Bumpin' Yota

Shoes, as others have said, you want a great area under the curve not a ultra peaky motor that develops 500hp over a 500 rpm bandwith and the rest of the time falls on its face.

Id think that 300hp peaking at about 4800 rpm and slowly falling off to red line or so would be perfect for you needs. Remember the higher the HP you want the higher youll have to rev to get it... And all that time spent revving up to your target HP is often where the engine may fall on its face.

This is why a lot of the 408/410 LSx strokers with a huge cam get stomped on the street by 408/410 LSx strokers with a small to moderate cam with more area under the curve.

Dual turbos is silly imo. Do some research and see why. A properly sized single is cheaper, less complex, easier to tune, less prone to failure, easier to maintain and has all the benefits of a pair of turbos. This is why you see the mark IV supra guys ditching the twins and going for a larger single. Same for the ageing 300zxtt guys.

shoes138

well then why do the 300zx, supras, and skylines comes with twin turbos if they werent any good? i understand on what your trying to say bumpin, but i still believe that twin turbos can spool up alot faster than a single BIG turbo. correct me if im wrong im still researching. a big turbo has so much lag other than two smaller ones. but i will seriously give it some thought thou.

I want my truck to be a trailer queen and a dragster.

gt0987

If your truck is going to be a trailer queen/dragster then turbo lag doesn't matter. You'll have everything spooled and ready to go when you launch. The car companies go with twins because they come on more smoothly and that helps with driveability for the widespread general public.

Bumpin' Yota

See that's just it, if you select your hotside of the single properly, you wont have any turbo lag at all with respect to the twins.

For instance with my 3vze shooting for 250hp at 4800rpm, using a T04e-50 with a T3 hotside of 0.63ar, I should be into boost at 1500rpm, and full boost by 2500rpm. Me being an auto, my torque converter pretty much flashes to 2000rpm. Thus if I want to launch, just punch it. If I want to do a racing launch I powerbrake, and will be into boost at launch.

Here is something I found via google

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/01...n_turbo_supra/

0.5psi difference on bottom end at most, pay close attention to the y-axis graduation. 0.5psi is nothing.

OSIRIS

I wasn't saying that the 3VZ-FE was better than any of the others. I simply said use that motor because of the better head flow as compared to the 3VZ-E. For sure the 5VZ is better, everybody changes the 3VZ out for the 5VZ and it's super easy to SC. The 3VZ internals are different only because they are forged instead of cast, but otherwise the 5VZ is same with more displacement and better head flow plus some other things but anyway.

Thx. Drop twin-turbo set up for drag purposes. Any turbo will be spooled up with the RPMs close to red line for 3-5 secs while at the X-mas tree! A single turbo to produce max power from 4.5K up w/a rev limit set at 6K to save internals would be a good place to start your research. You will want to keep it simple to be able to fine tune and fix when junk starts to crap out after runs. Since your are running this as a drag queen, I would drop the intercooler. Think. What applies on the street, does not necessarily apply on the drag strip. I would have a modified airbox with a K&N cone filter. In that airbox, I would put dry ice in there to cool the air and run straight from there to turbo to intake. It is lighter, less piping, one turbo, easier setup, bla, bla, bla.

Just my thoughts. Think (brainstorm) first, then build. Only build for a purpose, not for talking points. You'll get 'oohs' from the performance and if you say you only have one turbo and no intercooler, then they may not think you are as strong as you are if you say I have six turbos, six intercoolers, KNIGHT RIDER turbo boost buttons and a little rocket in the back of the bed.

Osiris

shoes138

very good points, it would be less trouble for a single and give just as much power as a twin. but just saying and looking at a motor with twin just looks kool. anywayz i was look at .63 a/r turbo it seems like a good fit for the 3vz-e. im just wondering how boost can it take. i want to make this motor as powerful as she can be. now heres the problem if i run a single turbo its most like gonna be on the drivers side, now should keep the stock manifold or build a header for it? or should i relocate everything to the passenger side since ther is more room?

dijlop

lol. a dragger/trailer queen. id hate to be there when u clipped the wall at 120mph and made scrap metal outa ur beautiful body there. lol. its so pretty.

more on topic, id agree with the single turbo. u can get the power ur gonig to need from that, and its all about tuning from there. be a sleeper. everybody likes a sleeper. its so much more fun to beat the snot outa some hotshot in a vette when hes laughin at how easily hes gonna blow ur doors off.

OSIRIS

I believe Bumpin' is referring to a T3/T4 hybrid w/.63 AR. very common for the 3.0L motors for the street. I see that all day long on the Z car sites and projects. It has been proven very effective for those build ups. Those Zs can yield 450hp with turbos and standalone systems, but they are entirely different.

Before you decide anything on what you are looking for, find out what the max the motor can produce. Here is a nice link to help determine what the limits of the 3VZ motor is and then you can determine which turbo is best suited for you. As this article states, there is a limit to the power production of a given designed motor and it will not matter if you put on the biggest turbo on the motor, the motor will not flow the air to generate the power you think you can get. Find out what the motor can do and then build the motor within the specs.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turboappdata.htm


Osiris

Weasy2k

Ah my mistake i read our comment wrong, my apologies man

Bumpin' Yota

As far as a drag car, it would be a lot easier to drop a small block chevy, stroke it out, and turbo it, and put 'er in front of a 4L80e with a high stall.

Actually that in a small toy would mean death in the hands of an inexperienced driver.

I drove 675rwhp supercharged small block in a 1937 plymouth. It scared the living crap out of me the first time I hit it. Not scared like adrenaline scared, but "OMFG IM GOING TO DIE!!!" S*** your pants kind of scared! When you are driving at 60, floor it, it goes sideways smoking the 32"x15"r15 tires it kinda does that....lol

While I agree for a drag truck you need to lighten the load where ever possible, you have GOT to get the post turbo AITs down. A T4 being pushed to the limit is going to REALLY heat up the air, 200-300*F kinda heat up. Dry Ice in the air box would not be a good idea though because as the dry ice sublimes, the gas it gives off is CO2. CO2 doesnt burn with gasoline at all.

A lot of the drag trucks used on the salt flats use a water-air intercooler and in the water reservoir, place ice. But a good high effeciency water to air intercooler is BIG $$$$

Personally Id go WMI, should be the lightest and most effective over the short term

Bumpin' Yota

After reviewing my data, it was a TO4e-50 not a 60 that was ideal for my calculations of 250hp!

Weasy2k

If you re talking drag trucks...250hp wont really do much....if you want to go crazy say 350+ 5vz-fe would be better suited for that. Just my opinion...

Bumpin' Yota

oh agreed, I just want 250 or so with lots of area under the curve to make driving my truck more fun.

shoes138

well i know with low compression pistons, that will help out alot and also the heads and headers. i wanna try to get this motor at least to 300hp. im pretty sure that the block can handle alot of abuse. arent the 5vz-fe block and 3vz-e block pretty identical? if so then the 3vz block will hold.
i looked at the site you recommended Osiris and there also stating that i should use a .63/.82 A/R for my size motor. if i when bigger that would mean more lag, and more power?

Stomis

Ok so how did this install turn out? Noticable power increase? It seems to have been hijacked to hell and I cant find my way through the clutter.

Weasy2k

^ Just need to read Page 1 first post and the first page or 2 is all about the install.

There was a bit of hiccup during install because i found a crack in 1 of the old cams.

Bumpin,
Yea man 250 would REALLY waken up the truck.

As for the diff between 5vz and 3vz...heads....the blocks are both tough as nails, but the 5vz-fe just has a head that flows much better due to the 24V setup vs the -e's 12v. With a 24v head platform you can push more power per psi vs 12v.
No you cannot mix and match heads....
I change my mind...if you are thinking 400+ then 5vz-fe cause i think you can squeeze 300-400 out of the 3vz-e, nice cams, valves and turbo setup will help (of course pistons and rods are recommended as well)

Bumpin' Yota

Get the cams, I have a set as does the origional poster. Youll love the difference it makes! Most all of the posts before Shoe's post deals with the difference. The idle is soooo nice and sexy with its lumpyness, but just off of idle 900-1000rpm its on cam. But when you hit 2500rpm and above she will REALLY pull.

Shoes - after my date and after work today Ill crunch some numbers for you for 350, 400, and 450 (3x stock hp) hp for ya, to give you some ideas. But here's something to wet your pallate. 450crank horse will require 45lb/min of air. Forced through a 181ci, 5800rpm limited v6, will require approximately 26psi of boost....

dijlop

i cant count that high. i think at this point id buy a ferrari or something and just be fast. maybe a veyron. just fast. not even tryin. just fast.

but good luck with the huge hp. i saw a lil ol pickup truck smoke a corvette the other day and it totally made my day. could be u makin peoples day next man.

shoes138

thanks you guys for helping me out. i think with weazy's cams and the o/s valves will help out alot with the air flow. Thou i do know that you cant swap over heads, but i wish i could. if i could get to a near 400hp i will be one happy guy! i think i would be able to but time will tell thou!

also im gonna get my head port n polished, n i heard you dont wanna run the runners to big if your gonna go turbo. its this true?

TNRabbit