DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

I agree with that, but also you installed a drop bracket lift. They dont give you ANY extra wheel travel, and only allow 2-3" larger tires, so i think its a bit of a waste of money. Im not saying everyone has to do a SAS, but here is my opinion::If you are going to haver a look pretty highwy truck, then get the drop bracket lift. If you are going to do some wheeling, spend the little extra cash and get a Downey or Chaos Fab lift, and if you are hardcore wheeling, do a SAS.
OLY: your lift may be good for your purpose, but how long until you break one of those spacers? My main concern with those drop bracket lifts is that you dont get any more travle in the suspension, and those kits have weak poibts that I dont want to worry about when Im on the trail.

oly884

DeathCougar: I'm not sure when one will break. When it does if I have enought money I'm going for total chaos. The only problem is, I spent around 1500 for lift and tires, and I installed it myself. The total chaos I "might" be able to do. The arms yes, the new axle shaft, I'm not sure. anyways those things are a bunch of money. It's around 1,500 to 2,000 just for the lift! I want to do this and get the porsche 930 CV joints and it'll be unstopable!

04 Rocko Taco

Alright, out of curiosity, just because you guys are discussing all this here. What about a Coilover lift, on a 2WD prerunner. Mostly a street queen, but she does see time in the dirt, mostly just muddy fireroads, and mountain trails. No big rocks, no cliff scaling, or anything like that. I' going to do a 3.5 inch Fabtech Coilover Lift, in the front, with add-a-leafs in the rear. Running 305/70/R16 (thats 32.8 inches, by 12 inches) BFG Mud Terrains. Like I said, mostly just a mall crawler, but some off road duty, you guys think it'll run decent? And should I look into putting a locker in the rear for those occasional bigger mud holes?

Tacoma Dude

The coilover is overkill IMO. I've got 3" Cornfed spacers up front and they've been just fine for the limited amount of dirt my truck has seen. The muds are only going to help if you get the rear locker - I was a little disappointed at the lack of traction on my last set of BFG muds. I have the ATs now and they're much better.

tc

Oh more people jumping on the "if you wheel,you gotta SAS" bandwagon... I have seen people clear hairy obstacles with IFS that the SFA rigs had serious trouble with. It's 90% driver, 10% rig, and locked/locked IFS is plenty capable for 99% of the people out there.

If you are running trails that require SAS, do you really want to take a full bodied truck/SUV (let alone a DD) on them? Or do you really need a tube buggy?

Wheel whatcha got.

Tanto

If you've ever seen a stock '86 4Runner make it up a trail that most run with lockers and use with no body damage, you will wholeheartedly echo tc's comment on the 90% driver thing. The tundra lift and 33" tires on my truck have been a huge difference.

Unless you're looking to convert your truck to a true trail-rig, IFS is the best for a DD.

'04 Rocko Taco - www.wheelersoffroad.com has a great deal on a donahoe racing coilover and camburg/TC upper control arm that may be just what you're looking for and DR makes really really good stuff.

WATRD

As long as this thread was resurrected from the dead...

While I agree with the "Wheel what you brung" attitude, I have to laugh at the "It's 90% driver, 10% rig" saying coming from IFS owners. hahahhahaha

Having wheeled the same truck, on the same trail with both IFS and SA, for wheeling, SA wins hands down on everything but the sand. On road, when properly set up, SA runs almost as well as IFS.

Anyone who thinks an IFS can follow anywhere a SA can go is either inexperienced or thinks that risking life and limb and serious breakage is just an average day on the trail.

I am not badmouthing the IFS rigs or drivers, but to put the average IFS in the same bucket with the average SA is silly. They are different beasts and for most wheeling, the average SA is stronger, more flexible, more reliable and safer.

AxleIke

Gonna have to agree with Rob here. The part that TC is on to, is that most drivers do not need a swap. The IFS is fine for them. But still, the age old argument of "my stock IFS 29 inch tired 4runner followed a tube buggy up this one trail" is just downright silly. I can follow a tube buggy down a dirt road in a corolla, doesn't mean a corolla will wheel just as well as a buggy.

A sas is nessesary when either one of two things happens. First, you break your IFS all the time, and you are going up as difficult trails as you can possibly do while you are breaking it.

Second is that you have a ton of money and some spare time, and you want a project to do.

As for on road, go drive a jeep GC thats 4 or 5 years old. Tell me that doesn't ride better than a torsion bar IFS.

Tanto

If you pick horrible lines, it kinda doesn't matter if you have a SA or IFS.

I agree with everything else you've said, Rob. SA can do a lot more than IFS as far as crawling goes.

tc

Rob - you are correct, SFA is more capable than IFS off road - and more capable than 99.999% of the drivers out there need. AxleIke summed it up for me perfectly.

Just saying that a lot of people would be better off spending their money on something else - namely gas for 'wheeling!

04 Rocko Taco

Wheel whatcha got. Some of us have to DD our trucks too. IFS for me.

WATRD

That's another sentiment that makes me scratch my head. I am curious, what does that have to do with it?

My rig is my daily driver and I don't see that I lost any significant road manners/comfort during the swap. It's got a bit more body roll now, but it's about the same as when I had the sway bar off the IFS. If it bugged me, I could put in a sway bar and it would be on par with the IFS.

Strap22

The IFS may not be able to do some of the things a SAS can but I have wheeled mine all over the place and have only broke one inner axle. The early 90-91 runners had a smaller inner axle shaft which became the weak link and snapped. The replacement shaft was much larger and I do expect to snap CV's. That is just part of the game. I'll keep my IFS and be happy with more money in my pocket. I am locked both front and rear and have done all the trails I cared to. To SAS or not is like a smoking debate. Everyone has an opinion.

BruceTS

LOL, very old thread

Rob is right, for crawling SAS is best, but there have been several ocassions that the driver of a SAS Toy couldn't negotiate the same offroad course that I went up. Each time the same problem occured, their front diff hung them up, where I simply slid over the obstacle. The most recent, a guy broke an inner LF axle and outer RF birfield. Driver skill is most important, but having a well equipped rig does make it easier. The line you take with IFS is different than with a SFA. What I see happening more and more is people who have done a SAS, have the need to attempt harder lines, otherwise they get bored and in many cases a rollover eventually occurs. All I can say is my IFS wasn't the reason why I couldn't make an obstacle, but lack of breakover clearance, besides anybody who claims their SAS'ed rig handles as well as a IFS rig is welcome to try and keep up with me blasting across the Dezert at a 100mph. Learn the limits of your rig, stay within them and enjoy the offroad, then decide what mods you need for your driving style.

Ditchpig

Meh, I just know that I'd take a SA rig over an IFS everyday. IFS is just the "Soccer-moming" of the 4x4 Industry. Look at the new FJ, IFS!! And so far I've only seen Female Urbanites driving them. I doubt they are concerned about real 4x4 capabilities, and only concerned that they look cool while going for their Starbucks Coffee on a snowy day. It's just taking a 4x4 and making it drive and handle like a car, wouldn't want a bumpy ride and spill the java in our lap!!

Strap22

This debate can go on forever. The fact is there are different 4x4 setups depending on what they are designed for. I wouldn't say IFS is just for "Urbanites". The new FJ Cruiser is actually a very nice 4x4. It does have a few weak links but those have been identified and changes are already being made. Not everyone uses their 4x4's to Rock Crawl. For the average Joe/Jane an IFS setup gives them the best of both. Good offroad capabilities and excellent street use. As far as I am concerned I would rather have IFS just for that reason. When you drive to as many events as we do, it is nice to have good street manners and be able to do 3's and 4's on the trail and still drive home. The only trailer I want to pull is a for my gear and tent. I do agree a lot of these newer 4x4's are being bought by Urbanites but so were the Gen2,3,and 4th 4Runners and FJ80's,100's. Thank god someone else bought them first so we could buy them at a decent price. And you can always SAS it later. Just my opinion. It don't mean crap.......

deathrunner

Trying to explain IFS to the SA crowd is like trying to propose scientific theory to a closed minded christian. No matter how much sense it makes to you, they'll never open thier mind enough to try and see a new perspective.

Basketball shoes make ok running shoes, and football cleats make ok golf shoes. That's not thier intended purpose, but it works ok. IFS is sorta like that.

If you need anymore analogies, I'll be here all day.

Mikestang

Is the H1 a soccer mom rig? It's got 4-wheel independant...

Strap22

PRICELESS..........

deathrunner

Depends on whos' driving it, I guess. What criteria makes it a soccer mom rig?