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Under powered truck, too small of an exhaust???

Old 03-09-2015, 09:47 PM
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Under powered truck, too small of an exhaust???

I put my 85 22R engine out of a 2x4 long bed truck and put it in a 87 4x4 truck w/ standard size bed (6'). I want to know what size your exhaust is coming out of the catalytic converter and going into your muffler and out as your tail pipe. I found out the 85 only had an 1-1/4" exhaust pipe and it looks like the 87 had an 1-1/2 exhaust. What does your truck have?

I ask because I am suffering from an under powered truck. My old truck had a lot more power then this truck has and it is literally the exact same engine I pulled out of the old truck. The engine passed emission and appears to be running right. I replaced the fuel filter and move my K&N Air filter into the new truck with the engine.

I know I have to rebuild my Transmission and am wondering how much bearing drag on the noisy bearings might be contributing to my problem. I have not been able to confirm gas mileage yet due to other problems...

grey
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:29 AM
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Red face

It might be almost the same engine but not the same truck.

Remove the added extra weight of the 4x4 it would be about like your 2wd.

Then of course both would need to be geared the same running the same tires.

These are not high horse power engines even when new with some age even less so.

2 1/4" is the best size you might see some gain. Then your still restricting the exhaust from the manifold through the cat.

High Flow Cat and Muffler this can get expensive real quick.

Header as well

I always ran the stock size exhaust because parts were easier to get when needed.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:01 AM
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4x4 is like 600lbs heavier then 2x4 and wheel size difference is considerable. 4x4 wheels about 28" tall where as 2x4 wheels are only 24.5" - 25" tall. There is a big difference in these trucks, but the power I have in this truck, or I should say lack of power is horrible. I can't believe they would have sold many if this truck is running right. My 2x4 was no power house, but it could get out of it's own way...

Out here exhaust parts last a long long time. So much so to the point that you can't go to Auto-zone or O'Reilly and pick up an exhaust system as I understand you can in the rust belt.

I don't like loud vehicles, but I need to do something to give this a little more power...

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Old 03-10-2015, 08:15 AM
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Did you actually measure? 1 1/4" exhaust is smaller than my dirtbike. I have a generator that has a bigger exhaust than that. 1 7/8" is stock size on the v6 IIRC which will flow plenty. You won't need any more than that. You want the smaller diameter exhaust for the velocity and the heat retention which promotes velocity. Too big an exhaust might gain you an unusable 5hp at redline, but will shift your torque curve up higher which adds to the problem.

Check your base timing. Advance it a couple degrees from stock setting. How much engine vacuum do you have? Too small an exhaust will make you read very low vacuum, much like a clogged cat will do.

edit: 1 7/8" on 22re, 2 1/8" on 3vze just confirmed

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Old 03-10-2015, 08:46 AM
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yeah i think stock 22re exhaust is something like 1-3/4"ID. my guess is it has more to do with the difference of 4wd, tires and gearing - then perhaps trans if they're different as well as aerodynamics of the 4wd.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:19 AM
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Red face

Now my reply was based on the engine having just had a major tune up

Then tuned to it runs at it`s best.

Then remember your talking back in the mid eighties
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
I put my 85 22R engine out of a 2x4 long bed truck and put it in a 87 4x4 truck w/ standard size bed (6'). I want to know what size your exhaust is coming out of the catalytic converter and going into your muffler and out as your tail pipe. I found out the 85 only had an 1-1/4" exhaust pipe and it looks like the 87 had an 1-1/2 exhaust. What does your truck have?

I ask because I am suffering from an under powered truck. My old truck had a lot more power then this truck has and it is literally the exact same engine I pulled out of the old truck. The engine passed emission and appears to be running right. I replaced the fuel filter and move my K&N Air filter into the new truck with the engine.

I know I have to rebuild my Transmission and am wondering how much bearing drag on the noisy bearings might be contributing to my problem. I have not been able to confirm gas mileage yet due to other problems...

grey
My 76 2wd scaled at 2400lb. My 82 4x4 scales at 3250lb. Your truck gained 800lbs and now sits much higher off the ground. Simply putting up a bigger exhaust pipe will do little to nothing. In order to increase power you will need a larger cam and a tunable carburetor.

In that case , a two inch or larger pipe may help.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:18 PM
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I'm not trying to over size the exhaust, I'm trying to figure out what is supposed to be on my 1987 4x4 w/ 22R engine and 5 speed manual transmission and air conditioning.

grey

Last edited by greyheadedguy; 09-02-2017 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
4x4 is like 600lbs heavier then 2x4 and wheel size difference is considerable. 4x4 wheels about 28" tall where as 2x4 wheels are only 24.5" - 25" tall. There is a big difference in these trucks, but the power I have in this truck, or I should say lack of power is horrible. I can't believe they would have sold many if this truck is running right. My 2x4 was no power house, but it could get out of it's own way...

Out here exhaust parts last a long long time. So much so to the point that you can't go to Auto-zone or O'Reilly and pick up an exhaust system as I understand you can in the rust belt.

I don't like loud vehicles, but I need to do something to give this a little more power...

grey


Seems like you're asking what needs to be done not to have an anemic pickup. Answers to both questions are above.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:15 PM
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This really depends on how much you want to spend. One of the first things I did was install a larger radiator because you want to avoid overheating the engine. And as you have remarked the stock exhaust system is on the small side on the 22R. I have the original cat on mine, but I have a larger muffler and tail pipe. The muffler on mine is 18" long, 6" in diameter, round and has 2" ID pipe. The original tail pipe was ~ 1 5/8" ID, I replaced it with a tail pipe used on the 90-95 3.0 v6 pickup: walker 44088. It is ~ 1 7/8" ID. With those upgrades, I'm comfortable running Iridium spark plugs with a larger gap than the original specs of .031. I've had good results using NGK BPR5EIX plugs which I opened up to .039. Now I'm running Denso Iridium Power plugs : IW16 which have a gap of ~.044. I'm using the Blue Streak 8.5mm wires pn SMP10060. I also using the Wells 15558G (Airtex 3D1241A) copper cap. I run premium gas in mine as it runs a little better with it. All of of this helps, but it is still a 4 banger and I'm not going to be climbing Pikes Peak with it.
Amazon.com: Walker 44088 Tail Pipe: Automotive Amazon.com: Walker 44088 Tail Pipe: Automotive

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Old 03-13-2015, 09:12 PM
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Right now I have a frankentruck part 85 2x4 part 87 4x4. Trying to get 87 spec. then I can finish the power problem. My gas mileage is running closer to 12 MPG which is not acceptable... I'm expecting closer to 18 - 20 MPG

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Old 03-13-2015, 09:40 PM
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Stupid question not towards you, well unless you owned both trucks since off the lot (meant to post earlier but some how iphone connection didn't make it happen). So both of these trucks are in between years. As far as generations of the 22R/RE go. Plus sprinkle in that import 21R was a direct fit for a 22r.

Was the 87 EFI? if memory serves there was a few trickle through 22R's that slipped though. Or a 22re 4x4 that was engine swapped to 22/21r carbed? Next was the '85 4x2 an tall block or short block? meaning older block vrs new. Has a funny saturn (planet) style design mold on passenger side of engine. LCE's page explains it well.

Let's start there. And judging from the guys that have already posted, there's some good knowledge tracking this post already.
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Old 03-13-2015, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by muddpigg View Post
Stupid question not towards you, well unless you owned both trucks since off the lot (meant to post earlier but some how iphone connection didn't make it happen). So both of these trucks are in between years. As far as generations of the 22R/RE go. Plus sprinkle in that import 21R was a direct fit for a 22r.

Was the 87 EFI? if memory serves there was a few trickle through 22R's that slipped though. Or a 22re 4x4 that was engine swapped to 22/21r carbed? Next was the '85 4x2 an tall block or short block? meaning older block vrs new. Has a funny saturn (planet) style design mold on passenger side of engine. LCE's page explains it well.

Let's start there. And judging from the guys that have already posted, there's some good knowledge tracking this post already.
Both trucks are/were 22R as far as I know. The engine I pulled out of the 87 was a 22R and not the original engine I would judge by what I found in the oil pan when I did oil pan and pick up swap. All i found in the oil pan was plastic from a timing chain guide. Nothing else. The oil pan was spotless otherwise.

I have owned the 85 from Nov 2001. It was murdered in May of 2013 10 days after I got it back on the road after rebuilding the engine.

The 87 I bought in Sept of 2014 and had it parked until I could afford to work on it. I started the work on it in December 2014. The engine out of this truck is a joke. I was told it has a blown head gasket, but don't know beyond what I was told. I went to break loose the harmonic balancer with engine on a cart with lever built on to it to keep from knocking it off the cart. I put my break over bar with my cheater pipe on it and got ready to give a big push when the pipe flew out of my hands and hit the concrete. The crank pulley bolt was on only finger tight. I pulled the pulley to find the seal surface badly scored and the woodruff key split long ways. Looks like they drove it with a loosed Crank shaft pulley nut.

I rebuilt my 85 22R because the headgasket leaked on me. My fault, I did not clean the threads before I put it together and the thread I had problems with is were the gasket leaked. Head and block were true to spec. The engine is running well, but the transmission is making noise... Bad bearings and I'm sure that is enough to hurt my gas mileage. You should hear it when I put the transfer case in neutral and run through the gears on the transmission...

I hope that is better information for help,

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Old 03-13-2015, 10:45 PM
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The reason I ask is the tall block (laser) https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...k-head-243586/

So the later 22r's even carb'd had a ECU for emissions. But some of the 85 4x2 22r were still the older didn't so may still have an non laser/short block.

The 21R was an engine that was imported as a direct replacement for a 22r but produced less power but looks similar though i think emissions were better. So a company (JDM) imported them used from Japan (really tight emissions) as replacement motor, much cheaper than rebuilding a 22r. I think otherwise they were only used in forklifts here new. I don't know how to tell a 21r from a 22r at a glance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_R_engine
So take a look see. We'll go from there.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by muddpigg View Post
The reason I ask is the tall block (laser) https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...k-head-243586/

So the later 22r's even carb'd had a ECU for emissions. But some of the 85 4x2 22r were still the older didn't so may still have an non laser/short block.

The 21R was an engine that was imported as a direct replacement for a 22r but produced less power but looks similar though i think emissions were better. So a company (JDM) imported them used from Japan (really tight emissions) as replacement motor, much cheaper than rebuilding a 22r. I think otherwise they were only used in forklifts here new. I don't know how to tell a 21r from a 22r at a glance.
Toyota R engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So take a look see. We'll go from there.
I will have to craw under to take a look, but I reringed my engine when I rebuilt it and I put standard 22R engine rings in the engine. The 22R has Cylinder bore was 91.9 mm (3.62 in)while the 21R has a Cylinder bore was 84 mm (3.31 in). A big difference and not interchangeable. That being said I have a 22R engine that took out of my 85 and installed in to the 87, I'd say. I will still look if you think it is necessary...

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Old 03-19-2015, 03:06 AM
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Hold on, let me get this straight. You want more power/better fuel economy (who doesn't, lol) and to find out the proper exhaust diameter? Are those still the questions at hand?

If you are fabricating a new exhaust anything under a two inch pipe is irresponsible. If you are choosing which of two used systems to use, the bigger pipe as long as it does not exceed 2.5" should be used. Clear enough?

Your truck is underpowered due to weight. All 22R 4wd drive trucks get less than stellar fuel economy and are underpowered from mother Toyota. Exhaust pipes alone won't change this. if you are getting less than 15 mpg around town and 17 mpg on the freeway you either drive uphill everywhere or have other problems in tandem.

Am I fully up to speed on your issues?

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Old 03-19-2015, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbyjimb View Post
Hold on, let me get this straight. You want more power/better fuel economy (who doesn't, lol) and to find out the proper exhaust diameter? Are those still the questions at hand?

If you are fabricating a new exhaust anything under a two inch pipe is irresponsible. If you are choosing which of two used systems to use, the bigger pipe as long as it does not exceed 2.5" should be used. Clear enough?

Your truck is underpowered due to weight. All 22R 4wd drive trucks get less than stellar fuel economy and are underpowered from mother Toyota. Exhaust pipes alone won't change this. if you are getting less than 15 mpg around town and 17 mpg on the freeway you either drive uphill everywhere or have other problems in tandem.

Am I fully up to speed on your issues?
As I said above, I am trying to figure out what the stock exhaust is supposed to be, because what's on it is not stock.

" if you are getting less than 15 mpg around town and 17 mpg on the freeway you either drive uphill everywhere or have other problems in tandem." Now you've got it! That engine in my 85 2x4 long bed was getting 24 - 27 MPG around town, so I know the engine itself is okay. I have resolved the dragging brakes, but am still getting less then 15 MPG... Tranny is making noise which is getting louder, so I fear that is my next place to go. I really wasn't wanting to have t rebuild the tranny, but...

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Old 03-19-2015, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
I will have to craw under to take a look, but I reringed my engine when I rebuilt it and I put standard 22R engine rings in the engine. The 22R has Cylinder bore was 91.9 mm (3.62 in)while the 21R has a Cylinder bore was 84 mm (3.31 in). A big difference and not interchangeable. That being said I have a 22R engine that took out of my 85 and installed in to the 87, I'd say. I will still look if you think it is necessary...

grey
Started to reply yesterday but was in class and had to change gears to class work.

Doesn't get much more accurate than measuring bore diameter.

I think the stock exhaust was 1 7/8".
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:03 PM
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Well an interesting thing has happened. My truck has developed a misfire and was getting hard(er) to start. So I started going through things. I checked the wires, fuel level in the bowl of the Carburetor. I even checked the timing. I started to check the spark plugs, but got thinking about the coil and the ignition unit. I pulled the one from my wrecked truck (I had replaced the ignition unit shortly before the overhaul) and put the complete unit in my truck. I had to run an errand and took the truck out. After running it a little bit the truck had more power and pep then it ever has in this configuration. I'll check my gas mileage and let you know what happens. My truck is back!!! I am so relieved! I was really wondering/hoping it was a lot of friction in the bad transmission bearings killing the gas mileage and power.
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Old 05-30-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
Well an interesting thing has happened. My truck has developed a misfire and was getting hard(er) to start. So I started going through things. I checked the wires, fuel level in the bowl of the Carburetor. I even checked the timing. I started to check the spark plugs, but got thinking about the coil and the ignition unit. I pulled the one from my wrecked truck (I had replaced the ignition unit shortly before the overhaul) and put the complete unit in my truck. I had to run an errand and took the truck out. After running it a little bit the truck had more power and pep then it ever has in this configuration.
Good to Know! I've been looking in to the GM module conversion. I wanted to wire it up so I could easily change from the factory module to the GM one. Some have reported improved performance using the GM set up. I am still looking for some long term term feedback on the GM mod. This mod is on the back burner for now. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...66/index3.html
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