why do fram filters suck
Nov 2, 2007 | 06:30 AM
#21
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 636
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From: Montrose, CO
Anyone know who makes the Toyota "factory" oil filters for Toyota?
I quit buying them when they were no longer made in Japan. The new ones seem completely average in quality to me.
I use Amsoil products in anything I own.
I lease my Tundra and have no problems with the $10 fram filters. If you are changing your oil often enough and using a high quality oil (Mobil 1 syn in the Tundra) the filter doesn't matter much.
Every manufacturer has low end and high end filters. Use what you can afford. The best thing about a Toyota is that even with minimal to poor maintenance efforts, they will still run longer than most people care to own a vehicle.
I quit buying them when they were no longer made in Japan. The new ones seem completely average in quality to me.
I use Amsoil products in anything I own.
I lease my Tundra and have no problems with the $10 fram filters. If you are changing your oil often enough and using a high quality oil (Mobil 1 syn in the Tundra) the filter doesn't matter much.
Every manufacturer has low end and high end filters. Use what you can afford. The best thing about a Toyota is that even with minimal to poor maintenance efforts, they will still run longer than most people care to own a vehicle.
Nov 2, 2007 | 07:38 AM
#22
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,342
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Nov 2, 2007 | 08:58 AM
#23
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Downeast, ME
um its basically all over the place. reading, research, engineering classes, rebuilding & repairing everything from lawnmowers, to auto engines, to marine diesels (big & small) and everything else.
basically my major gripe with fram is the antidrainback as stated above. I personally like my top end to get oil as fast as possible when i start it up. you're welcome to do whatever you want, but the antidrainback valves are well known to be of poor quality on the low end frams.
coming from the larger marine diesel end i tend to put more emphasis on filtration than most automakers. In a ship we don't do oil changes because of the sheer volume of oil in the engines.
I figure if I have the option between similar filters at similar prices, and the one has a better antidrainback why not use that one? the cheapo purolators & cheapo frams are both around $4. I'm not one of the guys who goes out and spends $12 on an oil filter, but I figure for the same price why risk it?
basically my major gripe with fram is the antidrainback as stated above. I personally like my top end to get oil as fast as possible when i start it up. you're welcome to do whatever you want, but the antidrainback valves are well known to be of poor quality on the low end frams.
coming from the larger marine diesel end i tend to put more emphasis on filtration than most automakers. In a ship we don't do oil changes because of the sheer volume of oil in the engines.
I figure if I have the option between similar filters at similar prices, and the one has a better antidrainback why not use that one? the cheapo purolators & cheapo frams are both around $4. I'm not one of the guys who goes out and spends $12 on an oil filter, but I figure for the same price why risk it?
Nov 2, 2007 | 09:09 AM
#24
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: San Francisco
Yeah, there's an anti-drainback valve in the Toyota filters. I think there is one in the Mobil 1 filters as well. I just prefer to use the stock Toyota filters 'cause they're $3.50 from my local dealer, and I really like the local dealer.
Nov 2, 2007 | 09:35 AM
#26
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Alex, I can respect that response. My problem is that there is a lot of bs on the internet regarding oil, filters, and just about everything else. That is why I was curious to see what your firsthand experiences are/were.
I'm not here to defend Fram or any filter for that matter. I've mic'ed out all wearable parts on numerous 150k+ mile engines running dino oil and Fram filters and in more than one case they were all within manufacturers allowable wear spec. As previously stated, I have never experienced catastrophic failure due to lubrication, nor any case close to it.
And for the record, my professional background is aviation maintenance, where tolerances are extremely critical. My first auto engine rebuild was around the age of 14.
My purpose is to address the thread title as to why Fram filters "suck". Seems like that is definitely the internet train to be on... but I never had a problem with 'em.
I'm not here to defend Fram or any filter for that matter. I've mic'ed out all wearable parts on numerous 150k+ mile engines running dino oil and Fram filters and in more than one case they were all within manufacturers allowable wear spec. As previously stated, I have never experienced catastrophic failure due to lubrication, nor any case close to it.
And for the record, my professional background is aviation maintenance, where tolerances are extremely critical. My first auto engine rebuild was around the age of 14.
My purpose is to address the thread title as to why Fram filters "suck". Seems like that is definitely the internet train to be on... but I never had a problem with 'em.
Nov 2, 2007 | 02:39 PM
#27
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,801
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From: milwaukee, WI baby muddin in the streets!!
im not reading the rest of this cause its pointless to even though he did ask what to use dont mean that frams really suck im not saying if i use them imjust says to each is own thats that!!! dont like it who cares buy something else to me a filter is a filter and in my opion k&n's suck!!! flat out you ever take one apart it has the same insides as a cheapo and yet like 4 times more just try it youll see
Nov 2, 2007 | 02:55 PM
#28
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,211
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From: I'm an Ohio boy!
I flip=flop between STP and Fram, and neither have caused me problems. But, after talking to a buddy that auto-crosses an ae86 Corolla, he pretty much talked me into using Toyota filters. With my employee parts discount, its worth it for me to at least try one.
Nov 2, 2007 | 04:00 PM
#32
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Gee, I have used Fram most of my life and no issues that I could tag to Fram. Personally, I think the cheap "o" scumbags that do not take care of their engines use the cheapest filter on the market (Fram) and ditto for their oil and then change the oil when they fill like it. So, the Fram gets a bum rap trying to do an impossible job.
My $0.02...and I don't care if Fram stays in business or not....
My $0.02...and I don't care if Fram stays in business or not....
Nov 2, 2007 | 04:31 PM
#33
Gee, I have used Fram most of my life and no issues that I could tag to Fram. Personally, I think the cheap "o" scumbags that do not take care of their engines use the cheapest filter on the market (Fram) and ditto for their oil and then change the oil when they fill like it. So, the Fram gets a bum rap trying to do an impossible job.
My $0.02...and I don't care if Fram stays in business or not....
My $0.02...and I don't care if Fram stays in business or not....
Nov 2, 2007 | 04:40 PM
#34
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 49
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From: Georgia
Here is the true story on why Fram Filters Suck!!!
A friend of mine has an aunt whose cousin's daughter is an E.R. nurse at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. One day about ten years ago Richard Gere was brought in for an emergency and this nurse that I speak of was working that day. I forget what the emergency was, he lost something somewhere... but that's not the point. Richard Gere mentioned that he was getting ready to do a movie, in which he played "whistle blower" employee who was killed at the Fram Company.
The Fram Company had developed a new silicon based compound for filter elements that was going to revolutionize the filter industry. They had produced hundreds of thousands of these new filters with the silicon elements, but they were in such a hurry to get them to store shelves, they had not done any research and development. It turned out, that when the silicon elements come into contact with petroleum based products, the elements turn to sand, and will destroy your engine after about 500,000 miles.
Every employee at the Fram Company agreed to never let this secret out, except for one employee, who refused to sign the non-disclosure agreement. This employee was killed a few days later when a pallet of oil filters "accidentally" fell on the guy at the factory.
Now all of this would have made the news, but it has been kept quiet due to Big Oil Companies, the Automotive Industry, Intel (it gave silicon a bad rep), Plastic Surgeon's Association, Rupert Murdoch, and George W Bush. Big brother also was able to stop production of the movie. And to this day, Fram has continued to produce these dissolving elements in secret, because the "mass public is too stupid to notice anyway".
By the way, I use Fram. And like the mass public, I have never had any problems.
A friend of mine has an aunt whose cousin's daughter is an E.R. nurse at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. One day about ten years ago Richard Gere was brought in for an emergency and this nurse that I speak of was working that day. I forget what the emergency was, he lost something somewhere... but that's not the point. Richard Gere mentioned that he was getting ready to do a movie, in which he played "whistle blower" employee who was killed at the Fram Company.
The Fram Company had developed a new silicon based compound for filter elements that was going to revolutionize the filter industry. They had produced hundreds of thousands of these new filters with the silicon elements, but they were in such a hurry to get them to store shelves, they had not done any research and development. It turned out, that when the silicon elements come into contact with petroleum based products, the elements turn to sand, and will destroy your engine after about 500,000 miles.
Every employee at the Fram Company agreed to never let this secret out, except for one employee, who refused to sign the non-disclosure agreement. This employee was killed a few days later when a pallet of oil filters "accidentally" fell on the guy at the factory.
Now all of this would have made the news, but it has been kept quiet due to Big Oil Companies, the Automotive Industry, Intel (it gave silicon a bad rep), Plastic Surgeon's Association, Rupert Murdoch, and George W Bush. Big brother also was able to stop production of the movie. And to this day, Fram has continued to produce these dissolving elements in secret, because the "mass public is too stupid to notice anyway".
By the way, I use Fram. And like the mass public, I have never had any problems.
Last edited by BigO; Nov 2, 2007 at 04:51 PM.
Nov 2, 2007 | 05:23 PM
#36
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: Durham, NC
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
Scroll down for "Filters to Avoid"
Please read.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
Scroll down for "Filters to Avoid"
Please read.
Last edited by GoldenBeaR6; Nov 2, 2007 at 05:30 PM.
Nov 2, 2007 | 06:59 PM
#37
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,458
Likes: 4
From: Downeast, ME
Here is the true story on why Fram Filters Suck!!!
A friend of mine has an aunt whose cousin's daughter is an E.R. nurse at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. One day about ten years ago Richard Gere was brought in for an emergency and this nurse that I speak of was working that day. I forget what the emergency was, he lost something somewhere... but that's not the point. Richard Gere mentioned that he was getting ready to do a movie, in which he played "whistle blower" employee who was killed at the Fram Company.
The Fram Company had developed a new silicon based compound for filter elements that was going to revolutionize the filter industry. They had produced hundreds of thousands of these new filters with the silicon elements, but they were in such a hurry to get them to store shelves, they had not done any research and development. It turned out, that when the silicon elements come into contact with petroleum based products, the elements turn to sand, and will destroy your engine after about 500,000 miles.
Every employee at the Fram Company agreed to never let this secret out, except for one employee, who refused to sign the non-disclosure agreement. This employee was killed a few days later when a pallet of oil filters "accidentally" fell on the guy at the factory.
Now all of this would have made the news, but it has been kept quiet due to Big Oil Companies, the Automotive Industry, Intel (it gave silicon a bad rep), Plastic Surgeon's Association, Rupert Murdoch, and George W Bush. Big brother also was able to stop production of the movie. And to this day, Fram has continued to produce these dissolving elements in secret, because the "mass public is too stupid to notice anyway".
By the way, I use Fram. And like the mass public, I have never had any problems.
A friend of mine has an aunt whose cousin's daughter is an E.R. nurse at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. One day about ten years ago Richard Gere was brought in for an emergency and this nurse that I speak of was working that day. I forget what the emergency was, he lost something somewhere... but that's not the point. Richard Gere mentioned that he was getting ready to do a movie, in which he played "whistle blower" employee who was killed at the Fram Company.
The Fram Company had developed a new silicon based compound for filter elements that was going to revolutionize the filter industry. They had produced hundreds of thousands of these new filters with the silicon elements, but they were in such a hurry to get them to store shelves, they had not done any research and development. It turned out, that when the silicon elements come into contact with petroleum based products, the elements turn to sand, and will destroy your engine after about 500,000 miles.
Every employee at the Fram Company agreed to never let this secret out, except for one employee, who refused to sign the non-disclosure agreement. This employee was killed a few days later when a pallet of oil filters "accidentally" fell on the guy at the factory.
Now all of this would have made the news, but it has been kept quiet due to Big Oil Companies, the Automotive Industry, Intel (it gave silicon a bad rep), Plastic Surgeon's Association, Rupert Murdoch, and George W Bush. Big brother also was able to stop production of the movie. And to this day, Fram has continued to produce these dissolving elements in secret, because the "mass public is too stupid to notice anyway".
By the way, I use Fram. And like the mass public, I have never had any problems.
Nov 2, 2007 | 07:11 PM
#38
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 2
From: milwaukee, WI baby muddin in the streets!!
dang now i wanna use fram cause the little sandies will clean out the motor and everything real nice and hell if it blows up at 798,992 then so be it then ill come back on here in 20 years and let you know if they do suck ha ha yeah rightafrter 500k my god
Nov 2, 2007 | 09:00 PM
#40
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 901
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From: The Republic Texas
I buy them from a guy on e-bay...it is actually a Toyota Dealership in Dallas. I don't remember the price, but I got a great deal on a case. I bought a case for my 4Runner and one for my Sequoia...he includes the drain plug seal also.
