mattaway

This is kinda confusing so bare with me...

Monday morning, my battery was dead. I hooked my jump box up and got 'er started. After driving abour 5-10 minutes, I noticed my temp guage was almost at the red line. I turned on the heater until the temp dropped down to normal. This took maybe 5 minutes, and the temp never rose back up.

I didn't really think anything of it until the samething happened 2 days later. Battery was dead, got it jumped, the temp red lined.

My truck never goes more than 1/4 of the way up on the temp, whether I'm wheeling, riding on the street, letting the truck idle, etc.

The 2nd time it happened (Wednesday) I tested my battery, and it passed (480 something CCA, out of the 525 it's supposed to have.) I pulled the terminals off and cleaned them real well, as well as burping the cooling system, put it back together and everything was fine. I had to add maybe a quarts of water at the most.

Now today the samething happened. My battery was dead in the morning and the temp red lined. I turned the heater on the about 5 minutes and it went back to normal.

My clutch fan has alot of play in it, you give it a little push and it'll spin around 3-4 full turns.

My thermostat is maybe 2 months old, if I remember right I replaced it in late Feb, early March, while doing some maintanence.

Anybody have any ideas? Anything similair happen to one of you guys?

yayfortrees

You've likely already found the problem. The fan clutch should NOT free-spin even 1/2 a turn by giving it a push.

What brand of thermostat did you replace it with? OEM or cheap chinese part? I've heard of problems with cheap aftermarket thermostats, even though they were brand new.

Have you already checked your alternator? If it checks out good, and the battery load tests good, you likely have a current draw when the key is off, kind of like leaving a dome light on.

I don't think the two problems are related in any way, even though they seem to happen together.

yayfortrees

If you want more details on checking for current draw, let me know. All you will need is a multi-meter and to pull your negative cable off.

I forgot to mention on the fan clutch: If it's worn out, your fan will not spin with any force, therefore it won't move enough air through the radiator. You probably already know this, but that will definately make a cooling system fail.

betelnut

I'm not confused about this, there's no way I'm getting naked with you, bud.

If the temp gauge red lines, you'd better start thinking something of it. Overheating the engine will cause HG blowouts, head warpage, and other expensive problems.

I think yayfortress is right here. This is a real problem, and it must be independent of your electrical issues. Replace the fan clutch.

I hope yayfortress can fill us in on the current draw issue. There are some accessories, like the clock and security system, that always draw current; what's standard amperage with ignition off?

Also, if there's something else that's sucking juice faster than it should be, is it possible that it'll burn out my multimeter? The leads are pretty skinny. Maybe yayfortress has instructions for installing a shunt to measure current flow.

Also, I've got a caliper-type ammeter meant for testing household current. Wonder if it'll work on DC automotive applications too. I'll have to go test....

yayfortrees

I don't think the ammeter for household current will work. Stupid AC current.

I just thought of one other idea that may be more simple than testing current draw. Have you placed the battery on the charger since it went dead the first time? Alternators aren't really designed to charge up a dead battery, only to maintain. If it went dead the first time, then only got jumped and driven, it wouldn't be fully charged, so could go dead again very easily.

If that has already been ruled out, on to testing for current draw: I don't know what normal draw with key off should be, but it is low. Very low. You don't have to worry about blowing your multi-meter or leads as long as you DON'T start the vehicle. That's when the current will spike and blow multi-meter fuses, etc. It's been a while since I've done this test, so I don't remember how to make or use a shunt. I can go back to my notes if necessary.

Normally, you test the current draw with key off, then, with the shunt installed, start it up and continue to test the current. It should be vey low negative current with key off, than positive current with motor running. That way you test the charging current. Having an alternator tested is a lot easier than this though, and right now I'm primarily concerned with key off current draw. You said that the truck will run fine once it has been jump started right? If so, then that tells me the charging system is working fine.

On with the test procedure. Disconnect your negative battery cable. Set your multi-meter to Amps DC, usually there is a different terminal to plug your red lead into. The black lead usually stays in the same plug, but it depends on your meter.

With key off, hold one of your leads to the negative cable terminal, and the other lead to the negative post on the battery. I don't remember which one goes to which. One way you will read negative current, the other way it will read positive current. It is connected correctly when you read negative current. You should see something very, very low. Like -.1 amps, or something like that.

If you have anything over -.5 amps, or if it blows the fuse in your meter, you know you have something draining the battery.

Sorry I didn't get this posted earlier. I was lazy today and slept in.

I hope this helps!

betelnut

Here's a good description of how a shunt works, interesting stuff:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...o+a+DC+Ammeter

But yayfortrees is right, just don't start your vehicle and you won't need anything like this.

mattaway

Thanks for the replies so far.

I replaced the thermo. with a Stant. Never had a problem with them before, but that doesn't mean anything.

This morning the truck started up fine on it's own, but the temp rose up to about 3/4 and then quickly dropped back down to a 1/4. Which makes me think it's the thermostat.

My clutch fan does have some (by some I mean alot) play in it, but it feels to pull plenty of air. If you stick out hand infront of the radiator/condenser you can feel the air being sucked through. And if you stick your hand on the other side of the fan, you can feel the air back past the A/C mess of wires/switches that run across the valve cover.

I'll do some testing this weekend and see what I can find.

I have 2 electric fans from a late 90s model Taurus in the garage that are meant to go on my V8/sas S10 that I'm building. But I'm thinking about taking the clutch fan off and running the electric fan... Not sure yet.

yayfortrees

The electric fan could be a very viable option, but if you don't do that, I would for sure replace the fan clutch. They are cheap, and super easy to replace. Never underestimate the importance of a good fan clutch. They are ESSENTIAL! A bad fan clutch can single handedly fail an otherwise perfect cooling system.

A good fan clutch should give a lot of resistance to spinning by hand, to the point that it won't free spin at all. If you give a push, it will resist the entire time and stop as soon as you stop pushing it.

You're thermostat is probably just fine. Stant is a pretty good name last time I heard, and it shouldn't give you any troubles. The only reason I mentioned that is another member on here was having problems with some autozone special thermostat.

I just scrapped my old fan clutch, otherwise I would have sent it to you. It was pretty well used, but still had a lot of resistance left in it. Compared to the new one, it felt loose though. I think they are around $30 to $35 bucks, and worth every penny.

yayfortrees

I forgot to ask, did you get anywhere with the battery, etc.?

mattaway

I put a battery tester on it at work and she read 12.48 volts and 480 something CCA out of 525. The battery tested fine. I'm not too good in electrical, wiring a cd player is about the only thing I can do... But I've got a buddy that's pretty good with that kind of stuff so I'll have him give me a hand, just gotta wait til he's got the time.

I was going to run duel elec fans in the S10, but I'm gonna put one in the 'yota. I'm broke and already have everything I need to do the electric fan swap for the 'yota. I can always get another fan for the S10 when the time comes, or switch back to a fan clutch for the 'yota at another time.

NYChopshop

I had a similar cooling system problem. The problem ended up being that my coolant system was building pressure and leaking through every single junction in my cooling system. Telltale pink crusty junk all over the connecting points (I use factory red coolant). I'll start from the solution: I had a busted radiator cap, which in fact regulates the pressure in the system, and the coolant level was getting low and not drawing from my overflow tank which was sitting at the correct level. By the time it got to the point where my temp was going up, a couple inches of radiator fins were exposed at the top and its no wonder my temp was climbing. I'm also looking for a set of factory style hose clamps, not the screw-type. The screw type clamps put tons of pressure in most of the hose, but right under the screw mechanism the hose gets pinched with no pressure. The propperly sized stock clamps provide even pressure 360 degrees around the hose. I also recently (before the problems) installed a dealer-sourced thermostat and nearly every coolant hose was replaced. Including/especially the bypass hose that sprung a leak on me. I'm not sure these are your problems, in fact, I'm pretty sure you have just hit the point where you need to remove that damn fan and clutch and replace them with an electric model. If ever there was a pair of engines that could use a couple-few extra horsepower, its the 22re and 3vze.

There is nearly zero chance your coolant and electrical problems are related. The electrical problem could be any combination of short trips, dirty connections, or defective key-off load devices. You need to check your battery voltage. your Good places to look for current draw is with things like interior lights (as in glove box, etc) that are difficult to see and while they are supposed to be off, dont shut off. I'm pretty sure we don't have a glove box light, but you get the idea. If you want, you can just pull out your battery and drag it in to any pep boys or somesuch and have them hook it up to their tester. This is all easy enough to track down with a multimeter tho if you know where you're looking. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'll try to draw up a couple instructional images for electrical diagnostic tests.

mattaway

I would do that, but I work at the 3rd largest Ford dealership in Florida.. no offense, but Pepboys doesn't compare to the knowledge in the shop I work at. I just don't like bothering the techs, they got enough crap to deal with between friends and neighbors and what not "Hey can you fix my car!" Know what I mean?



My truck doesn't leak any coolant, that was the first thing I looked for. I replaced the cap when I put the new thermo. in a couple months ago. All my hoses are in good shape. No crusty junk on the radiator, water pump, or thermo. housing.

I'm willing to bet the cooling problem is the fan.

NYChopshop

Ditto. I just mention pepboys because they HAVE a battery tester, not because they necessarily know how to use one! hah! I wouldnt let those fools touch my truck with a feather duster... I'm in technical school studying for my ASE certification in collision repair. If you work at a dealership, you should know how to use a multimeter, even if it IS a Ford dealership

mattaway

Hey I don't work there because I like Fords... I'm a Chevy guy.

I bet I could use a multimeter if I took the time to play with one, I just get confused with electrical stuff so I kind of avoid it... It's a bad problem I have.

c0ugar69

i dont know if a chevy guy can handle a multi-meter

NYChopshop

Same here on the chevy deal. "My other Toyota is a Chevy". A 1989 K5 blazer to be precise. If I had to bet the farm on fixing one type of vehicle, ford sells a lot of cars and trucks that will inevitably need massive amounts of repair work... I love my bowties and toys, but the good ones rarely see the inside of a shop! hah! If you see a technician under a toyota, call an ambulance. I saw an expedition knuckle shatter when someone so much as popped the tie rod end out. The damn things are always in the shop in my school for fairly significant repair work. At the end of the day, like the song says, I'd rather push a chevy than drive a ford. I cant think of any more lines to bite off.

NYChopshop

True, with seven wires and two fuses to check up on, we never really bothered. With this whole "New GM" organization I've been hearing about on TV, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to figure it out pretty quick...

c0ugar69

I would change out the fan clutch, it will make a big difference if yours is worn out. something must be draining constant on the battery or the battery is just not holding a charge very well. it should be pretty easy to do the amp check sith the multi-meter, well at least for us FORD guys.

yayfortrees

Actually, I really like the new line of Fords. I hate to admit it, but if I had the money to buy a brand new vehicle, it would probably be a 2010 Ford. But since that won't be happening anytime soon, I still love my 20 year old Toyota!

With that being said, as far as I'm concerned, the old sayings still hold true with the Pre-2009 Fords. And personally, I'm tired of working on GM products, nor do I want my next vehicle to be a Government Motors. My first two trucks, and the last two trucks I drove were GM. I had all kinds of problems with them. Not to say my Toyotas have not had some problems, but all of them have been due to really high mileage, and are much easier to work on.

If only Toyota had used hood release cables with metal tips, steel-backed cam chain guides, better manual window regulators, and fan resistor switches that don't burn out, they would really be indestructable!

c0ugar69

i hear ya on the window regulators