BluYot

Hi all, I realize this is a very subjective question and is largely dependent on rig setup, driver, and conditions but I want to get a general sense of your experience with your 4Runner or pickups in variable snow conditions offroad. Here's my scenario.

I'm in Ontario, Canada where there is a significant amount of snowfall throughout the winter and we've got a cabin with an unmaintained gravel/dirt road during these cold months. My primary concern is the steep grades (50%+in some sections) longest run about 200 yds and the width of road (in the summer you hope no one else is driving the opposite direction and if so someone is backing up). It's about a mile drive in so nothing too long but I'd like to drive all of our gear in with our 2012 4Runner SR5. Also, road is used occasionally by snowmobiles so the snow can get packed down, sometimes to the point it becomes like ice...and then it snows over that etc.

4Runner is stock but we've got great winter tires (Yokohama I/T GO72) and they've performed amazingly well in deeper snow but primarily roads only. We drove in to the cabin last spring where only the low lying portions had about a foot and a half of granular slush snow and it was fine with the tires aired down to 15psi.

I'm also tempted to get chains (front or back) in the instance the tires reach that hardpack and the truck wants to slide off into the bush. I also don't have a winch (yet) and only a highlift jack that would make for a tedious recovery operation.

What is your experience wheeling in snow with the conditions described above? Should I be able to put it in 4x4 and power up those hills and through this stuff with confidence (wife anxiously watching)? Please share your experience and any advice is much appreciated!

Yotard

Do you have the rear e locker?

BluYot

No rear locker. Someone told me that lockers in snow are no good...that statement doesn't make sense to me though. Perhaps they were thinking on road which would make sense. I would think a locker would help in snow (in an offroad/trail scenario) because with no locker as soon as that one wheel in the rear loses traction, power would keep going to it...regardless if snow, mud, steep rocky climb etc.

Yotard

I had never heard of that until this forum about lockers being no good I the snow. I have been driving in the tahoe snow on and off road in the snow for over 10 years now and all of my Chevy trucks have had limited slip rear axles and I never once had a problem spinning out or getting stuck. You can't do donuts with an open diff! I took my 4Runner up there with open diffs and couldn't make it down the road to my cabin which is a gravel road that doesn't get plowed in the winter. I locked my differentials just because of that and now I don't have trouble. You have to go easy on the gas in icy turns but they are perfectly safe.

Yotard

I always carry chains though because tires just don't grip on ice and 4x4 doesn't help with braking.

MB4runner

Whoever said lockers were bad in snow probably meant for sideways traction... Like if the road is sloped to the side and you spin both rear tires on snow/ice your rear end will just slide right out.

toastyjosh

iTrader: (1)

yotas are great in the snow! It all comes down to tires and knowing your abilitys.

Tires are a tough choice, I have rocked swampers, BFG ATs, and MTs in the snow and while Mud tires do great in the snow, they suck on ice and icey hard pack.
I have a set for duratracks now and there really good in everything.

I like bigger tires in the snow, for clearence, but it's a little harder to spin.

Tire pressure, get some of the quick deflaters, keep em in the truck. When stuff gets crazy, air them down.

Winch, yes get a winch and a bumper. Winch to pull you out an a bumper in case you slide in to a snowbank.

Hold off on lockers, A LSD would be good for snow. If you can only do one do the front.

Keep a shovel, tow straps, sleeping bag, candle, and some food in a bag in your car just in case.

Driving skill is a large part of it. Push your truck to the limits in the snow, when your with friends in a semi safe area to see what she will do.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

You pretty much nailed it so many different things can effect snow driving .

plan on getting stuck plan on having damage to the body

How bad it can be from just being a pain to this is going to be expensive!!!

Once your high centered your going to be doing a lot of shoveling you might move 10' and do it all again .

Then it does matter how much you mean by lots of snow to me that means any amount under a foot is not worth mentioning over night.

Your talking several feet by the end of January ??

Plan to have enough food to stay long enough to get rescued

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

i have front and rear aussie lockers. Front locker tends to pull straight even with the wheels turned in the snow.
Having a selectable up front is better, hopefully I will have an ARB or E-locker upfront some day.

I disagree with the if you only have one locker put it up front theory (also for the above mentioned pulling straight when turned with a locked front end)
When I was stationed in alaska for 4 years my old 84 did awesome with a rear detroit locker and a set of BFG AT's. I had chains for all for wheels but probably only used the scenario 2x's. Lived in up state NY for 5 years (lots of lake effect snow coming off Lake Erie and Lake Ontario), rear locker did the trick. Though you do need to be prepared for some fish tailing.

Ideally selectable lockers F/R is my goal, just have to get my accountant(aka: the missus) to approve the big upfront cost.

peabody

iTrader: (1)

I find the difference in capability between an unladen open rear diff and one weighted down with firewood to be significant for these different snow conditions and on unusual grade back roads. Once, the poor mans' locker trick-partially applied e-brake-got me unstuck from an off-level, slushy spot with no weight in back.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Gotta love Watertown in the winter.

Good old Lake effect snow.

Perhaps getting older makes me look at things different

I still enjoy the snow and cold weather but being stuck in 50 below is no longer my idea of fun.

Then there is the old trick of taking it out of 4 wd for going down hill in the snow pack learned that the hard way

I would not be able to handle a automatic trans in the snow.

BluYot

Thanks for all your responses so far.

@wyoming: January typically there is a couple feet on the ground of fresh if not tracked over by sleds.

I should mention that the 4Runner does have A-TRAC and from what I've read does an okay job in slippery situations although I haven't had the chance to really use it for an extended period of time. I read on other forums the argument where if you have A-TRAC it makes lockers redundant but acts more like an LSD. The "issue" with A-TRAC is that you can't pin it...or you can but it won't engage, whereas with a locker you can get on the gas and power through without power cutting out. I tend not to have a heavy foot anyway but am curious to see if anyone solely relies on A-TRAC in these situations.

toastyjosh

iTrader: (1)

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...uestion-2.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...r-than-4l.html

the_supernerd

Here is my $.02:

I live where we get a least a foot or so of snow a few times per year, and have gotten around two feet on numerous occasions. I does not get super cold here compared to some parts of the country, so the snow is usually wet and dense. My road is dirt and some parts are steep enough to cause some problems in deep snow. My '87 Toyota with stock tires and open diffs has always been able to get in and out. One year we had two feet of snow that was so packed I could almost walk on top of it. It was about the limit for that truck and was more snow-wheeling at that point, but mainly because I was just plowing brick-like snow.

I have not had a chance to drive my '05 Tacoma in significant amounts of snow yet because of the drought. I would be hesitant to drive it in those same conditions as my '87 Toyota mainly because of the plastic bumper in the front. It seems to hang low enough to hit deep snow, and I could see it breaking if the snow is packed and dense. That might be something to consider in your 4Runner, but an ARB bumper would be a quick fix. In the packed frozen snow on the paved roads it seemed to do fine.

Another experience of mine that might help with the locker discussion is when I had an '88 S10 Blazer with the factory gov-lock rear end. It would fully lock automatically, but took a fair amount of slipping before it would do so. I remember going up a fairly steep part of my road in the snow, where I usually have to get a run at it and start slinging snow to make it. I was making it fine and tracking straight, then the gov-lock decided to lock and I immediately started to go sideways. I am sure it would have been better if I could have selected to lock it from the start or just leave it unlocked. I would think something like a Torsen limited slip would probably be good for snow as it would not fully lock the diff, but I have no personal experience with that.

I have never driven anything with electronic traction controls, like A-TRAC, in deep snow, but I could see it getting in the way when you just need a heavy foot to get up the hill. I could, however, see it helping a lot in light snow or slippery road conditions when you start to slip some and just need a small boost.

Roark

About the front lock vs rear lock only, I've heard front lock only can almost inhibit driving on ice. Not sure about strictly snow, though.

The rear locker on my friend's 99 Runner has kept him out of stuff that's gotten me stuck, but it's also made him stuck way worse than I've ever been.

BluYot

Thanks again for the input/experiences.

Nice thing about A-TRAC is it can be turned off if I don't want any electronic intervention. In the spring driving the shorter run in about 1 1/2 feet of slushy spring snow I actually forgot to engage the A-TRAC and just had it in 4-LO. I eased through it no problems. Mind you this was a fairly level stretch before a big climb with only patches of snow.

After doing a bit more research, it looks like having both a selectable locker and A-TRAC are the best of both worlds. I'd probably opt to put the locker in the rear so as not to impede steering (from what I've read).

I suppose at this point a winch and chains (for hardpack exposed or concealed beneath snow) would be the next wise choice before spending money on a locker I might not NEED. I haven't nearly pushed the limits of A-TRAC and that might be sufficient.

Otherwise I have quite a bit of confidence in the Yokohama GO72's...especially aired down. They are ridiculous in snow, have substantial tread depth and spacing, and are siped like crazy. But I realize there are limitations to just relying on tires to get through certain conditions.

Anyway, keep the suggestions and input coming! Much appreciated.

MistaMota

So Bluyot how is the winter turning out for you?
problems getting to the cabin??

I live just north or saskatoon(saskatchewan) and we always get a cold harsh winter with lots of snow (this year being an exception) my tires are Toyo Open country MT's 275/85r16 and i haven't had much problem driving into my farm or thru the fields checking on fences. the rear e-locker does help out greatly when the going gets tough. but overall the 4runners do great in snow and mud / loose dirt conditions

justdifferentials

Did you ever decide to go with a rear locker? Putting something like an ARB Air Locker in would be great, and then you would have on board air for when you decide to air down in the snow. For deep snow I am a HUGE fan of airing down to single digit PSI's, then locking both the front and rear differentials. This setup will get you very far in the deep stuff. Enjoy!