously the gods intend me to make my dream a reality.
So, i finally found me a great deal on a complete set of donor parts to start my swap. I have a whole list of modifications i need to do before i'll be satisfied which i'll get to in a bit, but because of money constraints here are my 3 top priorities and issues with them. hopefully you guys can give some pointers, and hopefully after i have completed my project I can continue to spread the wealth of knowledge this forum and experience has provided me with.
#1 Donor vehicle is a 97 4runner with an automatic. I intend to keep my 5sp manual and therefore from what i understand I will need to get the computer re-flashed and all should be well. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
#2 Engine space requirements. I have read that you have to do a 2" body lift or cut out part of the hood or this engine wont fit. I have the torsion bars tightened until I can afford a real lift and a solid front axle, but I'm wondering about people's individual experiences with this.
#3 I am planning on running dual exhaust in an H pipe configuration with twin ct26 turbos due to the low cost (found a pair for 200$ total) and the fact that this is going to be a 40%baja, 40%misc offroading, 20% daily driver vehicle. I intend to keep the stock tranny and use a heavy duty clutch but would like to make sure it all can handle the power. Is this a naive idea and if so, why? Anything else i should know about this besides needing to do a rebuild on the turbos?
#4 With a dual pipe setup on an engine designed for a single exhaust, am i going to run into issues with emissions and inspection if i'm putting in 2 cats and 4 o2 sensors?
Eventually I want to have:
trd front and rear axle with electronic lockers and about 2-4" total lift,
moly/chrome piston rings,
supercharger in addition to the twin turbos,
custom hood scoop
forged pistons,
4 point suspension front and rear,
mickey Thompson baja claw 31X10.50's,
warn 9000lb winch & custom bumper/push-bar/brush-guard to mount it on,
roll cage with enough lights to blind the international space station,
rhino line the whole interior,
replace the bench seat with bucket seats and 4 point harnesses, and
rhino lining on the bottom foot of the exterior.
That's all I can think of for now, but it's still in the planning stages till things turn a little more green around here, so for now, the simple swap. I am new to this field, but am quickly becoming obsessed, so any suggestions on my 3 top priorities or the rest of the list would be extremely appreciated.
I had already been thinking about doing the swap, but couldn't justify it. obviously the gods intend me to make my dream a reality.
So, i finally found me a great deal on a complete set of donor parts to start my swap. I have a whole list of modifications i need to do before i'll be satisfied which i'll get to in a bit, but because of money constraints here are my 3 top priorities and issues with them. hopefully you guys can give some pointers, and hopefully after i have completed my project I can continue to spread the wealth of knowledge this forum and experience has provided me with.
#1 Donor vehicle is a 97 4runner with an automatic. I intend to keep my 5sp manual and therefore from what i understand I will need to get the computer re-flashed and all should be well. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
#2 Engine space requirements. I have read that you have to do a 2" body lift or cut out part of the hood or this engine wont fit. I have the torsion bars tightened until I can afford a real lift and a solid front axle, but I'm wondering about people's individual experiences with this.
#3 I am planning on running dual exhaust in an H pipe configuration with twin ct26 turbos due to the low cost (found a pair for 200$ total) and the fact that this is going to be a 40%baja, 40%misc offroading, 20% daily driver vehicle. I intend to keep the stock tranny and use a heavy duty clutch but would like to make sure it all can handle the power. Is this a naive idea and if so, why? Anything else i should know about this besides needing to do a rebuild on the turbos?
#4 With a dual pipe setup on an engine designed for a single exhaust, am i going to run into issues with emissions and inspection if i'm putting in 2 cats and 4 o2 sensors?
Eventually I want to have:
trd front and rear axle with electronic lockers and about 2-4" total lift,
moly/chrome piston rings,
supercharger in addition to the twin turbos,
custom hood scoop
forged pistons,
4 point suspension front and rear,
mickey Thompson baja claw 31X10.50's,
warn 9000lb winch & custom bumper/push-bar/brush-guard to mount it on,
roll cage with enough lights to blind the international space station,
rhino line the whole interior,
replace the bench seat with bucket seats and 4 point harnesses, and
rhino lining on the bottom foot of the exterior.
That's all I can think of for now, but it's still in the planning stages till things turn a little more green around here, so for now, the simple swap. I am new to this field, but am quickly becoming obsessed, so any suggestions on my 3 top priorities or the rest of the list would be extremely appreciated.
Last edited by thestrikingviking; 03-05-2010 at 06:33 AM.
03-05-2010, 07:35 AM
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Update. Called the dealer today and it turns out they can't convert the computer by flashing it to a manual from an automatic. I also found that the tranny from my 93 toyota not only bolts right up, but is in fact the same tranny as a 97 4 runner manual. Also, it turns out that they have 3 different models of computer in that same year depending on which month it was built in. not sure how much difference in the way it would run using a different month, but good to know.
03-05-2010, 08:43 AM
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Dig through here, there are plenty of answers to all of your questions. Read through all of the sticky threads at the top of the 3.4 swap section. First go here.
http://www.offroadsolutions.com/
They have most of the info you would be seeking for this swap.
If you plan on having a 5 speed when you are done, then use a 5 speed as the donor. It's the easiest way. Plus there have been numerous occasions that a 3.4 that came out of an automatic was not machined for a pilot bearing. This would be a big problem. If you want the job to go smooth, get all of the parts motor, ecu, harness, accessories from the same truck.
http://www.offroadsolutions.com/
They have most of the info you would be seeking for this swap.
If you plan on having a 5 speed when you are done, then use a 5 speed as the donor. It's the easiest way. Plus there have been numerous occasions that a 3.4 that came out of an automatic was not machined for a pilot bearing. This would be a big problem. If you want the job to go smooth, get all of the parts motor, ecu, harness, accessories from the same truck.
03-05-2010, 01:24 PM
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Yeah. I know thats always best, but I couldnt pass up the whole kit for 700, even if it takes alot more work. I just picked up the engine after calling the dealer, they tell me that if i get an ecu that matches the engine manufacture date and is set up for a manual, it should work. As far as the not being machined for a pilot bearing that is very useful information.
I have been to that website many times, but I didnt find anything about turbos, power handling capability of the tranny etc.. Nor have i found anything in anyone else's threads and i have looked through everything that looks like it might have what i'm asking. I read through ors' guide as well as 4x4wire.com. These were very helpful in my decision to do the swap, and in general information about what to look out for. Now i'm looking more for specifics, like how to make what i've got work, or whether i should go back to the drawing board.
I have been to that website many times, but I didnt find anything about turbos, power handling capability of the tranny etc.. Nor have i found anything in anyone else's threads and i have looked through everything that looks like it might have what i'm asking. I read through ors' guide as well as 4x4wire.com. These were very helpful in my decision to do the swap, and in general information about what to look out for. Now i'm looking more for specifics, like how to make what i've got work, or whether i should go back to the drawing board.
03-05-2010, 05:55 PM
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Well I think first of all you need to look at forced induction and see what is requited for that. Just bolting twin turbos off an old Supra and letting it rip is guaranteed to cost you and engine.
To do it right you need some way to add fuel to go along with all the new air first of all. Second one of those turbos was on a 3.0L Supra 6cyl and you are putting 2 of them on a 3.4L engine. It will be laggy and IMO not worth the work. They are also big over all size wise and will not be easy to mount. have you thought about were you are going to put them yet?
I know you will not listen to anything I have to say and you need to do it first and learn the hard way. Everyone else seems to do but trust me, you may have the parts to do it but you need the knowledge to do it right.
It will be much much cheaper to buy an old TRD S/C kit and put that on for a bit more power.
The R family of Toyota transmissions are very strong, you will not have any problem with the power you will be making with your 5vz. That's as long as you get a well looked after transmission.
Good luck with your new setup but please do lots of research first or you are doomed to failer and lots of wasted $$$.
To do it right you need some way to add fuel to go along with all the new air first of all. Second one of those turbos was on a 3.0L Supra 6cyl and you are putting 2 of them on a 3.4L engine. It will be laggy and IMO not worth the work. They are also big over all size wise and will not be easy to mount. have you thought about were you are going to put them yet?
I know you will not listen to anything I have to say and you need to do it first and learn the hard way. Everyone else seems to do but trust me, you may have the parts to do it but you need the knowledge to do it right.
It will be much much cheaper to buy an old TRD S/C kit and put that on for a bit more power.
The R family of Toyota transmissions are very strong, you will not have any problem with the power you will be making with your 5vz. That's as long as you get a well looked after transmission.
Good luck with your new setup but please do lots of research first or you are doomed to failer and lots of wasted $$$.
03-05-2010, 08:35 PM
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Those trannys are not the same. Your 97 uses the computer to shift and lockup so they are not direct swaps.
The ECM will not work in any way with switching to manual. You need to find a 5speed ECm and harness as the harness is different in the 97's including different plugs into the ECM.
The ECM will not work in any way with switching to manual. You need to find a 5speed ECm and harness as the harness is different in the 97's including different plugs into the ECM.
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03-05-2010, 09:33 PM
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thanks dntsdad. as for not listening, why would i be asking if not to listen. I have also been considering the supercharger. as for the sc and twin turbos, this was going to be after forged pistons and new rings as well as hardened gears in the tranny and a bigger rear diff/poly bushings. One problem i have is that most of my performance advice is coming from a guy who usually does work on rock crawlers, and one who usually does sports cars, so they are limited on my area of dreaming. as for the tranny being the same, that info was from the dealer, so i guess i was blind in my faith. Space was considered in choosing the turbos, and no i was not sure if they would fit, but was hoping.
Lastly, I know i need more fuel to get anything out of the turbos, and i had been considering new fuel pumps and adjusting the timing, but obviously my first concearn is to get the engine in there and running, then i can do some more research and tweaking
Lastly, I know i need more fuel to get anything out of the turbos, and i had been considering new fuel pumps and adjusting the timing, but obviously my first concearn is to get the engine in there and running, then i can do some more research and tweaking
Last edited by thestrikingviking; 03-05-2010 at 09:35 PM.
03-06-2010, 09:36 AM
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03-06-2010, 09:56 AM
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I'm doing this same swap right now. 97 3.4Lauto to 89 toyota 4runner manual.
I have everything ready to go in on monday including a supercharger from a 02 trd.
from what Ive heard your auto ECM will power that motor just fine. the problems you will run into is your check engine light will stay on because that ecm will be missing speed sensor signals that the auto trans should be sending to the ecm.
It seems like nobody has been able to trick the computer into thinking the auto trans is there. I will know more as soon as I get to my wiring.
I have everything ready to go in on monday including a supercharger from a 02 trd.
from what Ive heard your auto ECM will power that motor just fine. the problems you will run into is your check engine light will stay on because that ecm will be missing speed sensor signals that the auto trans should be sending to the ecm.
It seems like nobody has been able to trick the computer into thinking the auto trans is there. I will know more as soon as I get to my wiring.
03-07-2010, 12:07 PM
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Thanks a bunch mechaniman. that helps alot. at least that makes me think i can get it installed and up and running with what i've got until I can get the truly compatible ecu. I'm going through baja withdrawls. Do you mind if i ask where you found this information so i can do some cross referencing?
03-07-2010, 12:21 PM
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Also, one other question. does the wiring harness match up connector-wise to the computer? basically, if i install the auto ecu and then buy a manual version, Can i just re-wire it at the computer?
Last edited by thestrikingviking; 03-07-2010 at 12:23 PM.
03-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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It is true that in 1997 toyota used two different style plugs - one for an auto harness and one for a manual harness, but the cool thing is that in 1998 they went to one style for both (manual and automatic). That one style for both in 98 is that same as a 97 auto harness - get where I am goin here? If you match up your wiring diagrams 97 auto to the 98 manual and make sure that all of the pins are in the same spot, and if not - move them, then you can use a 98 manual trans ecu with your 97 harness and not have to worry about buying new plugs, pigtails, or anything else, just the ecu.
03-07-2010, 04:38 PM
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Are you sure the 98 ecu will work for my 97 engine? the Toyota dealer tells me it has to be the same production date range, but i know they don't deal much with mods. Basically i just need confirmation before i go spend 100-200$ on a new computer just to relist it on ksl lol.
Last edited by thestrikingviking; 03-07-2010 at 04:39 PM.
03-07-2010, 07:36 PM
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If you don't feel confident in your wiring skills, then you should just buy the complete motor, harness, and ecu out of the same vehicle. I know that I could make it work - but I can't say the same for you or anyone else. If you cant read ewd's, then saving money prob wont be an option. Not trying to be mean or anything, but if you get that 98 ecu and dont look at the wiring diagrams, plug up the 97 harness and it fries the harness and/or computer I dont want you coming after me saying it was my fault. Also you need to look at the little stuff like the tps sensor, make sure that both have the same amount of wires. Something like this takes some research, dont just take my word for it.
03-07-2010, 08:41 PM
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Lol, I never take anyone's word for it. but i definitely take advice and cross check it. I am confident in my wiring ability, I hate wiring, but i'm competent. thank you.
01-25-2011, 11:27 AM
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hey, i would really like to know how this all turned out for you. i am in the middle of the same swap, but am at what seems to be a dead end when it comes to the ecm/ harness issue. i bought a 97 3.4, wiring harness cut to hell, and no ecm. i just bought a 97 ecm from a manual truck with the part number 89661 3D310, but now i need to find the engine harness to match. toyota dealers aren't giving me enough info on which harnesses i can use and cannot use. the engine came from an auto, but im installing it into a manual...
01-25-2011, 11:45 AM
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well, first off, the engine isnt going to make a difference as far as i know other than having to use new bolts for the flywheel. the ecm for the manual tranny should be a cakewalk compared to all the wiring i ended up having to do. Truck has been running great for almost a year now. you need a wiring harness from any of the 3.4 manuals up to 98. in 98 the manual harness went to the same configuration as the auto for earlier years. have you been to techinfo yet? they show you the connectors and what the wires all function as so you can double check and just repin any that might be different. I dont think there will be any discrepancies
01-25-2011, 03:58 PM
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hey, i would really like to know how this all turned out for you. i am in the middle of the same swap, but am at what seems to be a dead end when it comes to the ecm/ harness issue. i bought a 97 3.4, wiring harness cut to hell, and no ecm. i just bought a 97 ecm from a manual truck with the part number 89661 3D310, but now i need to find the engine harness to match. toyota dealers aren't giving me enough info on which harnesses i can use and cannot use. the engine came from an auto, but im installing it into a manual...
You could pick up a 97 manual harness or the cheaper way would to find a used auto harness as they are easier to find and then repin it.
I think the manual harness for the 97 is part #82121-3D420 $384 at Toyota of Dallas. I would search for an auto harness and repin it for that much though.
