Gevo

Hi guys, so yesterday the tranny hsop tore into my transmission and today I got exactly what you expect from a 216k mile tranny... A call saying it will be $1500 to fix the tranny and rid of the oil leaks which is coming from the transfer case. I read around the forums here and other places but I didn't find a good place where people discussed this transmission and what to look for when getting work done on it.

The problem was that the reverse gear was slipping completely, and there was some leak from the peep holes on the driver side of the transfer case extension housing.

The slippage was due to a torn up reverse clutch, which in turn has messed up the drum.

The leak is due to something I'm not familiar with and would like some details about. I forgot the exact terminology he used, but the part he referred to I think as pistons? in the transfer case that are leaking heavily which in turn leaks into the casing and out the weep holes. I'm going to go tomorrow to see all this for myself and I'll share what I find. meanwhile, I hope to gain some education from here on the items I mentioned above so I can be a well informed customer.

He also recommended that I install a new torque converter, assuming the one inside is 216k miles old. He offered for me to buy the torque converter and said that through him it will be about $200.

Actually, in the end $1500 doesn't sound to bad because he will be getting a rebuild kit for the tranny and the transfer case and in essence rebuilding both items, including a new drum. He mentioned that someone had been in the tranny before and didn't know what he was doing because of the installation of some parts ... I didn't catch which ones..

millball

Speaking as an amateur mechanic who has sucessfully rebuilt several different auto trannys and transaxles, I have to say that just about any comprehensive, clean, deliberate auto tranny overhaul is worth near $1000 in labor alone. That is just the bench work, not the parts or the tranny R&R.
Good tranny work takes very painstaking attention to detail, and I have had the luxury to be able to take my time and do the work myself on several occasions, rather than have the work done by a paid mechanic who needs to get to his next job over the top of mine.
If you have a tranny man that you have confidence in, you are a fortunate guy.
A good auto tranny overhaul cannot be done for small money unless you can do it yourself.

In many auto trannys there are accumulator pistons that act as a pressure reservoir, and take up abrupt fluid pressure spikes and delay shift times after the valve body has acted to change gear positions. When worn, the sealing rings on these accumulator pistons can leak.

Gevo

Millball. What you said about the pistons sounds similar ti what the shop said about the leak. I,ll know for sure tom. Thanks for your reply.

Gevo

The pistons discussed earlier seem to be why the oil was leaking into the transfer case and dripping out of the weep holes. The mechanic said he will be replacing them and showed me the pistons and how messed up and irregular the fitting parts are.
For others who had this problem, unfortunately it will require a tranny take apart to fix. I saw my transmission in a hundred pieces today on the mechanics bench. He showed me all the wonderful components that are.. well very used.. But he was sure the leak to the transfer case was from the pistons.

So, guys I seem to be getting a pretty good deal. He is doing hte following work for $1300 (initially was $1500 but I was honest with him and said look, I had put aside $1100 for the tranny, now even at this point if you say $1500 I will pay, but would appreciate any discount he can give, the guy said ok, I'll knock of $200) Israel and Kings Transmission.. great guy, seemingly reputable company.

Anyway... here is the list:

-Reverse gear drum (dealer part.. pricey!)
-Transfer case rebuild kit (seals and clutches)
-Tranny rebuild kit (seals and all clutches)
-All shift solenoids (dealer parts)
-Torque converter
-Check/test speed sensor
-new magnets
-throttle position cable
-Oil (it's not cheap!)

Actually, turns out about 15 years ago my dad got one of his work van's tranny's rebuilt at this shop.. ran another hard 80k miles before selling it with no problems.

millball

Sounds like you are getting all the right stuff changed out.
It is always smart to change out the torque converter when a tranny is overhauled. Converters collect plenty of crud over time that is near impossible to clean out.
Ask your guy about putting a Magnefine inline fluid filter in the tranny cooler return line.
I use them on all my auto trans stuff.
After a rebuild, a tranny sheds lots of chaff while breaking in.
The first filter should be changed out after only a couple thousand miles.
After that a Magnefine is good for 12 or 15 thousand mile intervals.
With a filter in the cooler line, the pan filter can go a very long time without service.

Gevo

millball,

thanks for the idea. I have already purchased a tranny oil cooler but didn't find a place that it easily mounts, so I put it aside for now. Once the car is back to me, I will get around to installing the oil cooler. In addition I have been trying to find a thermostat/gauge for the tranny oil, and I will think about adding the filter as well. I am a huge fan of preventative maintenance!

millball

Installing an inline filter is always a good idea, but it is especially important to install before the newly constructed tranny is put into service.
Most of the harmful grit and debris is shed into the tranny oil right away.
You should be able to install the inline filter easily, whether or not you do the auxillary cooler now or not.

Gevo

millball, is this all there is to it? Sounds like a 5 minute install
http://www.ebay.com/itm/INLINE-5-16-MAGNETIC-TRANSMISSION-FILTER-MAGNEFINE-DESIGN-BY-RAYBESTOS-/261237335915?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd2f5676b&vxp=mtr

millball

Thats it. Make sure that the hose barbs are the right size for your hose.
I think that 3/8" is needed, but I'm not sure.
Be sure to shop for the cheapest price.

Gevo

Thanks for that heads up, I meant to chose the 3/8!

69sixpackbee

I have a similar problem with my newly built A340H. The ATF came out of the "weep" hole in the transfer do fast it nearly drained the pan and did a great job of bathing the underside of my truck !
Are you saying it's the accumulator piston seals in the main trans or the one in the transfer case?
Thanx!
Bud

Gevo

He said its the pistons that go into yhe transfer case, so Im assuming those are the ones in the tcase and not the main tranny case.

RSR

Just a heads up, make sure you install the inline on the line from the tranny to your oil cooler, not on the return...

Gevo

RSR, yes of course thanks.. I had been thinking about it so I have to figure out which is which... I'm sure it's in the FSM.

So, anybody have any products they would recommend for a tranny oil temp sensor and gauge?

Gevo

I was thinking some more about your problem, and in comparison to mine... The leak on my tranny was slow, not pressurized and it was a controlled drip vs a continuous stream. I say controlled drip because I measured the time between drips. My plan was to add more tranny fluid and count the interval again and compare (don't ask, it's my engineer side).. anyway, then when the mechanic commented that some tranny's have a steel ball that usually closes the weephole and for various reasons allows it to pass through, it made sense to me.. anyway... your problem may have the same symptoms but have different, or additional issues.

millball

Why not on the return??

I have mounted every inline filter I have ever used as close to the tranny oil return point as practical.
The radiator cooler also collects debris and if a used radiator is put back into service, the oil that emerges from the radiator cooler needs to be scrubbed too.
The manufacturers instructions say installation should be made in the cooler return, except in brand new vehicles.

http://www.emergingent.com/magnefine...ation_page.htm

Gevo

Well, now my radiator is brand new and I even flushed it with clean oil in the bottom just to make sure it's clean.... so that solves my problem.. but the return line makes sense for possibly 'dirty' systems.. I think though, in the long run, it's better to put it on the output line because it will prevent the debris from building up in the radiator.. lets be honest here, if we are installing a filter today, that means the debris has been cycling for many miles.. another couple miles for the debris to cycle through and collect in the filter won't be a problem.

RSR

He is installing a NEW b&M plate cooler and his radiator is near new. The narrow channels in the plate cooler you don't want getting clogged. I suppose for the new tranny you could install one in both directions til you next oil change. But I'd keep the permanent one on TO COOLER rather than from. This is to provide optimum cooling and remove all the same crud from the tranny you'd otherwise get.

The reason most rebuild shops do the FROM COOLER for them is that the coolers hold a bunch little crap in them and can't really be flushed very well. And usually when folks have tranny issues, it's at the point where all sorts of crap from the torque converter and/or other wear and tear from end of life no longer protecting fluid has shot crud throughout the system.

His doesn't seem to be there yet.

Gevo -- I think the back hard line is the sending unit and the front is the return. On factory, it goes from tranny to towing cooler to radiator and back to tranny. For ideal tranny fluid temps and to keep from overheating your coolant in high tranny temp conditions, that's probably the way you'll want to keep it.

Gevo

RSR, Thanks... but one other question.. im on mobile right now and fsm is a pain to use on here... so when u say from tranny to towing cooler to radiator... im co fused because mine has hard lines going from tranny to radiator back. The towing cooler (which I assume is that little radiator beneath the car on passenger side) gets the lines from the transfer case. I THINK. Either way, as part of the job tbe ship is gonna flush and pressure test the second cooler on the bottom and put new sealing washers etc..

jdrum1

Iirc, a towing package with an additional cooler was an option for these years.