coot

Hello everyone,
I am sure that everyone is probably tired of hearing questions like these, but I was curious as to what would be better, turbo or charger? I guess my question between these two is will my engine last the same amount with either setup or is one better on engines than the other?

This is my plan, either go for a turbo for my 3.0, or drop in a 3.4 and hook up the trd supercharger. With this being said, would it be completely retarded to drop in a 3.4 into a 95? I mean will everything hook up for the most part, or is this gonna make my engine overkill on the rest of my parts which would result in other parts going out due to a 3.4?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Coot

atistang

Turbos are prone to heat soak, but its not a huge issue with a good setup.
Turbos also will make more power with the same amount of boost, the are way more efficient, but you will have a little lag.

Superchargers, if its a roots that takes place of the intake manifold then it is also prone to heat soak but not very bad, but you will have to get pretty technical to inter cool a roots blower set up, but it can be done. The mention of the belt on the crank can speed up the wear of the front crank bearing but again it is so minor it will probably never give you any problems. Centrifugal blowers are more efficient than roots, but they won't make the low globs of torque that a roots will. They typically go through an inter cooler like a turbo would.
If it was me and I was doing a truck for trails then I personally would go with a roots blower like I believe the TRD one is.

91_4x4runner

Depends on what you want to go for. A few people have turbo'd and tuned the 3.0 with good results, others just end up blowing headgaskets. If you want instant torque, a supercharger is definitely the way to go (off-road). I hear that the turbos don't do good in dirty conditions.

coot

Guys,
Thanks alot for the input. Im def trying to have my ride get some pick up in it, but at the same time, be off road capable. So if I were to go get a 3.4 and hook up a TRD supercharger, would I be all good to go for the main parts, or would more be involved for a blower?

Coot

AH64ID

Personally I am a big fan of turbos, over S/C... thou a good S/C is a great setup.

I like turbos becuase they are more demand based, i.e. at 3,000 rpm if you dont really need boost your not making it. And they can have adjustible wastegates installed to controll boost, i.e. tune for what you need. Like 1-3 psi on the fwy for optimal economy, or off when crawling to limit power spikes and broken parts, or full for beating those turd little rice burners off the line. The lag to me is acceptibable when the advantages of a propper turbo are utilized. Turbos do require a little more room, and fancy exhaust work, but if you have good space managment they can look good, you can plumb an intercooler for longer life, and make some really good power. The custom exhaust is the trickey part.. take a look at the turbo on the 05 in this 4WDTO, its a nice setup, but that front dump exhaust would drive me nuts... IIRC the exhaust on my dads 84 6.2L diesel burb went around the front by the radiator from one side to the other to meet for the turbo, then still ran out the back. Not sure if there is room with a 3.0 or not... Then you have the issue of keeping the turbo away from water and the likes... but if you want it, it can be done

As far as the 3.4 swap, do a search this is almost as common now as SBC 350's into land cruisers.... www.offroadsolutions.com

dmatter

That guy in Toyota 4WD Owner Totally ruined a Really Really Nice Tacoma For a Measely 60 Horsepower. The Install Looked Pretty hack to me! The Amount of Money Spent on that Project was Ridiculuos and the Performance Gains were Minimal. He Should have Went with a TRD Supercharger Kept the OEM Look and the "Factory Warranty" and Been Done With it. That Engine Compartment and Exhaust Looked "Butchered" Does His Hood Even Shut Right??????

20005spd

are you talkin bout the last issue? the 2004 taco. 300hp that is deff weak. i i think it said he spent $20k which i think is total waste. he could have got at least the same hp gains from the simple trd setup for way cheaper.

20005spd

oh sry coot i almost forgot, dont even bother trying to get power from a 3.0. i say its not worth it. the motor is a pain to work on in the truck and is way to underpowered. either do the 3.4 with s/c and fuel upgrades or just put a chevy 350 in.

dmatter

I Think it was a Silver 2005 Tacoma...................Butchered to HELL. Check out the First Picture the Hood Does'nt Even Shut Right:pat: WHAT A WASTE! He Said he Wanted to do Something Nobody else has Done Yet.......I WONDER WHY THEY HAVE'NT......Its hack to the Max.

20005spd

ya thats the one im talkn about, im glad someone agrees that it is stupid.

Bumpin' Yota

Ok about turbo's you all are forgetting some VERY critical points:


If you have the auto, your torque converter's flash point is 2300-2800rpm. That is you will not feel the full power of the engine until that point. Hence the torque down low arguement is moot. You are going to feel what you are going to feel until the TC flashes.

Second choosing the proper hotside on the turbo can leave you with zero lag. You may have to use a larger external wastegate to prevent boost creep but zero lag is a definate possibility with turbos.

Third I dont think yall realize just how inefficient superchargers (like the TRD unit) are! The consumea large chunk of engery they add just to operate! Here is a graph of energy consumed courtesy of toysrme256th:



This means that 2 engines both making 300rwhp, the supercharged one is under a LOT more stress. (remember it has to make 340+hp to overcome the 40hp loss from the SC)

How much hp loss is there with a turbine in the exhuast in a properly setup turbo application? About a 4% loss.... In my case for a turbo on a 3vze to make an additionall 100hp it would consume about 4.1hp.


Ive seen 2 turbo 3.0s out there thus far. One has an msd ignition retard, intercooler, and a grandnational turbo. He wound the boost up to 18psi iirc and never had issues. IMO i would not have used the GN turbo....T04e-50 compressor matches up with the 3vze making 250 crank hp at 14.7psi beautifully. The other used a small mitsubishi turbo. The one with the mitsu turbo blew a HG, and i cant help but wonder how overwhelmed that little turbo must have been when the guy took his truck over 4500rpm.

In any event given your situation Id say run the 3vze till she pops a HG. Then use that as your opportunity to do some serious work on the heads. (Make no mistake this engine needs head work most - new cams, valves, pnp all will make huge improvments) While in there use that as an opportunity to give ARP a call and have them assemble you a head stud kit cost should be in the 150 - 180 range OR you can go with engine builders 10.9 headbolts. Both of which are lightyears ahead of oem TTY headbolts that are the reason for 3vze's blowing HG's...imo.

Some poeple say spending money on the 3vze is pissing it away, maybe they are right, maybe not. I intend to have a daily drivable 250 crank hp turbo charged 3vze. Once my NA build is done my 3vze should match a stock 5vz-fe on HP and TQ....should make the turbo giving me 60-70hp cake.




Incorrect sir. My 6.5L turbo diesel is a DOG without any boost. It has boost at 1000rpm. And takes off faster than most gassers off the line. IE - zero lag. Choose your wheels correctly and youll have little to no lag.

Show me a picture of where anyone has intercooled a roots supercharger. Heat soak is prevented in a turbocharged system with a simple turbo timer....or by letting your car idle for about 3 to 5 minutes. And its effects are also helped out with a water cooled turbo.

(For those who dont know it's essentially running the vehicle hard for a long period of time were there turbine and housing is around 1200-1400*F, then suddenly shutting the system down. The oil in the bearings gets cooked and the turbine blades may warp from cooling down too fast from that high temp.)

So then all of the thousands of turbo diesels out there on the road wont do well in dirty conditions? Hell diesels consume a lot more air than gassers do... Proper filtration IS more critical on a turbocharged application yes, but the situation is irrelevant if your filter is up to the task.


Youd be every bit as involved for a trd blower as you would be for a turbo charger. Forced induction is forced induction. Both do the same thing. TRD incorrectly advertises the TRD blower as being plug and play when nothing further is from the truth. You have to jump down a heat rang in spark plugs, add a method to cool the compressed air, your need to also upgrade the fuel pump and usually add a LARGE 7th injector which means a piggyback injection controller. That is if you want the TRD blower to actually work and your engine to not detonate above 4000rpm....

gbalias

lots of good info from bumpin.

although the oil coking problem with heat soak is pretty much alleviated now with good synthetics, it should be a conscious effort to not be mashing the throttle for the last minute or two of your drive. then you dont have to worry about the ricer turbo timers.

and by far, turbocharging is pretty much like 'free' power. almost a negligible parasitic loss of power to run vs. supercharging.

86SR522REEFI

20K can get a nice racing engine

AH64ID

There are aspects of that truck I dont like, however I think the hood was cracked for cooling when running hot in the dunes, as there are photos with it shut, and from the photos there is nothing blocking the hood. The install itself is actually pretty decent considering the little room there is to place a turbo.

Its also a 05, there is no TRD blower for that app yet, at this point its only a rumor... And a 67hp gain is a pretty decent gain (25%), for the money maybe not...

URD makes a blower that is 305rwhp on a xrunner with a 6 speed, so you will experiance a fair amount more loss thru an auto and xcase. At thats a fairly expensive setup.

20005spd

sorry but 3vze is crap. if you did all that work to a 3.4 or something the benefits would be tremendous, but if you start with the 3.4 you wouldnt have to go as far for the same power. ya sry trd doesnt offer an s/c for that yet but yes urd does, i think it is simpler and screw payn $20k for that bs turbo kit. he should have bought a new vehicle that would actually go fast when $20k was thrown into it. and if you buy the trd 7th injector kit it comes with an ecu and needed harnesess, there is your intercooling effect, and then just upgrade the fuel pump and regulater you should be fine. screw the 3.0! lol

AH64ID

I wouldnt go that far.. It still happens on turbine engines, which only run sythetics, and they get about as hot... But if you have that much $$ into the setup you have a pyro, so you watch it for when to shut down... On HD diesel rigs by the time you get parked after getting off the freeway usually your cool enough to shut down... the same would apply for gassers...

Bumpin' Yota

The 5vz-fe is no better than the 3vz-e is. It had a HG issue just as long and as extensive as the 3vz-e did. The ONLY thing hurting the 3vze are its heads, and the morons at the dealer thinking the TTY head bolts were reusable. In any engine system the biggest limiter of horsepower is the weakest link. In the 3vze the weakest link are the heads and cams. If you actually knew anything about engines you'd realize this. The 5vzfe on the other hand already has a relatively high VE so those mods would not have the same effect as they will on a 3vze. Go do some research before you post next time.

There is NO intercooling effect by any 7th injector kit. Go do some research and dont post back till you actually know the difference btwn charge air cooling and keeping the AFR under 12.5:1... What was that addage about a fool opening their mouth and confirming the fact?

Secondarily I was not justifying paying 20k for ANY turbo kit, that guy was an idiot for paying that for 67hp.

So when are you going to sell that 4runner and go buy a d16 equipped civic with fart can, huge wing, and graphics to match your attitude?

AH64ID

Better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and be proven one

atistang

Gasoline engines and diesel engines are all around completely different running engines, yeah if a 3.0 gasser put out the same amount of exhaust a 7.3 diesel did then things would be different.

Roots blower with an intercooler, pop the hood on a Thunderbird Supercoupe.

As for the heat soak I was talking about under extreme load for long periods of time, some setups don't seem to have these problems but I have seen exhaust manifolds glowing white because they got so hot. Of course that was also a car making +2300hp.

20005spd

w/e ive had two 22re trucks a 22r truck a 3vze and now have the 5vze i only speak from expeirience. u could go on and on and saying what lil things hold back certian motors but in my opinion which i am allowed to have the 3vze isnt worth it. do head work on the 5vze and itll still have more hp than doing it to the 3vze.