Goathead666

Just bought an '88 4x4 pickup with the 3.0 in her 172k original on it, great deal but rough idling, seems to be misfiring. Took it to the mechanic this morning for a diagnostic, compression and what not. He said before digging into it that they're notorious for being rough on valves. From what i understand a valve job can be as much as 1500 bucks.
Question is what is included in a valve job and is there a shop in San Diego that could be recommended if in fact it's needed? Would that be considered a rebuild after it was done?

Thanks, Rick

scuba

A valve job would take a good mechanic an hour...
all that would be would be adjusting them..
So no, that would not be considered a rebuild.

I havent had any work done around here, nor do I know of anyone down is SD...

stagger_lee

I don't know about $1500 for a valve job, sounds a bit outrageous. I just found this on craiglist though:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/983379500.html

Heres the same guy, says he delivers to San Diego twice a week.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/ssd/pts/983387711.html

abecedarian

Done properly- a valve job would be:
remove and replace head(s) from engine, including replacing associated gaskets and timing components (belt, chain, etc)
remove all valve seats, valves, seals and retainers
pressure test the head
replace all valve seats, valves, seals and retainers
3-angle seat and valve grind
proper valve lapping
and if cam(s) are included, install cams and set clearances, otherwise that's for the owner to do

1500 still sound like too much, parts included?

Goathead666

I'm guessing he meant if the valves were burnt or destroyed somehow.

Any idea what it would or should cost to install one of those rebuilt engines assuming all the nesessary external equipment is in place and working properly?

stagger_lee

I don't think it would cost more then $500 - $700 if all parts are there. I googled anywhere from 10-18 hrs labor. Multiply that by the shop labor rate. I just threw that out there, because $1500 for a valve job, (yes Abe I think its still about $300 overpriced), or get a rebuilt for a $1K plus labor to install, you would be pretty close to that and have a 0 mile motor. Makes more sense to me, as long its a good rebuild. Do just the valve train and timing, and you will still have a bottom end with 172K miles on it.

I would ask lots of questions though about the rebuilt, as far as parts used, were the cylinders bored or just honed, miles on motors before rebuild, warranty, etc. Get everything in writing.

edit: Sorry Abe I forgot he is talking about a V6, 2 heads , still seems like the expensive route. I have seen rebuilt and new heads for 250 - 300 x 2 = $500 - $600. I guess I don't think about the labor costs because I do most everything myself. I cant justify spending $60 - $90 an hour. I'll figure it out before that happens.

Goathead666

That's not too bad, so I'd be looking at about 1700 smacks to have a rebuilt one installed...

I'm still waiting on the diagnosis from the mechanic, I'm hoping it's just some clogged injectors and maybe corroded distributor cap contacts and spark plugs, if I were more mechanically inclined I would hope to not be at the mercy of a mechanic but such is life, at least he's very reputable..

Goathead666

Well just got off the phone with the mechanic, he said the engine had low compression in cylinder #3 50lbs and there was a slight knock in the bottom end. Then he tells me he can have it rebuilt with new heads for 3k and about 1200 to install it with new hoses and what not.... Is he out of his friggin mind? So he said worse case 4k for a rebuilt installed engine. He said if I brought him the long block he'd charge me 1200 smacks to install it plus "whatever" he came across that it needed.....

Now I've come to the realization that i will need the motor rebuilt or to purchase one and have it installed. Sorry for the newb questions but I need to get it taken care of because I'm freezing my a** off riding my motorcycle to work in the mornings.

I know I already asked but is there somewhere in San Diego that specializes in Toyota engine installs on these trucks at reasonable prices and is the craigslist ad listed above a reputable engine reseller?

stagger_lee

$1700, now it all depends on labor rate. I did 10-18 hours at $50 - $75 which is on the cheaper side of things and 10-18 was on a quick google search. Could be more. $1200 aint too bad if he replaces everything else it needs for that cost while he's at it, and his labor rate is probably closer to $80 - $90. $2200...not too hard to swallow. I would call around and get some 2nd opinions, but if he's close and cool, I might just go with that. Make sure and ask the engine guy if you need to give him the core. That could be a few extra bucks shelled out until your boy pulls the old motor. When ever you spend money like that, just don't forget to ask lots of questions and get everything in writing. I you feel uncomfortable about something don't go through with it.

Another thing, sometimes there are garage mechanics on craigslist, or maybe even some jockeys on here that you could con into dropping the new motor in for/with you, in your driveway, for significantly less $$. There's a retired Toyota tech up the street from me that only charges $45 an hour. Bring him some Jack Daniels and some cigarettes an he forgets how many hours he worked.

Welcome brother! At least you didn't come in here asking if you can fit 33" tires stock, or what lift to get.

scuba

If you can go to lower east La, (West covina) My mechanic up there specializes in japanese vehicles, fair prices and whatnot.
Cost us 1200 to get one motor ripped out from our wrecked truck, put into my (then) straight body truck...

If you want I can get his number for you..

stagger_lee

Lots of good shwindles up in east LA, thats for sure.

Goathead666

Well it looks like i'm going to do the long block drop in, just a matter of finding the right place to purchase it from and i'm going to call around to see if I can find a mechanic that may do it a bit cheaper, if i could get everything installed for 2k that'd be sweet....

As always if anybody comes up with any ideas, shoot them over to me as I'm pretty new to this and would like to get it right from the start. Might as well replace the clutch as well, right? Any suggestions?

Rick

abecedarian

I'd like to see a mechanic charge 10-18 hours for labor, unless the rate is 60+ an hour... that's barely enough to cover wages on a decent mechanic much less shop time. Not to mention a full set of valves, springs, seals, retainers and seats can run upwards of 300 dollars.... Keep in mind that you're not just paying for the guy to work on it but also for electricity to run the air tools and hydraulic lifts, etc.... I get that the 'book rates' are for pieces of work and don't necessarily reflect work that can be done in parallel and are marked up so don't bring it up.
I'd also figure in the extent of the warranty provided with the work done. If it's 3 months and only covers labor and not parts then meh- 1500 is high. If it's one year... that's not so bad, provided it is fully covered. If it's 50,000 miles no questions asked and it's fixed then by all means it's worth it in my opinion.
A lot of variables involved to just speculate whether the price is excessive or not.
By the same token, buying an engine from a rebuilder and having a different mechanic install it is a gamble as well. The rebuilder may give you a 3 year / unlimited mileage warranty but you're gonna pay the mechanic whatever his rate was, in this case 1200 to R&R the engine, EVERY TIME the engine has to come out. So if the engine blows twice, you're out the initial cost of the engine + 2400 to the mechanic to R&R it twice... and you're almost up to what the mechanic wants to charge you for him to rebuild it... not to mention the hassle you'll go through getting the rebuilder to honor their end of the warranty since they'll claim it was installed wrong, tune-ups weren't done, you used the wrong oil or gasoline....

... see why a lot of us do our own work?....

Sorry, I'm half-venting at issues I've encountered before having work done by others, but I'm sure you can see how this is a difficult decision for you to make.

stagger_lee

Abe, I hear your vents in there, and you bring up a lot of good points I didn't initially think about. I don't even want to think about dealing with mechanics. Again I just googled hours real quick, and passed on my findings. Goat - take into consideration everything that comes out of Abe's mouth, if anyone knows what their talking about its this guy^^^.

Goathead666

It's a very difficult decision for me to make especially since I just bought the truck Monday night and drove it down from LA, I'm really happy with it and want to keep it. I purchased it from the original owner, it's never been in an accident and the body and chassis are cherry, except for faded paint, it was just used to commute with. I paid 1450 for the truck and don't mind putting another 2k into her assuming I'd get another 100k out of the new motor installed. I see what you're saying as far as mechanics shop charges, I just need weigh out what I can sacrafice to get her up to a reliable vehicle without breaking the bank on a 21 year old vehicle....

Now I can always have a second opinion done on it. It's hard starting and idles a bit rough but runs down the road just fine at 65-70 mph, is it possible that the low compression he's reading is just from a sticking or burnt valve and not from worn rings etc.etc..... But there's a certain point when I have to stop throwing away the 50 to 75 dollar "diagnostic" fee and buck up to replace the engine. I mean I'm not sure he did much more than pull a plug and crank it over but i'm not a mechanic so it's hard to say...

stagger_lee

Let me just say I used to own a 93 4runner 3.0, and it started running rough right before I blew a head gasket, warped the head and ended up replacing the motor anyway. Same situation, idled rough started rough, but ran great on the highway.

I took it to one of those japanese engine shops in LA that put in a used motor with 20 - 40k miles on em and got a warranty. I don't remember what I paid, but but it wasn't much more then $2k. That was before I started doing it myself. look in the pennysaver. I went to K Watanabe Corp, I believe. I got 100k out of that motor before I sold it.

abecedarian

thanks stagger_lee for the compliment... but let me be (hopefully) the first to say I do not know everything... nor really a lot. I am opinionated and like to have a drink now and then... when I'm sober. I may have an insight here and there but if I'm wrong, I am wrong. I don't have a 3vze/v6 to wrench on. I don't do transmissions if I don't have to.

But...
Goathead666... let me ask you this:
The mechanic said you have low compression in one cylinder, no? What were the compression readings on the other cylinders? Did the mechanic perform a leak-down test to verify intake, exhaust, rings or headgaskets? A mal-adjusted intake or exhaust valve could cause low compression as bad or worse than worn rings.

scuba

I havent seen anyone suggest calling the dealer and seeing if the HG recall has been done...

abecedarian

No one suggested a blown head gasket as the cause til you just mentioned it.

... the force is strong with scuba-wan-blome.

Goathead666

I called Toyota with a # provided on this site today and they said that my truck given the VIN# wasn't affected by any of the HG problems, seems like it was '90 on. I'm going to pick up the truck in the morning and have a chat with the mechanic as to what he did and the results of the test. I mean there's only so much you can do for a 75 dollar diagnostic right? My fingers are crossed and maybe taking it somewhere else will yeild a different opinion.

Stagger, I like that idea of the used engine as well, thank you I'll check my pennysaver tonight. So basically you drop the truck off and they take out your engine and slam in a used one from a wreck and you drive off? Man if it weren't for me finding this website and helpful people like yourselves I'd be totally F'd.....

Assuming leaking headgasket, a valve rework would set me back about a g for the proper parts and machining??????