So I just got back from a year in Mexico and my suspension is in need of repair. My friend recommended a local shop and I took it in for free diagnostics.

Below is the quote for my 1990 4Runner with 4x4, what do ya think?


Lower Ball Joints: Total $209 (Labor: $184, Parts: $25)
Upper Ball Joints: Total $269 (Labor: $213, Parts: $56)

Shocks Front: Total $180 (Labor: $96, Parts: $84)
Shocks Rear: Total $178 (Labor: $96, Prats: $87)

TOTAL: $836

Just trying to see if this is reasonable or not. I have never done any suspension work, and not sure how difficult this would be to take on myself. I have the money right now to put into my truck, and I am about to head out for a month of driving across the southwest, so this seems like the right time to get things done. I was thinking about offering cash, and asking for a bit of a discount.

 

im sure you could do some of it yourself, especially the shocks. that would save you a good bit of money...

im not sure what their labor rate an hour is but i would think they could change out the shocks for alot less that 200$ in labor

 

I would do it myself and save $500. Or buy some beers and liquor and have a buddy do it, they are always cheap labor.

 

So after I posted the thread, i have spent the better part of an hour reading various threads on shock kits etc. I think I am going to have him do the ball joints, and then I am going to head over to my buddy's place and do the shocks in his garage.

Now, suggestions? Old Man Emu seems to be a favorite. I am not looking for anything crazy, but a little bit of a lift would be nice. also, I have 33in tires and they rub on tight turns, what's the good word on spacers?

 

To cure the rubbing:
Take off the inner fender and pound down the seam weld where it rubs. Take your favourite adhesive and glue the inner fender back into place (may require trimming).
As far as ball joints and shocks.
Rear shocks is literally two bolts per shock. It will take you all of 5 minutes per shock. That's it.
If you can change a tire that's 3 times the work to change the rear shocks.

 

oh lord...

1st off, if you were my friend, we'd do all that at my garage... You'd only be out parts.

2nd... I'd ONLY use Toyota or Moog joints... Pretty sure the Moog's are Japan units... WhatEVER you do, ONLY USE MADE IN JAPAN PARTS!!!! OEM if you can... read, for quality control.

3rd... If you greased those joints regularly, I have trouble thinking they even need to be replaced... Those TBar IFS's are AWESOME.

4th, The good word on the BJ spacers is... search I can't post all the good words said of them.

5th pretty sure the OME is only bars and lower bump stops anyway... The spring rate is the only reason you can roll those bars up, which is the ONLY way that kit provides lift. If the stock bars are fine for you, I'd start at the MUCH cheaper BJ spacers...

OME; Higher ride height by whatever's "cranked in", and travel improved ONLY by what the difference in bumpstops is.

4Crawler BJ spacers; ride height improved by what you get, compression travel improved by what you get...

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...acer.shtml#FAQ

Then it's up to you but you can do rear FJ80 coils (I got mine fo free!) to soften your rear up and lift it to match the front...

Or coil spacers... Whichever you prefer...

 

PS, you need idler arm bushings too... (Cheap, fast and easy)

(w/o looking at it, it MAY also be the source for ALL your problems anyway)


Must read link! And DO NOT use the faux "Heavy Duty" 555 brand idler arm.

The OEM idler arm is better... And all you need is the bushings anyway.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/idler/

 

um why is this shop trying to charge you labor to put those front shocks in when the shocks have to come out anyway to do the ball joints?

 

I would be very skeptable of those ball joints they are quoting you. That is way to low of a price for them to be any good. Ball joints is a place you don't want to skimp on. Usually OEM ball joints go for around $60-$70 a piece and they are quoting you less than that for a pair

 

1st...yeah my buddy has a garage, and only Sunday to work on the truck, perhaps we will go for the whole thing.

2nd. Noted on the japan made parts.

3rd. the joints had not been regularly greased. The mechanic said that when squeezed they shouldn't be able to compress by hand, and there was definitely give.

4th. I took a look at the link, and I am thinking about:

1 Pair 2"/50mm Coil Spring Spacers and
1 Pair 1.5"/38mm Ball Joint Spacers
- $179.00/set
(i think i will just go for the spacers, since looking to do this sooner than later, and not sure if i have time to dig fro some fj80 springs).

What do you all say for shocks?

 

$25 for for ball joints? Not sure I'd want to riding on those, seems to cheap.

 

Alright, lets take this back to square ONE...


How many miles are on this 4Runner? And have the ball joints ever been done before?

Is there ANY shaking or shimming while this thing is going down the road?

Are the tires wearing evenly across the tread like they should?

I don't buy the "give" thing... Worn joints will have play in them, not too much grease, or enough to "give".

The joints upper and lower control arm "ball" joints are bolt on items... Definitely get an alignment if you mess with the steering, though I'd say you've only got a 10% chance of actually NEEDING an alignment after you swap the BJ's. But it is something you should really do anyway...

But truthfully, if you were in a survival situation, or in the Australian Outback,,, I'd say you can get away without it...


IF it pulls to one side, and IF you replace the steering "ball" joints that is an insta-alignment...


Grease those joints!

 

Grab the tire at 12:00 and push in (towards the motor) and pull out as hard as you can.

Any play is most likely the control arm ball joints, worn spindle bushings or bearings.


Grabbing the tire at 9:00 and 3:00 and pushing the tire left and right as hard as possible...

Any play is most likely in the steering joints, steering box or the idler arm.


You're changing your planes, ya dig?

Anything in question, THAT''s what you ask the guy in the shop or a friend about...

 

Ok, so I got 183,569mi on what appears to be the original suspension (shocks, ball joints and all).

The tires are wearing evenly, I had them rotated and balanced before I left for Mexico last year. The car drives straight, with a little play in the steering. Slight shimmy and shake at high speeds, but not much--definitely not pulling one way or another.

Definitely going to get an alignment after this is said and done.

After this replacement, I will definitely keep the joints greased.

If I go for the previously mentioned set from 4crawler, any recs on what shocks to throw in?

 

Weights can fall off tires, and tires can develop grooves (or a "chop", a wave like pattern across the tread) that can mess with the original balance...

Getting the tires rebalanced may solve your "shimmy and shake at high speeds" problems.

Troubleshooting 101: It seems to me any wear in the joints and it'd have a shimmy and shake at ALL speeds.

I'm trying to dance around telling you, you may not need an alignment, or ball joints... But I am not telling you not to.


Can't speak for the shocks...

 

Ok, since were dancing here, what if I did this:

Went for four new shocks, idler arm bushings, BJ and coil spring raisers, and a tire balance, and see where I am at?

I am thinking of getting the shocks and idler arm bushings straight from toyota and grabbing the 4crawler package for the raisers.

 

Check it hard for play and do the balance 1st.

You want to narrow down and isolate any problems, and make sure you're not adding to the problems...

Fixing the basics one at a time and you'll know if you've fixed a problem, or need to get it fixed.

The reason I say do that 1st is mainly b/c the BJ spacers are an insta-alignment.


And you'll be right there anyway to check the upper control arm joints when you're putting the spacers on anyway...

It'll be right there in your hand to inspect.


And idler arm bushings from Toyota, yes. Shocks... I don't think so.

Via 4Crawler...

" Will longer shocks be required?
Quite possibly, yes. The best option is to measure the compressed and extended shock lengths needed for the spacers once they are installed. Then order a shock that meets those needs. Here is a table of some common longer shocks that may be suitable. And here is a link to a good article on how to determine proper shock absorber lengths on a given vehicle. Then use those dimensions to order shocks from a company that lists shocks by length, for example Rancho is one such company. Or many shock companies list shocks by "lift", so you could order a shock for the approximate amount of lift you have, so perhaps a 0"-2" lift shock, for example."

 

So I am going to do the work myself this Sunday. I have ordered the Idler arm bushings from Toyota, got 4 new Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks off partsgeek.com for $69/ea., and 4 new Sankei 555 ball joints. With all parts, and tools I am currently just shy of $600--if all goes well, I will be saving myself about $230 and gaining a whole bunch of knowledge, frustration, and hopefully in the end, satisfaction

Questions I have going into this, and I have been reading endless threads here on yotatech and other forums:

1) I have a pickle fork, do I need to rent a puller and press from Kragen?When I went to Kragen, they had a ball joint press and a pitman and pitman/tie rod puller for rent, and they were all for rent separately, not in a set---nothing labeled as a ball joint puller.

2) The sankei 555 ball joints, both lower and upper, have these tiny relief nipples on the side, why? In all the threads I have looked at, these are never mentioned.

3) Aside from the new parts, I got my socket set, vice grips, cheater bar, jack stands, floor jack, parts cleaner, possibly renting the puller and press tomorrow (I'll see what you all say), grease gun and grease, my computer with various DIY Ball joint threads at the ready, address of closest auto parts store to my friend's house, camera to document each step, beer, a friend, a garage, and all day on the holy sabbath. Am I missing anything crucial?

Thanks again for any feedback, you all are so awesome for inspiring newbies, such as myself, to get under the hood and do stuff for ourselves.

 

Final question? you have been given some damn good advice on how tho check bell joints, you just went ahead and bought them anyway. It takes longer to jack the truck up than it does to check the ball joints. Sounds like you just want to spend time and money.
You didnt listen about getting the tire rebalanced, that should be done from time to time along with rotating(5000 miles rotate)All the above advice above about troubleshooting was right on before you start parts slinging...oh well
Advice: If it aint broke dont mess with it.
BTW: squeezing a grease boot on any joint to tell if its wore out is BS.
Enjoy replacing parts you prolly didnt need to cause you dodnt listen to previous advice

 

Well i did listen to advice: I had Toyota in Mexico, look at my front end, and they are the ones who initially recommended having the ball joints and shocks replaced. I had previous work done there, and a friend that worked there, and I found them to be honest a reputable--however I didn't have the funds at the time. Also, I shook the car at 12:00 and I did have movement, which according to tried4x2signN, was a sign of ball joint and bushing wear. I probably could have gotten the car balanced to further check things out, but to be honest, I think the 20 year old original stock front end, and a year on the roads in Mexico, whether in need now or not, is in need of being replaced sooner than later. Currently I have the cash, the time, and the desire to step up to the challenge and reward of working on my own vehicle.

I'm no expert man, but I will just write your condescension off as a keyboard junky with mala onda, and push forth. Thanks though.