ironlung

Great forum, glad to join, thanks ahead for any help.

'86 4runner 220,000miles, japanese rebuilt 22RE installed in 2000 @ 200,000

Just had the rebuilt engine's head crack last fall. replaced with a brand new head, rockers, valves. Mechanic mentioned wear on the TC cover and I dismissed it as the original engine's TC cover (at 200,000 miles, what wouldn't be worn?).

Truck has been running great but noticed ratat-tattly noise until warmed up over the past month. Started it up (warm) and the engine quit like it had the plug pulled. Then I cranked it over and noticed the speed of the starter motor was increased like it was turning a smaller engine. I moved immediately into check the basics mode and found I had spark, gas, and air. Coil tested under spec so it was replaced.

Is this obviously a broken timing chain? I can see the rotor turning inside the distributor if I pop off the cap and crank it. I initially thought it couldn't be the timing chain if my dist is turning.

I never heard any noise or racket when it happened nor while cranking.

I've been digging in the forums and found the 22RE manual pages I need and I'm prepping for a run to Napa with my parts list for a timing chain replacement. I found instructions online for a TC procedure without removing the head. I'd prefer that way - any reason not to?

I'm concerned that I haven't considered alternative causes. I'm going in with a compression tester and that should confirm whether my pistons are moving.

Hints, ideas, or warnings? I'm a little frustrated that I'm back in this deep with only 20,000 miles put on since the replacement but I dig my truck.

longhungsilver

Gotta love rebuilds eh?... okay first off compression test? your pistons will move when u crank the engine either way ... the valves on the other hand will not because with a broken chain the crankshaft will spin but it will not be connected to your camshaft therefor it will not move....and neither will your distributor.... so rethink things a bit i think.. u can always pop off your valve cover first and have a look down and see if the chains really broken.........

I think you need to take a look at your igniter again..

foot0069

Sorry to hear about your experiance. 20 thou aint far. The distributor is driven off the timing gear on the end of the cam, so if its turning the chain must be as well. Maybe as simple as the bolt that holds the gear to the cam backed out allowing the locking pin to the cam to seperate from the cam. The bitch is its an interferance motor, meaning the valves can hit the pistons as they move. The cam would have held some valves open if it aint turning. Dont keep cranking the motor. Pull the valve cover off and check things out. If you find something like I've suggested, Pull the head and check for bent valves. Also need to check the condition of the chain guides. And if that bolt has backed, out I'd personnal go have a talk with whoever got your cash to replace that head.
Jim

foot0069

Dunh I'm wrong the cam has the gear on it dont it?

foot0069

Nope I was right just looked at my old one the timing gear has a flang on it with the distributor worm gear on it.

ironlung

Thanks. In regards to the igniter, I tested it and the resistance was in spec. My ECU reports all normal. I was concerned it was the distributor magnetic pickup coil and was convinced otherwise when I had a friend with an '86 4runner let me pull the pickup out and tested it on my engine. No difference. The bummer is when I put it back into her rig it is now running poorly. Didn't seem to be any adjustment to the pickup coil. I'm gonna try and fix that now too.

I'll definitely be pulling the VC off tonight and taking a look. I'll be weary of the valve damage too. I'm kinda worried.

tampabayota

if the chain broke you did do valve damage im sorry to say. You can do a compression test for the valves,just take v/c off and see if it is still there. I just went through this same problem

MMA_Alex

Pull the valve cover and inspect the chain, and all that. That'll tell ya if its broken or not. You can then decide from there what the next thing to look at it.

ps. if you're getting a new chain order it from here as you can get the one with the steel guides, which are what normally break.

tnau664

Hey IronLung. If you decide/need to replace the TC without pulling the head, be sure to take special care not to damage the front of the HG when going back together. I just did it and have a leak.

My chain adjuster was so tight I couldn't get the chain on without having the cover off. I damaged the gasket and now have an oil leak.

And oh yea, the small water pump bolts only torque to 9 lbs, not 27 like the Chiltons manual says.

T

ironlung

the info is much appreciated.

I pulled the VC and found my timing chain was in good shape but the passenger side TC guide had exploded into marble sized plastic chunks.

so my TC is fine-can a busted guide really shut this engine down? Timing gets screwed?

89truck

From everything that I have read here it could jump Time if the guide is broken. Did they replace them in the rebuild? 20,000 miles s not that long on the guides.

ovrrdrive

Sad to say it, but here's what probably happened...

The timing rail came apart and a few big pieces of it fell down into the timing well and went between the gear and chain causing it to jump time which has caused your pistons to hit the intake valves and bend all 4 of them. This is why your motor turns over so fast now, you have no compression.

The reason I can say that is because it's exactly what happened to me.

I had to get a new timing cover because mine was broken at the bottom where the gear is, a new timing set (engnbldr all the way), and a remanned head off ebay. Being impatient, I didn't do a compression test before I did all of the work so after about 20 hours of labor doing the timing set without pulling the head I turned the key finally and found out about the bent valves and had to do it all over again.

So I took it back apart and did the head and put it back together, probably another 20 hours of labor, and found out I had a bad timing cover (got a used one from a friend and it had a pinhole in it that we didn't see) so I had to go back in yet again and install a new timing cover this time.

The last time I pulled the head and oil pan to get the best seal on the timing cover like I should have done in the first place. There were chunks of metal and plastic in the pan that I would have missed otherwise so I'm glad I did. I took my time and used sealer on everything and did the best job I could. Probably about 15 hours of labor later I hit the key again and it finally roared to life.

I bet I spent $200 on gasket kits alone during all that. It was an unbelievable job but now that I've done it so many times I bet I could do it again in a weekend.

Definitely do a compression test before you touch anything. If you do need a new head I got mine from J and C Enterprises on ebay and it was $399 shipped both ways (core return included) and I've been pretty happy with it. It has the SS engnbldr valves in it and a Crane stage 2 cam. For what I paid for it I couldn't have gotten my other head reworked locally.

Good luck with it. There are a bunch of threads on this on the forum you can find of you search for it. I'll assist how ever I can...

tnau664

Here's a tip for head replacement. http://www.acheinc.com/

New 22RE head, no exchange for $275. (New valves and cam)

T

maxpower_hd

I have to agree with overdrive. You MIGHT be lucky enough that you didn't bend any valves but it's more likey that you have. Your going to have to pull the head.

You were correct in assuming the chain was intact since the rotor is spinning. However, it probably jumped a tooth or two. You can confirm without removing the head by setting the #1 cylinder to TDC (manually) on the compression stroke and see if the rotor points to the #1 plug wire position. If not it jumped.

MMA_Alex

probably worth running a compression test before you decide to take the head off. that way you know that you have a problem, and which cyls (maybe all) have the problem.

YotaJunky

x2 on checking compression before removing the head. If you have access to a leak down tester, that would help diagnose your problem further.

good luck,

Troy

foot0069

Well the more I thought about my idea the less I liked it. Glad you found the problem. When you put the pickup back in your buddies distributer did you set the air gap? It should be 0.008-0.016 in

foot0069

Look at the plate of the pickup ther's a little slot in the end with 2 little tits coming out of the distrib housing leave the mounting screws loose and stich a little flat head in the notch to set. Just like adjusting points.

ironlung

foot0069, I couldn't find any specs for the pickup's gap so I just set it wide. My friend's truck fired up and revved like a beauty so i suspect it was close enough. Thank you for stating the gap so I can make sure it is within spec next time I've got my head under the hood.

I'm gonna see about getting the 4runner towed home so I can approach the wider range of problems in a more comfortable setting then at a parking garage. Thank you all for your input. I'll post confirmation of bent intake valves as soon as I run the compression tests. Maybe it'll be obvious with a better light.

foot0069

Cool glad I could help. Found that here.

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...fsm/index.html

When I rebuilt mine I wanted to paint the distributor so I tracked that down before I took it all apart. The book kinda pisses me off though, it says in the trouble shooting section that if that pickup fails the check procedure you have to buy a new distributor. Don't know if Toyota sells it seperate or not prolly dont.
Jim