8lugnuts

My '96 T just turned a young 130K. About a week ago while I was driving it I noticed a screechy/metallic sound on the right front that was chiming along with the rotation cadence of the wheel. I determined the brake caliper is either seizing or has already seized up. I figured it would be a good time to replace both front calipers and break hoses. I checked my local Advance auto store and they sell a couple of different brands, they sell a couple of dozen types among three brands: Beck/Arnley, Fenco, and Dorman. Only a few are listed as "Exact Fit". The Beck/Arnleys are rebuilt and seem to be more expensive. I have never heard of the other two brands.

I searched the site but did not come up with any recommendations or preferences on calipers so I am hoping to get your feedback based on your experience.

I am also looking for advice on brake hoses. It seems from many posts here there are stainless steel types that are better....?

8lugnuts

SCToy

The rebuilt Napa Calipers I got my truck were of good quality. Just a stock caliper with new seals, paint etc.

Danegod

Stock replacements from Napa or similar should do you just fine. The break on the T100 are not too shabby IMO. Also if your stock break lines aren't leaking you shouldn't really need to replace them. You can upgrade them to the stainless braided lines, but it isn't really a necessity. I see in your sig you are planning on upgrading stuff. If you are planning on doing a lift or SAS or anything along those lines, you will need to put longer break lines in anyway. So if you are keeping it stock for now, just leave them the way they are. No sense in upgrading something then turning around and replacing it in a little while.

CJM

I had issues with ones from autozone and pepboys locking on me alot. I ponyed up the money for the napa eclipse ones and have had no issues with my brakes.

8lugnuts

Thanks for the input. I am a bit wary of rebuilt brake parts like calipers and really don't want to mess around when it comes to brakes. Plus I'm not really trusting of the big "discount" auto parts stores for certain parts but I do trust NAPA parts more than the others. Never heard of Napa eclipse, I will ask my local store about them. I probably won't upgrade to the braided hoses yet unless NAPA carries them. I do plan to lift it some, nothing extreme, maybe 3in.

8lugnuts

Ordered two "fully loaded" Raybestos Professional Grade Remanufactured calipers from Amazon.com(RC10375 & RC10376). About $70ea. plus free shipping. All I gotta do is drop them in since they come with everything. I bought a bleeding tool at Harbor Frght. this weekend, never used one of these but I am looking forward to seeing how good it works.

When I lifted my T up I noticed my driver's side front wheel had a lot of play in it. I remember last Nov. I replaced the front drive shaft on that side because the boot ripped up. I know you are not suppose to loosen the hub nuts for that job but I remember starting that and realizing I didn't need to. I remember re-tightening it but cannot remember how many turns out I made and how many back in. I'm gonna tighten down on them again and just feel the play in the wheel as I do it until it seems tight enough. I hope it did not damage my bearings, doesn't seem like it since the wheel spins freely, catches a little on the caliper. There's a little play on the passenger side to but nothing like this!

My rotors seem kinda thin. I'm going back to Harb. Frgt to get a digital caliper to measure the width. I think 25mm or > is good.

8lugnuts

CJM

I had the same raybestos unloaded calipers, trust me when I say this they arent worth the salt. It tried like 5x and they kept locking after a month or so.

8lugnuts

Hopefully I don't experience the same results...

8lugnuts

So I got both brake calipers in, got one of those self-bleeders at Harbor Freight. It seemed to work pretty good except that when I pumped the pressure up to build up pressure in the canister(like the instructions state) the pressure would start falling little by little. But I used it the bleed the snot out of the front calipers anyway and it seemed to work good.

When I pump the pedal with the motor not running it is high and hard, and stays high. When I start the motor it goes right to the floor and pumping it does not bring it back up, although there seems to be a little response it's not enough. I bled the fronts again but still the same response.

Note that my master cylinder fluid never ran low or dry....and there are no leaks anywhere. I kept the cylinder full with new fluid as I went along.

I also opted not to replace the brake hoses yet, they seem to be in good condition, although I did strip the bolt fitting from one brake line (to the caliper) I still managed to get it on snug enough that it is not leaking.

SCToy

flare wrenches are the optimal tool, you can use the correct size box head wrench in a pinch.
I will just copy this from another forum I am on because I don't feel like explaining it myself. I recently used this method myself and it worked great.



I thought I would give a little as I have been just reading and not really contributing, and seeing as how I just flushed my brake system and it was on my mind. I also posted this on nasioc.com and legacygt.com because it's a non-invasive, easy, and inexpensive way to bleed brakes and hopefully will save a lot of people money in being able to do this themselves.

A little background before I begin because I'm sure that this will cause a stir and that's not my intent. I used to teach braking systems and ABS diagnosis for 4 years. There is a lot of different consensus on how to bleed brakes-pump and hold, vacuum, reverse bleeding, power bleeding. None of them I have read are incorrect however, there is possibility of causing other problems with the system by doing it some of these different ways. Most people don't have a power bleeder at home and with the newer ABS systems, these are not the best method anyway. Besides, usually power bleeders are filled with brake fluid that can be months old and most likely already contaminated and "wet". Vacuum bleeding is an excellent way, but again, most people don't own or have access to a good vacuum machine. A Mityvac is NOT a good vacuum machine although if you are competent with it, you can do vacuum bleeding, but it's not necessary to even use it in this method.

NOTE: Working on brakes should not be attempted unless you feel that you are competent in understanding the following instructions.

We've all been taught the "Pump it up, Hold it, Tell me when it's on the floor, OK, Pump it up again, Hold it again, tell me when it's on the floor", etc. method, and while this does, in fact, work for bleeding the system, it can cause problems that are not immediately apparent. This method pushes your master cylinder into zones that it's not used to being and can cause issues with the seals and cups inside because of corrosion and wear. Sooner or later down the road, and it doesn't always happen, but your master cylinder can fail from grit and corrosion that was loosened when you did your bleed. At that point, you are purchasing an expensive piece, having to do the labor, and then having to do the whole damn thing all over again.

So with that being said, here is the best way to bleed your brakes:

When bleeding your brakes, remember this: Gravity is your friend, unlike around our waistlines (I can attest to THAT fact unfortunately). It's very simple to bleed your brakes, remove the air, and never invade your master cylinder where it shouldn't be invaded.

I have taught this method for over 30 years and have never had a single issue with a system that is in good working order. If there are problems with your vehicle in the ABS controller, proportioning valve, lines, or calipers, then the vehicle needs to be repaired before attempting this method. This will NOT make up for worn parts such as pads, rotors, calipers, master cylinder, booster, etc.

Gravity bleeding is easily done by a single person, but the only downside is that it takes a bit longer to do and you MUST pay attention to your master cylinder and fluid level. Here's how:

Clean the outside of your master cylinder thoroughly around the cap area to make sure no dirt can enter when you remove the cap. Open your master cylinder and remove as much old fluid as you can from the reservoir. I use a turkey baster that I have mounted/glued a piece of curved brake line in the tip so I can reach around through the side slots and get as much fluid out of the bottom reservoir as possible. Make sure you have wet rags around in case you spill some fluid when you are sucking it out. Wipe any spilled fluid up immediately with a wet rag and rinse the rag. Once you have it as empty as possible, fill it with the new fluid of your choice and reinstall the cap. ONLY use a NEW bottle-never one that's been sitting around half full, even if it's only a few months old, and put the cap back on between fills of the master cylinder. Make sure you have enough NEW fluid to completely flush your system-a 32 oz. bottle/can is a good size.

NOTE: NEVER USE DOT 5 SILICONE FLUID-IT IS NOT TO BE USED FOR ABS SYSTEMS. (If you have questions about this, PM me and I'll explain exactly why it doesn't work.)

Jack up the car at all 4 corners and place it on stands (if you have a hoist, even easier). Remove the wheels and break loose each of the bleeder screws and then check them to make sure that they are open and not rusted shut. If they are, use a piece of wire or drill bit to open the center and side holes and then reinsert back into your calipers or wheel cylinders.

NOTE: If you have bleeders that you think are going to break off, there are several methods you can use to loosen them. If you have access to an oxy/acetylene (cutting/welding, not a propane) torch, you can heat the caliper JUST right around the screw, red, not flowing metal red, but just red, and quench them with water. (DO NOT DO THIS WITH ALUMINUM CALIPERS). This will make them come loose easily. If you don't have a torch, soak them in PB for a day before you try to remove them. Find a socket that fits the bleeder but doesn't bottom all the way to the caliper. Put the socket on the screw over the nipple and tap the flat end of the socket lightly several times with a hammer (NOT A BFH-a small hammer) and then try to loosen it. It may take several times of trying and tapping, but be patient. This helps the PB penetrate and also loosens the threads with the shock. (You CAN do THIS with aluminum calipers). Once you have them loose, see above about making sure they are open.

Find some clear 1/4" hose that will fit snugly on the nipple of the bleeder screw long enough to reach from the bleeder down into a container on the floor. Go-kart/atv/dirt bike fuel hose works perfectly. Put the hose over the bleeder screw nipple and place the open end into the container (clear container with graduations it is IDEAL so you can see how much fluid is coming through-a Ratio-Rite cup is perfect) and open the bleeder screw taking care to make sure that the hose stays pointed in the cup. It will take a minute but you will see fluid building up above the bleeder in the hose (only on the rear as the bleeder screws point straight up-the fronts flow quickly without a buildup in the hose) and then it will start to drip into the container. Remove the master cylinder cap and "LET 'ER DRIP" for a while-usually 10 minutes is a good number to use as a beginning but it may take as long as 15. You MUST maintain a constant vigil at your master cylinder to keep it full as it will slowly go down. DO NOT LET IT GET DOWN TO EVEN HALF FULL-JUST PAY ATTENTION AND KEEP THE DAMN THING FULL...LOL. [/u][/b]Keep adding the fluid and once you see about 6 oz. in the clear container, then close the bleeder and move to the left rear. Refill the master cylinder and do exactly the same thing and look for about 6 oz. Move to the right front-6 oz., and the left front-6 oz.

Use just clean water to clean up any mess that you may have made and use a wet rag to wipe down the calipers to make sure that there is no fluid that leaked onto the paint (if they are painted). Put your floating screen back inside of the master cylinder, refill a final time, and install your master cylinder cap.

NOTE: Make SURE to install the master cylinder cap before completing the next step.

Leave the car on the stands and start it and gently push your brake pedal several times. You'll find that the pedal is engaged sooner and firmer.

In approximately an hour, this method will completely flush your entire system and replace all of the fluid with new. Reinstall the wheels, lower the car, check the lug nuts for torque, and then test drive the car. Check the master cylinder a final time after your test drive.

Enjoy ! ! !

CJM

Ive done a similar method by myself where I take a water bottle and hose and fill it with brake fluid so the hose is submerged. Then i pump the pedal about 5x and go check and top off the master. Never has failed me.

8lugnuts

SCToy, I've been told about the slow gravity bleed method and some of my buds have told me they have done it this way. I have never tried it. I have always used the two-man method and it's always worked. CJM, I recently watched a few videos on Youtube showing the jar method. It seems like a good method, only thing is I cannot see the jar while pumping the pedal, but maybe I don't need to see it. One youtuber brushed redish-pink grease around the base threads of the bleeder which he stated formed an air-tight seal to prevent air getting sucked in when it's opened. I've never seen it done this way, never done this way myself and don't plan to.

I will either need to find another set of legs or possibly try the jar method. I'm not sure I have the patience for the slow gravity feed method...yet.

The flare nut wrench was an afterthought. I don't have a set of these yet. I *did* spray the bleeders with Kroil and let it sit overnight, one side was easier than the other but I am pretty confident I will need to replace the fittings & line sections + hoses the next time the calipers need replacing. Hopefully that won't be for additional 130K.

appreciate the feedback guys.

8lugnuts

CJM

If the bleeder wont budge get yourself a torch and a candle. heat up the bleeder and touch the candle to the thread area, will come instantly loose.

I dont use a flare wrench as on the back drums it literally has zero clerance. Just use a 6pt socket on a ratchet or a 12pt boxend of a wrench has never failed me.

As for the jar method, pump a few times and just keep the master full. Only takes maybe 3-5 pumps per side usually.

8lugnuts

I had no problem with the bleeder nuts, I had problems with the brake line fitting nuts at the caliper. I had some trouble loosening one one side and on the other I ended up using channel locks to finish tightening it. But that part is finished: the fittings are on tight, the bleeders are easy to loosen/tighten thanks to Kroil and some delicate elbow grease. brake fluid is flowing free & clear thru all of the calipers.

The problem I am experiencing now is, after bleeding the snot out of all four calipers using my vacuum self-bleeder, doing the furthest 1st, next furthest 2nd, etc., my pedal still slowly goes to the floor when I apply normal pressure, motor running. The pedal is high and rock hard when the motor is off, after I pump and hold it. When I pump it while it's running there is some pressure/firmness but it still slowly goes down and bottoms out when I press & hold it.

SCToy

Usually if the pedal is firm, but goes to the floor if you hold it is due to the master cylinder allowing fluid past the seal.

8lugnuts

There was no trouble with the pedal or stopping the truck before I replaced the calipers. The pass. side front caliper was beginning to stick so I replaced both fronts. If fluid is getting past the seal then where is the fluid going? There are no leaks anywhere that I can see plus the fluid level in the master cylinder is full and has not moved from where I refilled it. I can't smell it either(brake fluid has a pretty strong odor)..

SCToy

If its not leaking out of the connections, then its probably leaking past the seal in the cylinder as you hold it down, when you let off the pedal, it seeps back the other way, so no fluid is actually leaving the system, just not applying maxiumum pressure the the calipers.

8lugnuts

hmmm, never seen that happen before but I guess anything's possible. Funny though how there was nothing wrong with my MC before I replaced the calipers....I'm gonna have to try the jar method this weekend unless I can get one of my nephews to come out here and act as my wingman. If that doesn't work I may have to go for the MC.

helikyler

Thanks for sharing that awesome writeup! Any chance you have the URL of the OP? I'd like to thank that guy for giving his wisdom.

Yotatech is pure gold IMHO!

SCToy

I actually found that on corner carvers. Great tech source, if you think pirate is bad, CC is even worse. Except people actually know what they're talking about haha.
You're welcome though.