YotANo0b

hey i gotta 88 p/u 3vze 4X4 n its got 33's on it and what i believe to be a six inch lift. (i bought the truck with it and thats what he said) anyways my right side front tire has got some mean inside tilt to it(it is riding on the inside shoulder and as any idiot knows this ruins the tire if not fixed) the alignment place i went to told me the alignment bolt? was pulled in as far as possible and the alignment couldn't be adjusted.. he then proceeded to point out my bushings which are shot.. c'mon its 22 years old! and said that MAY help? but he doubts it anyways i got back to work(discount tire) and one of my coworkers with a lifted truck figures i may need longer torsion bars? anyways thought id ask on here as i can usually get solid help from the users here. thanks!

yayfortrees

Hahaha. Torsion bars won't do anything for camber.

Check for bent control arms, SUPER worn out ball joints, and/or bent frame. Those worn bushings aren't going to help much, but they should be replaced.

NYChopshop

I'll bet its some kind of damaged part, not a worn bushing. If its that bad, check the control arms for damage, and check the lower control arm mounting locations for shift. If the previous owner decided to take your truck jumping, it can bend those in. Is the left side fine to the eye? take some pictures.

drew303

You my good sir are wrong.

If balljoint spacers are installed, torsion bars directly effect camber. On a stock setup the upper and lower arms are parallel and thus track each other symetrically. So camber stays 0 as the tire travels. With a balljoint spacer the arms are no longer parallel and camber is ONLY 0 at ride height which is the height at which the operator specifies by turning the torsion bars to adjust for the height they desire.

As the tire travels up or down the camber changes.

Imagine the travel as a banana. At the center of the banana the camber is 0 (ride height - stationary) as the wheel travels up the upper arm projects further out than the lower arm so the tire leans out.. vice versa for down travel, tire leans in.

-----

back on topic, theres no such thing as "longer" torsion bars. You can upgrade to "thicker" bars but this only neccessary if you want a higher spring rate. And you'd only want a higher spring rate if you were carrying a larger load.. such as a bigger motor.

Possible problems associated with your tire being out of camber.

Bent frame (i had a bent frame, pass side was fubared. Tire was permanently out of camber). The previous owner had a Rancho bracket lift and that tire was struck by an suv in a parking lot. Rolled the frame in, bent everything.

I ended up swapping the truck to a new (i restored) frame, https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...arning-122175/

Other possibilities are well other bent components. Such as the rear lower A-arm pillars. They are not reinforced and prone to bending inward. I don't remember the measurement (between the two rear pillars) but its somewhere in the 16.5-17" ballpark. but dont quote me on that, find out for sure. I'm no longer IFS so i really dont care anymore LOL That headache is gone.

If you DO have balljoint spacers installed, which is perfectly acceptable on any bracket lift. Then revert back to what i already said about the torsion bars.

You can turn the bars so far that camber can no longer be adjusted to 0 (and again this is 0 only at stationary height on a level surface) by the cam bolts on the lower A-arm. You simply run out of range to adjust with on the cam bolts.

Goodluck!

yoder519

good posting ^^^^^

i agree with Drew, your T bars are probably cranked all the way up. i used to have mine cranked up to lift 1.5in and had 1.5in BJ spacers and it was super hard to align. no tsure on why your tire is like that though.

yayfortrees

I should have chosen my words more wisely, so thanks for keeping me in line.

I see what you're saying about the camber and ride height, I was mostly implying that: 1. longer torsion bars aren't an option, like you said; and 2. replacing them isn't going to change anything if the ride height is the same. You said all of this much more clearly and with a lot more detail.

Really, it's the ride height that is messing with the camber, not the torsion bars, even though the t-bars are used to set the ride height. Is that statement correct, or am I still off?

Anyway, thanks for the info. That's good stuff.

desertcamper67

Bracket lifts are like adding a swing set in to your suspension. Weaker than stock and definately more suseptable to bending due to the extra leverage.

YotANo0b

i am always impressed with the amount of helpful information i receive on here! all the alignment shops had to offer was a +$400 bushing job lol.. in tommorows light I will be checking out the suspension components for any bends and everything you guys said.. (and it is ONLY my right side) should i find nothing i am sure i will be back on here a.s.a.p. to ask how to check the torsion bars.. sounds like a headache but worth it if i can get my tire straight.. tires in my size arent cheap

desertcamper67

Lay down in front of or under your front end. Have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth from about 10 to 2 o'clock. You should be able to spot anything that is worn and moving where it shouldn't. Look at where the control arms connect to the frame but since you probably have the drop bracket lift you should look there where the bracketry connects to the frame and where the lower control arms connect to the brackets. Also, if you have a good eye for it you may be able to see something bent.

YotANo0b

it looks to me as though the right side suspension setup's ball joint is broken.. i am no expert but it does look different than the left side ball joint. i will take pics tommorow and post.. i can't tell if its a spacer or not.. could a replacement ball joint cause this?

peow130

Jack up the side of the truck with the issues..
See if you can rock the tire from top to bottom and if the camber changes then maybe it's your wheel bearuings or ball joints.

drew303

Well, the torsion bars only effect camber when you're using bj spacers because of that banana analogy i used earlier. The suspension travels in a half moon. So you really want to find the center of the travel and put your "ride height" there then adjust for alignment. Caster/Camber.

Besides if you turn the torsions up to gain height, you're limiting your up-travel which decreases the efficiency of the whole setup. The tire will always fall as far down as it can go regarldess of where you've "turned" the torsions to get a ride hieght, but up travel will change. The extra inch of ground clearance under the crossmember isn't worth the loss in wheel travel (which effects ride quality) and offroad performance and makes it harder to align.

peow130

I think you mean down travel, right?
Think about it.
You crank your Tbars to lift the truck. You're just angling the control arms down.
You get them closer to the droop stup.
You get more up travel though, because your control arm is farther away from the upper control.
your amount of travel doesnt change though..

yayfortrees

Thanks peow130. You're right, it almost completely eliminates any down travel your truck is supposed to have. The FabTech instructions for their upper control arm kit tells you to crank the t-bars until you have about 3/8" clearance between the UCA and the bump stop. Probably why they stopped making that kit not too long ago. They finally realized it's NOT a good idea, or a good way to lift a truck.

TwistedToys707

tightening torsion bars limits your up travel or droop. i have tightened the out of mine before haha and in my experience it killed every little bit of upward travel i had. by angling the control arms downward when tightening you are taking away from the total amount of travel, the suspension will only hang down as far as those teeny tiny bumpstops underneath the uca. so the space between this bumpstop and the uca determines the amount of droop you will have. 3/8 sounds a bit tight.