Notices
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

On the side of the road again

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 11, 2021 | 01:41 PM
  #21  
2ToyGuy's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 656
From: Chiloquin, OR
The ground between the hoisting hook and the firewall is as vital as heck. That's the ground for the head. The one the spark plugs use. No, bad, intermittent on that ground, the plugs can't spark. Make sure BOTH ends of it are clean, and on bare metal. Make sure the wire is in good shape, no cracks or breaks to the insulation, and it ohms out a dead short, or very close. Anything over about 0.75 ohms, on the lowest scale, replace it. You can make a new one quite easily. Make sure if you do, you use a large enough wire. 12 or 10 GA should be ok. Heat shrink the ends, where the wire is crimped into the o-ring terminals. Use the FIT-300, or meltwall, shrink. It'll fill in the openings, nooks, and crannies, and keep the nastiness floating around in an engine compartment out of the wire.
Also, Make sure the ground between the body and the battery is good. It is usually between the battery negative post, and the body, just forward of the battery, right behind the headlight. Again, good bare metal under both ends, and good resistance of the wire.

There's a ground point for the injectors where the fuel rail bolts to the engine, near the rear of the rail. There are 4 wires crimped into one o-ring. Pretty obvious, pretty distinctive o-ring. The wires for that ground are known to become loose in the crimp, preventing the injectors from pulsing. Could it be that when you you "jiggled" under there you jiggled that ground, allowing the injectors to function? Worth a look.
Have you checked the pin on each injector that should go to ground? I don't know right off which one it is, but since there's only two, one of the wires in the injector plugs must go to ground. Measure a pin. No ground, try the other. No ground? Go back to the first, and "jiggle" where you did before. No Ground? Try the other one. See what I mean?

There should be a ground wire between the battery negative post, and the engine block. Direct wire run. It should connect to the AC compressor mount. No AC compressor, it goes to one of the holes in the engine block where the AC compressor mount bolts into the block. Once again, nice and clean under the bolt. That's a place known for a build up of oil, dirt, corrosion, etc. That's where the injectors pick up their ground, in a roundabout way. First to the four-into-one o-ring, then the engine block, then back to the battery.

Here's the pin-out, and correct voltage to be read, for the whole ECU. Hope it helps.



Does any of this help at all?
Pat☺
Reply
Old Apr 11, 2021 | 02:08 PM
  #22  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Grounds

Originally Posted by 2ToyGuy
The ground between the hoisting hook and the firewall is as vital as heck. That's the ground for the head. The one the spark plugs use. No, bad, intermittent on that ground, the plugs can't spark. Make sure BOTH ends of it are clean, and on bare metal. Make sure the wire is in good shape, no cracks or breaks to the insulation, and it ohms out a dead short, or very close. Anything over about 0.75 ohms, on the lowest scale, replace it. You can make a new one quite easily. Make sure if you do, you use a large enough wire. 12 or 10 GA should be ok. Heat shrink the ends, where the wire is crimped into the o-ring terminals. Use the FIT-300, or meltwall, shrink. It'll fill in the openings, nooks, and crannies, and keep the nastiness floating around in an engine compartment out of the wire.
Also, Make sure the ground between the body and the battery is good. It is usually between the battery negative post, and the body, just forward of the battery, right behind the headlight. Again, good bare metal under both ends, and good resistance of the wire.

There's a ground point for the injectors where the fuel rail bolts to the engine, near the rear of the rail. There are 4 wires crimped into one o-ring. Pretty obvious, pretty distinctive o-ring. The wires for that ground are known to become loose in the crimp, preventing the injectors from pulsing. Could it be that when you you "jiggled" under there you jiggled that ground, allowing the injectors to function? Worth a look.
Have you checked the pin on each injector that should go to ground? I don't know right off which one it is, but since there's only two, one of the wires in the injector plugs must go to ground. Measure a pin. No ground, try the other. No ground? Go back to the first, and "jiggle" where you did before. No Ground? Try the other one. See what I mean?

There should be a ground wire between the battery negative post, and the engine block. Direct wire run. It should connect to the AC compressor mount. No AC compressor, it goes to one of the holes in the engine block where the AC compressor mount bolts into the block. Once again, nice and clean under the bolt. That's a place known for a build up of oil, dirt, corrosion, etc. That's where the injectors pick up their ground, in a roundabout way. First to the four-into-one o-ring, then the engine block, then back to the battery.

Here's the pin-out, and correct voltage to be read, for the whole ECU. Hope it helps.



Does any of this help at all?
Pat☺
wow pat you know where it’s at and I will get on this now. I was not aware of the 4 wire grinds but will seek it out. All the others I have addressed with the exception of cleaning the firewall connection.
enginelight throws a code 1
do tell all is well
I checked continuity and voltage on the injectors but not ground.
should I go from engine ground or beg on battery to the injector? Not sure on that.
I am currently checking 10 and 20 to eo1 and 2 jumped for voltage which I think I understand correctly that they are the grounds that go to the connection on the rear of intake
recently did a head gasket and do not recall the 4 wire unless this is the one you are referring to which I think you are
thank you big time
Reply
Old Apr 11, 2021 | 03:50 PM
  #23  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Jef Free
wow pat you know where it’s at and I will get on this now. I was not aware of the 4 wire grinds but will seek it out. All the others I have addressed with the exception of cleaning the firewall connection.
enginelight throws a code 1
do tell all is well
I checked continuity and voltage on the injectors but not ground.
should I go from engine ground or beg on battery to the injector? Not sure on that.
I am currently checking 10 and 20 to eo1 and 2 jumped for voltage which I think I understand correctly that they are the grounds that go to the connection on the rear of intake
recently did a head gasket and do not recall the 4 wire unless this is the one you are referring to which I think you are
thank you big time

all grounds now in excellent shape. Resistance on the firewall one was 0
my meter has only one setting for ohms which is 200 and the continuity is a2000
all injectors have 12 volts and from the beg side continuity to ecm and to ground but I do not know how to check the ground and measure on those.
The e01 to 10 and e02 to 20 both have voltage
I have not tried to start it yet but have a good feeling cause I don’t like having bad ones. Let’s say it does not start. Should I then look at the ne
Reply
Old Apr 11, 2021 | 04:03 PM
  #24  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Pissed frustrated and sick of the scenery here in the parking lot

Nope no start no fire even with a shot of starting fluid
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 10:06 AM
  #25  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
New day be hope

Originally Posted by Jef Free
Nope no start no fire even with a shot of starting fluid
hello
I have 2.5 ohms of resistance at injectors and with ignition on I have 12 volts at both terminals on the harness?
Here’sa golden nugget I have. 10 miles down the road I have established a friendship with a man, Marcos who has a back yard with roughly 8 to 10 80s Toyota pickups and various other stuff related. Amy how I am hopeful and at the same time doubtful that it is the ecu but want to eliminate it with verification so Marcos is going to loan me a ecu
I still have not verified good ground to injectors because I do not know how to do that. Is it simple as setting meter to 200 ohms setting and then touch ground with other probe on the neg side of terminal. Problem is if I have 12 volts at both how do I know which is negative
thank you
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 10:50 AM
  #26  
millball's Avatar
Registered User
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 681
From: Southern Arizona
Injectors always have power and intermittent ground is made thru the ECU.

That grounding is what pulses the injectors. Injectors 'batch fire' That is, they all spray at the same time.

Last edited by millball; Apr 12, 2021 at 10:56 AM.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 01:37 PM
  #27  
2ToyGuy's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 656
From: Chiloquin, OR
I'll be darned. As usual, I'm wrong. I apologize.

Just wondering, then, what that 4-into-1 o-ring ground is for? The one with the 4 wires all crimped into the o-ring, and bolted where the TB meets the intake manifold?
I really thought that was for the injectors. Obviously, I'm wrong. I'm just curious now, what that's for?

Thanks for setting me straight, btw. If I'm not real careful, I can learn something new every day...
Have fun, all!
Pat☺
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 02:03 PM
  #28  
millball's Avatar
Registered User
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 681
From: Southern Arizona
Here is a thread that contains a simple injector wiring schematic.....22re died warming up - YotaTech Forums

Not sure what that multiple splice grounding goes to; but it ain't the injectors.

Last edited by millball; Apr 12, 2021 at 02:49 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 02:50 PM
  #29  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by millball
Here is a thread that contains a simple injector wiring schematic.....22re died warming up - YotaTech Forums
thank you
how do I check ground on injector plugs if they are both hot, with off I just realized but how do I prove and what settings?
If be ecu does not fix should I pursue the be signal
FYI probably off no significance but the tps that I probed for ˟˟˟˟s and giggles read 165 of resistance from pin 1 e2 and pin 4 vcc
and pat if the 4 wires that ground on intake what else could they be
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 03:25 PM
  #30  
millball's Avatar
Registered User
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 681
From: Southern Arizona
You cannot check ground on injector plugs. Pretty sure it is right that you should find 12 volts on both sides of each injector.

a 'Noid' light plugged into one of the injector harness plugs would show if the injectors are being pulsed when the engine is cranked.

That light would light when the ECU grounds the injector harness.

Last edited by millball; Apr 12, 2021 at 03:28 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 03:51 PM
  #31  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Annoyed with the noid

Thanks for replying
I have a noid light and have not used it in a couple days because there was no pulse on Friday and not much has changed with exception of all my grounds being cleaned and Soliniud resistor checked but still have a no fire or start. I just did a 200 ohm setting on the two most accessible injectors wires 1 and 4 and one probe in the connector other to battery ground it looks like 8.5 Does that sound exceedingly high. The reason I say looks like is because the screen on the digital display is broken up and I have to decipher it. Here I have 3 volt meters and I do not trust any of them. The one with the fuel gauge regulator kit will not read anything the other says nothing and the thurd has a bad screen
guy Harley just stopped knew what he was talking about but in a hurry. I’ve checked timing but he suggested to put my finger over cylinder 1 and hold plug so that the puff and the shock confirms I am not 180 out Ok gonna go have a couple drinks first. But highly unlikely I would say. What would make my thinking jump lime that
. Leaning more and more towards crank sensor or what ever be is on board. That is my next exploration
thank you
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 04:00 PM
  #32  
2ToyGuy's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 656
From: Chiloquin, OR
I don't know right off, but you can betcher burrow (don't loose your ass! ) I'm gonna dig in there and find out. Just gimme a few days or so. I work slower these day than I ustacould.
Pat☺
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 04:58 PM
  #33  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Ok pat
i will buy this ecu if it works other than that I will bring it back. He’sa good guy and we have made a friendship which started by buying parts. I guess I do not want any more disappointment today so instead of taking 5 minutes and plugging it in I choose to go up on the side walk and busk.(French for buskar to search for a spot and then perform your set whatever that is I play harmonica)
I’ll plug the ecu in later it I’m morning even if it is a no start I can handle it
thanks.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 07:03 PM
  #34  
millball's Avatar
Registered User
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 681
From: Southern Arizona
I'm optimistic that an ECU will make it run. Good Luck to you!!!
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2021 | 08:10 PM
  #35  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
thank you for your hope for me
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2021 | 07:11 AM
  #36  
87-4runner's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 414
From: Oklahoma
More hope and good luck, even a couple is prayers headed your way.
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2021 | 07:32 AM
  #37  
Jimkola's Avatar
YT Community Team
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 1,003
Thanks for keeping the thread updated as you go. You're 95% better than most who ask a question, then disappear forever.

It's pretty easy to open up the ecu. It's worth popping the lid and quickly checking the board for signs of issues. They were remarkably solid unless exposed to water, or if someone accidentally shorted. And both those would leave obvious signs.

Last edited by Jimkola; Apr 13, 2021 at 07:34 AM.
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2021 | 07:39 AM
  #38  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Jimkola
Thanks for keeping the thread updated as you go. You're 95% better than most who ask a question, then disappear forever.

It's pretty easy to open up the ecu. It's worth popping the lid and quickly checking the board for signs of issues. They were remarkably solid unless exposed to water, or if someone accidentally shorted. And both those would leave obvious signs.
thanks for the advice.I have not tried the new ecu yet and it sits on the passenger seat. I don’t think it’s it and if it is not than disappointment. I am going to try it soon and will update.
in the meaning I have a resistance of 223 at the signal router connection. If I have read right it should be 130 to 160 so I am out of the ballpark. Gonna try and figure out how to test that at ecu thanks for your prayers
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2021 | 07:41 AM
  #39  
Jef Free's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 65
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Jef Free
thanks for the advice.I have not tried the new ecu yet and it sits on the passenger seat. I don’t think it’s it and if it is not than disappointment. I am going to try it soon and will update.
in the meaning I have a resistance of 223 at the signal router connection. If I have read right it should be 130 to 160 so I am out of the ballpark. Gonna try and figure out how to test that at ecu thanks for your prayers
i have already opened up the ecu and it’simmaculate both from water damage and no signs of burning or shorting.
i purchases it about 6 months ago the old one was severely rusted from water
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2021 | 10:36 AM
  #40  
Jimkola's Avatar
YT Community Team
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 1,003
Be a little careful with Toyota’s electrical specs, especially ohm values. They aren’t always dead accurate. If your meter shows infinity that’s one thing, but simply being out of parameters is another. I can’t tell you how many gauges we had returned to the parts dept because of erroneous info in the FSM.


Last edited by Jimkola; Apr 13, 2021 at 07:22 PM.
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:47 AM.