Why don't I see much in the way of Diesel 4x4s?
Jun 22, 2008 | 01:10 PM
#21
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 917
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From: Barcelona (Spain)
Well, you're not the only ones with stupid laws... Here in Spain we get diesel 4x4's (The most average are and mine is) but we can't convert gas cars to LPG or diesels to vegoil/WVO...
Only the bus/taxis are allowed to run on LPG.
Biodiesel sold here is max 30% biodiesel and it's the same price than regular diesel because it has subventions, if not it would be more expensive.
There is only one gas station in Barcelona that sells 100% biodiesel. My 4Runner runs flawlessly with 100% biodiesel, it makes a lot less noise, it runs very very soft and has the same power than when using regular diesel.
David
PS: Think that the NA diesel is way poor compared to European diesel too.
Only the bus/taxis are allowed to run on LPG.
Biodiesel sold here is max 30% biodiesel and it's the same price than regular diesel because it has subventions, if not it would be more expensive.
There is only one gas station in Barcelona that sells 100% biodiesel. My 4Runner runs flawlessly with 100% biodiesel, it makes a lot less noise, it runs very very soft and has the same power than when using regular diesel.
David
PS: Think that the NA diesel is way poor compared to European diesel too.
Last edited by Blizzard; Jun 22, 2008 at 01:12 PM.
Jun 23, 2008 | 07:52 AM
#22
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 1
From: Searcy, Arkansas
My buddy in Malta was complaining about $5 a liter (yes, liter) gasoline two or three years ago. He said we were lucky ours was so cheap here in the U.S. but I had to remind him of a couple things, #1 - the United States of America is a HUGE country. #2 - the people of the United States of America aren't all rich like people seem to think & many have to drive anywhere from 40 - 80 miles one way to work; some even more, a lot more.
You add the vastness of our land mass together with the fact that most people here don't make huge salaries & you soon begin to realize fuel prices even a dollar or two more per gallon than they currently are would cripple this country. $10 a gallon gasoline would mean $11 or even $12 a gallon diesel (I won't even get into aviation fuel) & at those prices it'd cost more to ship most goods than the shipment was worth. That would lead to empty grocery store shelves & that would lead to armed rioting because we (U.S. citizens) know we have enough oil here & enough open farm land not to have fuel or food shortages. Once you realize that, you get sort of angry that this artificially high cost is harming you & your family.
People in smaller countries where they have more mass transit or just live closer to where they work can absorb fuel costs better than larger rural countries like Australia, Canada, China, The U.S., Russia etc. My buddy in Malta could ride a bike around his country in the time it would take me to drive to the nearest large city & back. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying countries like Malta or even slightly larger European countries have it easy, these fuel prices are harming everyone, but they have a higher impact on the average citizen in larger more rural countries. And when it reaches the breaking point (if the politicians allow it to) there will be bloodshed. People won't be willing to sit on their hands while their families starve & die from exposure because we can't drill for the oil we know is there or because we can't eat the food we know we're capable of growing.
A guy on Marlins board suggested the govt's start making the futures speculators come up with the full - 100% cost of the contract they want to secure instead of the 3% they currently have to come up with & that might quell some of the run away cost, I say that's a good starting point; then we need to get away from this globalization crap & take care of ourselves. Drill in Anwar, drill off-shore, drill in the mid-west, build nuclear reactors & refineries....so what if it takes five years to see the benefit....at least relief will be coming. We all know earths resources are finite & there will be a day when they are gone, but that day isn't today.
That's my .02 cents ymmv
You add the vastness of our land mass together with the fact that most people here don't make huge salaries & you soon begin to realize fuel prices even a dollar or two more per gallon than they currently are would cripple this country. $10 a gallon gasoline would mean $11 or even $12 a gallon diesel (I won't even get into aviation fuel) & at those prices it'd cost more to ship most goods than the shipment was worth. That would lead to empty grocery store shelves & that would lead to armed rioting because we (U.S. citizens) know we have enough oil here & enough open farm land not to have fuel or food shortages. Once you realize that, you get sort of angry that this artificially high cost is harming you & your family.
People in smaller countries where they have more mass transit or just live closer to where they work can absorb fuel costs better than larger rural countries like Australia, Canada, China, The U.S., Russia etc. My buddy in Malta could ride a bike around his country in the time it would take me to drive to the nearest large city & back. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying countries like Malta or even slightly larger European countries have it easy, these fuel prices are harming everyone, but they have a higher impact on the average citizen in larger more rural countries. And when it reaches the breaking point (if the politicians allow it to) there will be bloodshed. People won't be willing to sit on their hands while their families starve & die from exposure because we can't drill for the oil we know is there or because we can't eat the food we know we're capable of growing.
A guy on Marlins board suggested the govt's start making the futures speculators come up with the full - 100% cost of the contract they want to secure instead of the 3% they currently have to come up with & that might quell some of the run away cost, I say that's a good starting point; then we need to get away from this globalization crap & take care of ourselves. Drill in Anwar, drill off-shore, drill in the mid-west, build nuclear reactors & refineries....so what if it takes five years to see the benefit....at least relief will be coming. We all know earths resources are finite & there will be a day when they are gone, but that day isn't today.
That's my .02 cents ymmv
Last edited by Brenjen; Jun 23, 2008 at 07:55 AM.
Jun 23, 2008 | 08:38 AM
#23
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
No, really, i'm not lieing, here.
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algaculture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algaculture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel
Jun 23, 2008 | 09:36 AM
#25
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,338
Likes: 120
From: Austin, Texas
your right, george does suck the donkey balls.
ha.
but we dont have it too bad, try going to some other country (cant think of a good example) and talk stuff bout the gov't. better be quick on your feet.
anyway, i say we get some vehicles that dont use oil, then it couldnt be so expensive.
but with what saudi said the other day i think we might have some relief coming, all i know is im keeping my fingers crossed.
Just buy the darn gas and make your right foot a little lighter.
ha.
but we dont have it too bad, try going to some other country (cant think of a good example) and talk stuff bout the gov't. better be quick on your feet.
anyway, i say we get some vehicles that dont use oil, then it couldnt be so expensive.
but with what saudi said the other day i think we might have some relief coming, all i know is im keeping my fingers crossed.
Just buy the darn gas and make your right foot a little lighter.
Jun 23, 2008 | 10:10 AM
#26
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: GA
My buddy in Malta was complaining about $5 a liter (yes, liter) gasoline two or three years ago. He said we were lucky ours was so cheap here in the U.S. but I had to remind him of a couple things, #1 - the United States of America is a HUGE country. #2 - the people of the United States of America aren't all rich like people seem to think & many have to drive anywhere from 40 - 80 miles one way to work; some even more, a lot more.
You add the vastness of our land mass together with the fact that most people here don't make huge salaries & you soon begin to realize fuel prices even a dollar or two more per gallon than they currently are would cripple this country. $10 a gallon gasoline would mean $11 or even $12 a gallon diesel (I won't even get into aviation fuel) & at those prices it'd cost more to ship most goods than the shipment was worth. That would lead to empty grocery store shelves & that would lead to armed rioting because we (U.S. citizens) know we have enough oil here & enough open farm land not to have fuel or food shortages. Once you realize that, you get sort of angry that this artificially high cost is harming you & your family.
People in smaller countries where they have more mass transit or just live closer to where they work can absorb fuel costs better than larger rural countries like Australia, Canada, China, The U.S., Russia etc. My buddy in Malta could ride a bike around his country in the time it would take me to drive to the nearest large city & back. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying countries like Malta or even slightly larger European countries have it easy, these fuel prices are harming everyone, but they have a higher impact on the average citizen in larger more rural countries. And when it reaches the breaking point (if the politicians allow it to) there will be bloodshed. People won't be willing to sit on their hands while their families starve & die from exposure because we can't drill for the oil we know is there or because we can't eat the food we know we're capable of growing.
A guy on Marlins board suggested the govt's start making the futures speculators come up with the full - 100% cost of the contract they want to secure instead of the 3% they currently have to come up with & that might quell some of the run away cost, I say that's a good starting point; then we need to get away from this globalization crap & take care of ourselves. Drill in Anwar, drill off-shore, drill in the mid-west, build nuclear reactors & refineries....so what if it takes five years to see the benefit....at least relief will be coming. We all know earths resources are finite & there will be a day when they are gone, but that day isn't today.
That's my .02 cents ymmv
You add the vastness of our land mass together with the fact that most people here don't make huge salaries & you soon begin to realize fuel prices even a dollar or two more per gallon than they currently are would cripple this country. $10 a gallon gasoline would mean $11 or even $12 a gallon diesel (I won't even get into aviation fuel) & at those prices it'd cost more to ship most goods than the shipment was worth. That would lead to empty grocery store shelves & that would lead to armed rioting because we (U.S. citizens) know we have enough oil here & enough open farm land not to have fuel or food shortages. Once you realize that, you get sort of angry that this artificially high cost is harming you & your family.
People in smaller countries where they have more mass transit or just live closer to where they work can absorb fuel costs better than larger rural countries like Australia, Canada, China, The U.S., Russia etc. My buddy in Malta could ride a bike around his country in the time it would take me to drive to the nearest large city & back. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying countries like Malta or even slightly larger European countries have it easy, these fuel prices are harming everyone, but they have a higher impact on the average citizen in larger more rural countries. And when it reaches the breaking point (if the politicians allow it to) there will be bloodshed. People won't be willing to sit on their hands while their families starve & die from exposure because we can't drill for the oil we know is there or because we can't eat the food we know we're capable of growing.
A guy on Marlins board suggested the govt's start making the futures speculators come up with the full - 100% cost of the contract they want to secure instead of the 3% they currently have to come up with & that might quell some of the run away cost, I say that's a good starting point; then we need to get away from this globalization crap & take care of ourselves. Drill in Anwar, drill off-shore, drill in the mid-west, build nuclear reactors & refineries....so what if it takes five years to see the benefit....at least relief will be coming. We all know earths resources are finite & there will be a day when they are gone, but that day isn't today.
That's my .02 cents ymmv
Also, the train was a widely used method of transportation. There are many old train depots near where I live from this time period, and most of these locations created their own small towns. I forget the numbers I heard recently about how many tons of goods you can move with 1 gallon of diesel over a mile's length, but it was substantially more efficient than a transfer truck due to the momentum created.
Granted, having the ability to do what we do now is incredibly convenient compared to the old way, but how much longer will it be determined practical? Here in the U.S., we have developed a false sense of "need" for all kinds of conveniences, but very few things we have are truly neccessities.
Last edited by '884Runner; Jun 23, 2008 at 10:13 AM.
Jun 23, 2008 | 10:34 AM
#27
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
From: Sudbury ON Canada
ETHANOL BAD, BIODIESIL GOOD, Diesil engines produce less total emition and less CO, less HC, but more particulate. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE but in NA (some exceptions up here but most are private imports). WE ARE GETTING SCREWED
Jun 23, 2008 | 11:05 AM
#28
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
offtopic - branjen, people will never resort to violance in this country over gasoline (for many various reasons which i don't want to get into...some of which: government pacifying them, apathy, fear, etc) but mostly b/c what will likely happen is the economy will become more localized (again), ie: grocery stores buying from local vendors direct vs. distributors and the vendors WALKING the produce over. Its a fact, Koss grocery downtown seattle has already teamed up with 6 vendors from pike place market.
Jun 23, 2008 | 12:46 PM
#32
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Jul 17, 2008 | 03:48 PM
#34
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Likes: 1
Bio fuels like ethanol raise the cost of food, and feed for animals. The farmer that makes the raw material raises his costs to make money. Less corn/beans whatever to go around, means less of it for meat animals to eat, so the farmer raises his prices, that he's already raised to deal with high fuel costs. The store raises their prices, so the consumer just ends up paying more. Even if we convert all our farm land to corn just for ethanol, we can't get rid of our dependancy on oil.
Yes I want a diesel too. I think they haven't mainstreamed here because the older passenger car versions were obnoxious. My grandpa and my dad are(were) both big fans of this type motor and I've driven a few. A VW rabbit was a slightly crude vehicle. It rotted away and became to donor for dad's VW diesel pickup that is so tiny my knees touch the dash with the seat all the way back and it barely accellerates on flat land. I think my favorite was the delta88 because it was the quietest running because it wasn't an econo car but it only got 30mpg or so. It seems like a long time ago now that I was driving that car.
Last edited by Moonfish; Jul 17, 2008 at 03:56 PM.
Jul 18, 2008 | 04:35 AM
#35
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
From: Sudbury ON Canada
I don't want to sound like a Wahoo but this is ONE HUG CONSPIRACY. GASERS use more fuel, BIG OIL wants to sell more fuel, NORTH AMERICAN GOV's. GET HUGE MONEY FROM OIL. WE JUST LAY THERE AND TAKE IT!!!! There are but a few things in this life that truely P!$$ MY OFF, and NO DEISEL IN CDN/USA REALLY GETS ME GOING.
Can you imagine if all the mid size trucks and suv's went from 15 to 30 MPG!!!!!! Seems impossable but all you have to do is get a deisel. THEY WOULD LOOSE BILLIONS AND THEY WONT HAVE IT.
Can you imagine if all the mid size trucks and suv's went from 15 to 30 MPG!!!!!! Seems impossable but all you have to do is get a deisel. THEY WOULD LOOSE BILLIONS AND THEY WONT HAVE IT.
Jul 18, 2008 | 12:37 PM
#37
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
From: used to be so. cal. now Indy
i've been watching too much Top Gear recently, here is one interesting episode about driving 800 miles with single tanks of diesel fuel on a bone stock Audi A8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKa90jSvkPs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKa90jSvkPs
Jul 19, 2008 | 10:53 PM
#39
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
i've been watching too much Top Gear recently, here is one interesting episode about driving 800 miles with single tanks of diesel fuel on a bone stock Audi A8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKa90jSvkPs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKa90jSvkPs
Jul 20, 2008 | 12:08 AM
#40
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Why do we let this happen to us? Blueyoda was right when he said its just a conspiracy. at least here in the US, its just YET ANOTHER way for the govt to screw us!
But they arent the only ones in on it. They have teamed up with the auto makers. Barak Obama tries to BS about "raising the fuel efficiency" or wtfe he said, but they stated MONTHS ago that within 4 years, EVERYTHING on the showroom floor in the US will get 50MPG or better. Then this gets us all thinking, "hmm.. if gas goes up, it'd be cheaper just to buy a new car."
They've been doing it for years. They have had the technology for ages to help be more economical, they just refuse to give it to us, at least at a fair price. They knew all about biodiesel 30 years ago, but told no one. They knew you could run your car on strictly french fry grease 30 years ago, but told no one. They knew back in what, the 80's or so, that we could run on nothing more than the power of the sun((HELLOOOO ITS FREEE!!!)).
Not only are they trying to get us to buy that new CRAP that really isnt worth the money they want for it, but they want to phase out all the old stuff that cant quite keep up as far as fuel efficiency goes. They dont like seeing our yotas and and big trucks and older muscle cars, etc. From what I've heard, by 2010 we wont even have SUV's. No "crossovers". NOTHING!
They dont want to drill in Alaska anymore. WHY? "Preservation of the wildlife". NEWSFLASH!!! NOT JACK SQUAT LIVES IN ALASKA!!! Its funny, the largest state in the US has the absolute lowest population by a long shot. Want to save the bears? PUT THEM IN A FREAKING ZOO!!! Want to save the flounder? dont bother, that craps nasty and just ends up at Long John Silvers anyway, right? To any folks from Alaska, no offense, I just feel the state is doing us no good if its not being drilled for oil.
My vote, tell the govt to kiss your @$$ and dont buy into their political BS. keep on truckin w/ your yota and keep tearin up the woods at every opportunity.
Many may disagree with my opinions. Frankly, I DONT CARE! thats why its an opinion. and if you happen to work for the govt and are behind any of their scheming crap, SCREW YOU.
One question though.. how did this thread go from why we dont have diesel yotas in NA to a complete political discussion about gas prices and what not?
Dont get me wrong though. I love my country. Honestly, I dont know if I would live anywhere else. Yeah some countries have hotter women than we do, but so what. The ones we have are doing just fine. Not only do I love my country, I love my freedom. I am thankful everyday to the veterans who have fought in American wars to let me be free. If you dont live here and you love your country, good for you. If you hate your country, come on over.(please make sure you can speak decent english first)
But they arent the only ones in on it. They have teamed up with the auto makers. Barak Obama tries to BS about "raising the fuel efficiency" or wtfe he said, but they stated MONTHS ago that within 4 years, EVERYTHING on the showroom floor in the US will get 50MPG or better. Then this gets us all thinking, "hmm.. if gas goes up, it'd be cheaper just to buy a new car."
They've been doing it for years. They have had the technology for ages to help be more economical, they just refuse to give it to us, at least at a fair price. They knew all about biodiesel 30 years ago, but told no one. They knew you could run your car on strictly french fry grease 30 years ago, but told no one. They knew back in what, the 80's or so, that we could run on nothing more than the power of the sun((HELLOOOO ITS FREEE!!!)).
Not only are they trying to get us to buy that new CRAP that really isnt worth the money they want for it, but they want to phase out all the old stuff that cant quite keep up as far as fuel efficiency goes. They dont like seeing our yotas and and big trucks and older muscle cars, etc. From what I've heard, by 2010 we wont even have SUV's. No "crossovers". NOTHING!
They dont want to drill in Alaska anymore. WHY? "Preservation of the wildlife". NEWSFLASH!!! NOT JACK SQUAT LIVES IN ALASKA!!! Its funny, the largest state in the US has the absolute lowest population by a long shot. Want to save the bears? PUT THEM IN A FREAKING ZOO!!! Want to save the flounder? dont bother, that craps nasty and just ends up at Long John Silvers anyway, right? To any folks from Alaska, no offense, I just feel the state is doing us no good if its not being drilled for oil.
My vote, tell the govt to kiss your @$$ and dont buy into their political BS. keep on truckin w/ your yota and keep tearin up the woods at every opportunity.
Many may disagree with my opinions. Frankly, I DONT CARE! thats why its an opinion. and if you happen to work for the govt and are behind any of their scheming crap, SCREW YOU.
One question though.. how did this thread go from why we dont have diesel yotas in NA to a complete political discussion about gas prices and what not?
Dont get me wrong though. I love my country. Honestly, I dont know if I would live anywhere else. Yeah some countries have hotter women than we do, but so what. The ones we have are doing just fine. Not only do I love my country, I love my freedom. I am thankful everyday to the veterans who have fought in American wars to let me be free. If you dont live here and you love your country, good for you. If you hate your country, come on over.(please make sure you can speak decent english first)
Last edited by FlatLandWheelin; Jul 20, 2008 at 12:15 AM.
