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The extremely orthodox purists, the ones who have delusions of grandeur or prissy motorhead values would probably hate the zuk mod, even more if they're in strong platonic love with their always waxed garage queen vehicles that receive more attention than their family members, but it's a understandable solution in case the truck owner can't afford the best option at the moment. It's possible to install a zuk mod, no cut no weld, the truck doesn't lose any value that way, it's safe, it passes the anual technical inspections, it's cheap, reversible and it does the job.
OP, you'll find threads about both possibilities in the forum, they're very well documented, you can even have SAS threads... imagine the reactions of the drama queens if you decide to go that way!
Well, it seems you're leaning on lifting a bit....
Safety is important, so I hear what beef tits (the name sounds awesome) is saying. And you are definitely on point with fixing that first and foremost. You got front brakes already. Tire tread still good? With worn shocks, the vehicle's braking ability is reduced and can interfere with traction in high speed conditions as the shocks lose control of handling vertical movements after hitting uneven road surfaces. And if panic braking, worn front shocks make rear wheel lockup more probable.
Stock replacements sometimes isnt the most economically feasible. OEM deals do exist depending on where you look online. But they also phase out, leaving you with aftermarket unless you find a salvage replacement with low mileage.
So those who really know their way through mods and upgrades are helpful to learn and see what could be done.
But in the end, you are the one who will make the call. All anyone can give is advice with a little opinion.
I think while there certainly has been two views to the question, we have to keep in mind our opinions on our yotas is out of the question. Its about the OP's. Start a new thread is the best COA.
But awesome pictures to go
Yeah my concern is for a reliable ride, safety and correct operation of the vehicle. I just replaced axles, I saw how they work, and I wouldn't want to change the angle range at which they're meant to operate. The clearance on these trucks and the stock off-road capabilities are all i'll even need from it. And I want it to drive safe in the city. But I don't want to spend thousands on suspension.
That's why my original question was "how do i restore the ride quality to stock" and if what aftermarket stock parts are good for that? From what I've gathered now, I can settle for bilsteins 4600 for stock ride and long lasting shocks
As for the springs, yes, I think i will go that route over the zuk if y'all say the zuk doesn't feel the way the truck should. Does anybody have any source for a quality but not break-the-wallet stock heigh leaf springs? I'm having a hard time finding anything that isn't for lifts
Originally Posted by beef tits
Agreed, do what you want to your truck. It's your money and your liability if you cause a collision. But people are also allowed to think you're an idiot for stacking coil springs on top of leaf springs instead of just getting the correct leaf springs / overload springs for your application; Whether that is lifted, stock, whatever. If you're going to post on a forum to promote said controversial modification to people asking for help, be prepared for others to point that fact out.
My 4Runner is a stock garage queen, I drive it around town and never take it off-roading, but to me it's more of a collectible and nostalgic ride. Modifications only lower the value and make it look juvenile. If I want fast/useful/pulling power/mountain handling/offroad capability/more MPG, I have other vehicles that are superior in every category. Trying to make more power out of a 22RE is a huge waste of time and effort to me. A simple $160 tune chip on my Ford adds more power than the 22RE even makes in total from the factory. If my springs start to "sag" I'll replace them with new, OEM spec springs like any other reasonable human with "stock ride" goals would.
Same sentiment, man. except for the offroading part. I want this car to do what it was intended to do in 1986, surf trips down to baja and up to yosemite. I will have to change the interior some because a lot of little things are failing and that I wouldn't know how to replace. Like all the int plastic panels are just crumbling of falling apart. The rear window button is cracked / doesn't work. etc. There's a lot of noise of things giggling in the back. On the outside she's all stock and a bit beat up, but the OG paint job with unique decals. I don't want to lift it, and I don't want to change anything to make it trashy. It's a long term rolling project, so for now I'm more concerned with making it run the way it should.
By the way beef tits I'm neither a dummy or an idiot... and i try to be fair and treat people with respect...
Yes.
As far as sources, I dont know...pretty sure aftermarket options exist that keep to OE specifications. Just peruse away on parts vendors. Once you have an idea on what, then check ebay or Amazon for price comparisons...
There is the salvage yard online. Some put down how many miles on the parts, but exposure to the elements...
I'm assuming Toyota stopped production.
Out of curiosity, I searched up that Zuk mod and its listed on YT under off-road enhancements, which legally makes sense.
Have fun and be safe! It looks challenging but once you're into it, not as hard. Hopefully you get the misfire taken care of too, later on.
...12' 125lb black magic springs are the common choice for stock ride height and comfortable ride... I used the ZUK mod on this 87 4 runner about 20 years ago and she's still sitting level...
My truck had saggy rear. I could not do this one particular intersection at maximum legal speed because of the rough ride.
I used $70 on 12-inch, 125-lb/inch Black Magic springs.
Since 2012, while owners of overly-built "overland" trucks were stuck at the office - LOL! - My $70 Zuk Mod has flawlessly taken me to...
PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY / BIG SUR
KAYAK CAMP, TOMALES BAY / POINT REYES, CA
OVERLOOKING SAN FRANCISCO BAY FROM, TOMALES BAY / POINT REYES, CA
STANDING ON A CORNER IN WINSLOW, ARIZONA (ROUTE 66)
ROUTE 66
FRANKLIN LAKES, SEQUOIA NATIONAL PARK
DEATH VALLEY UBEHEBE CRATER, RACETRACK PLAYA, HOMESTAKE DRY CAMP, 2018
TEST DRIVING NYHumpinUtah'S TRUCK ... ON MY WAY TO BELOW...
REFLECTION CANYON, GRAND STAIRCASE-ESCALANTE NATIONAL PARK
(No motorized access, 10-mile one-way backpack, no stinking helicopter tours!)
VOLUNTEER WORK TO CLEAN UP LAKE POWELL...
POLAR VORTEX PREPPING FOR MY BIRTHDAY - LOL!
BRRR.... I clutch barefoot. Those footrest and pedals would be cold! LOL!
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 02-15-2019 at 05:08 PM.
I wish we lived closer to each other, would love to do some adventures with you in our rides...
In October 2016 we picked up my friend's RAV4 from New Jersey, to Route 66, passed by my aunt's in Fort Gibson, OK then eventually to So Cal. I did western half from L.A. to Adrian, TX Chritmas of 2016
I have nothing useful to add but this thread is awesome to watch, im mad im late for this party. from your experience level I am guessing your not a very versed mechanic, no offense meant by that but my point is that these old trucks are just that..old trucks. they ride like old trucks, and always will. old trucks have pops and rattles, bounces and jerks. I wont try and assume your experience with older vehicle but it is helpful to keep in mind that its still just a 30 year old yota. I run OME rear spring with their shackles and bushings, and OME front torsions with brand new everything on the front IFS, and it rides pretty damn good for a 1987 Toyota, that suspension is a lift and will run you quite a bit more than 400 bucks. add a leaf packs will only make your ride harsher. the zuk mod was never meant to make a softer ride, just increase the weight carrying load of the runner. as for ol' saggy arse, it is a very real thing. when I bought my 87 it was literally riding on the rear bump stops. as a frame of reference for you, heres my truck. the front includes a 4crawler 1.5' bjs with slightly cranked torsions and the rear is the OME springs with their anti inversion shackels which comes out to roughly 2.5"of lift.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and i love seeing all the adventure pics! I'm in Cali myself, so I'll likely bump into you sooner or later!
Originally Posted by keycw
I have nothing useful to add but this thread is awesome to watch, im mad im late for this party. from your experience level I am guessing your not a very versed mechanic, no offense meant by that but my point is that these old trucks are just that..old trucks. they ride like old trucks, and always will. old trucks have pops and rattles, bounces and jerks. I wont try and assume your experience with older vehicle but it is helpful to keep in mind that its still just a 30 year old yota.
I know it takes an engineer to do math problems but the complex formula for age, if I'm not mistaken, is current year as of the gregorian calendar minus the year of manufacturing according to same calendar, and correct me if i'm wrong, but according to my calculations come out to 2019 - 1986 = 33... yup, so that makes me about 98% sure that this truck is actually 33 years old! Making it a moderately old vehicle compared to something new and practically new compared to something older! Who would've known!
I've worked extensively on 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles for years and have done a few jobs on cars. Suspension theory doesn't carry over very well from bikes to cars, different animal. And I just don't know much about it. BUT on this truck I've already changed brake rotors, calipers, wheel bearings, front axles, timing chain / guides, main front seal, oil pump and water pump. I've already turned a junk truck into my daily driver. A little faith goes a long way. I don't believe a truck really ages, the parts do. A vehicle designed and built in 1986 will run the same as a vehicle designed in 1986 but build in 2019. If you rebuild it or restore it in its entirety, it can ride like it did out of the factory. Of course it'll never ride like a 2019 design. That said, neither of these things are what I want. I was simply asking for opinions on what's essential in smoothening out the ride on these old trucks. Again, age is no excuse for a truck to bottom out under the weight of a toddler on the back. I won't take, 'these are just old trucks' as an answer for that. I know I'm young (but you don't) and I don't mean to come off as a dick, but condescending "hey kid, look" discussions will be met with resistance!
In conclusion, I'm going with 11" 125lb black magic springs for a temporary fix in the rear, bilsteins 4600 all around, and i haven't chosen a steering damper yet, prob go with the Rancho something unless someone has something against it? The zuk seems like a good way of getting a quick fix and keeping my new rear dampers from excessive wear from lack of healthy springs before I manage to replace the springs, which I will do sooner or later. Just not a priority right now, I'm just trying to get steady baja trips come springtime.
Something i haven't gotten much a response about was the question of wobble. There are many factors I've found to cause wobble, and I was asking you guys, with more experience on these trucks, your opinions about it. From what I've gathered, usually, and since i've ruled out axles and wheel bearings, the culprits are idle / pitman arms, tie rod ends, ball joints, sway bar bushings, other bushings? Might even just be the old unevenly worn-out front passenger wheel from having blown cv joints for god knows how long. I'll see where I'm at after new suspension.
There was also a discussion of how suspension stiffness affects braking, which is very interesting and really helpful! Those are the kind of comments I find most useful! those and the ones that make concrete suggestions! Thanks guys!
Usually wobbles and vibrations are caused by rotating parts and assemblies. Often times, ball joints and steering joints don't cause a vibration, but can make a vibration worse if there is a decent amount of play in them.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and i love seeing all the adventure pics! I'm in Cali myself, so I'll likely bump into you sooner or later!
I know it takes an engineer to do math problems but the complex formula for age, if I'm not mistaken, is current year as of the gregorian calendar minus the year of manufacturing according to same calendar, and correct me if i'm wrong, but according to my calculations come out to 2019 - 1986 = 33... yup, so that makes me about 98% sure that this truck is actually 33 years old! Making it a moderately old vehicle compared to something new and practically new compared to something older! Who would've known!
I've worked extensively on 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles for years and have done a few jobs on cars. Suspension theory doesn't carry over very well from bikes to cars, different animal. And I just don't know much about it. BUT on this truck I've already changed brake rotors, calipers, wheel bearings, front axles, timing chain / guides, main front seal, oil pump and water pump. I've already turned a junk truck into my daily driver. A little faith goes a long way. I don't believe a truck really ages, the parts do. A vehicle designed and built in 1986 will run the same as a vehicle designed in 1986 but build in 2019. If you rebuild it or restore it in its entirety, it can ride like it did out of the factory. Of course it'll never ride like a 2019 design. That said, neither of these things are what I want. I was simply asking for opinions on what's essential in smoothening out the ride on these old trucks. Again, age is no excuse for a truck to bottom out under the weight of a toddler on the back. I won't take, 'these are just old trucks' as an answer for that. I know I'm young (but you don't) and I don't mean to come off as a dick, but condescending "hey kid, look" discussions will be met with resistance!
In conclusion, I'm going with 11" 125lb black magic springs for a temporary fix in the rear, bilsteins 4600 all around, and i haven't chosen a steering damper yet, prob go with the Rancho something unless someone has something against it? The zuk seems like a good way of getting a quick fix and keeping my new rear dampers from excessive wear from lack of healthy springs before I manage to replace the springs, which I will do sooner or later. Just not a priority right now, I'm just trying to get steady baja trips come springtime.
Something i haven't gotten much a response about was the question of wobble. There are many factors I've found to cause wobble, and I was asking you guys, with more experience on these trucks, your opinions about it. From what I've gathered, usually, and since i've ruled out axles and wheel bearings, the culprits are idle / pitman arms, tie rod ends, ball joints, sway bar bushings, other bushings? Might even just be the old unevenly worn-out front passenger wheel from having blown cv joints for god knows how long. I'll see where I'm at after new suspension.
There was also a discussion of how suspension stiffness affects braking, which is very interesting and really helpful! Those are the kind of comments I find most useful! those and the ones that make concrete suggestions! Thanks guys!
sorry man, I was basing that off of your statement about a leaf spring being difficult to change. Two bolts and 2 U-bolts doesn’t really constitute a hard job in my book. 30 years was an awesome estimate as I didn’t see a build in your signature. Would be helpful to people in the future if you intend on frequenting this site.
sorry man, I was basing that off of your statement about a leaf spring being difficult to change. Two bolts and 2 U-bolts doesn’t really constitute a hard job in my book. 30 years was an awesome estimate as I didn’t see a build in your signature. Would be helpful to people in the future if you intend on frequenting this site.
apologies man, didn't mean to get mean, I got carried away and went on a rude rant. you're comment was helpful and I shouldn't disrespect.
as for replacing springs, i guess I didn't mean it was difficult, just thought it looked like more of a pain. but i'm sure you're right, the better way is to do it proper.
at the moment though, i'm on a tight budget so i'll start with the zuk (without cutting anything) and put the 4600 shocks and hope it'll make the ride a bit more pleasant and safer. i don't think that's a bad idea on it's own, right?
I think 2 inch lift is cool, and the most I would consider. I don't really see the need for more considering what I want from this truck. But for now I'll settle for stock height. But for the future, can these stock CV axles take a 2 inch lift with no problems? From what I've figured, you that's prety much the only part that strains when you lift a truck like this? You're right I don't have many years experience. this is the first truck i think might last me more than a few months. I did put some work into getting it to run well, so i'll put a bit of money into it. just a little at a time. again apologies
Great discussion...
having done the zuk mod about a week ago on my 87turbo runner with cheapo monroe shocks...
I'd say, I'd do it again in a heart beat... VERY pleased with the result, ride, height, and performance...
having done it on our other 87 several years ago with bilstein 4600 shocks and still rides like the day i did it... I'm satisfied with the results.
apologies man, didn't mean to get mean, I got carried away and went on a rude rant. you're comment was helpful and I shouldn't disrespect.
as for replacing springs, i guess I didn't mean it was difficult, just thought it looked like more of a pain. but i'm sure you're right, the better way is to do it proper.
at the moment though, i'm on a tight budget so i'll start with the zuk (without cutting anything) and put the 4600 shocks and hope it'll make the ride a bit more pleasant and safer. i don't think that's a bad idea on it's own, right?
I think 2 inch lift is cool, and the most I would consider. I don't really see the need for more considering what I want from this truck. But for now I'll settle for stock height. But for the future, can these stock CV axles take a 2 inch lift with no problems? From what I've figured, you that's prety much the only part that strains when you lift a truck like this? You're right I don't have many years experience. this is the first truck i think might last me more than a few months. I did put some work into getting it to run well, so i'll put a bit of money into it. just a little at a time. again apologies
I think youll be happy with your zuk mod setup and new shocks. one of the odd things youll find is that there are not many lift options, inch wise, for these trucks. its either a little or a lot. youll start seeing shocks are like 2" lift or 6" lift. the stock cv's are pretty good on these trucks and can take more abuse than a truck that sees constant engagement of them. the reason most people go with a 2 inch lift is because that's the amount you gain from the OME springs. if you go down the path of the dark side, drop bracket lifts, IMO, you can get much more. im a die hard yota fanatic but most will admit that the stock ride quality is not great. for the coin, that zuk mod and some new shocks will do wonders.
+1 ^^^
Just verify that the shock u get will accommodate the travel with new springs (zuk).
By no-cut, I'm assuming u will use spring with bigger diameter on top to hug the metal bump stop and smaller on bottom to go around the rubber one?
BTW, keycw,
Sexy Truck!
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 02-15-2019 at 08:31 AM.
+1 ^^^
Third gen 4Runner springs I believe, but don't quote me on that.
Yes, I heard of the 1999 springs, tho not sure if front or back nor the height they would give. One time I looked the 1999 has the most clearance of the 3rd gens.
02-10-2019, 12:22 PM
(the name sounds awesome) is saying. And you are definitely on point with fixing that first and foremost. You got front brakes already. Tire tread still good? With worn shocks, the vehicle's braking ability is reduced and can interfere with traction in high speed conditions as the shocks lose control of handling vertical movements after hitting uneven road surfaces. And if panic braking, worn front shocks make rear wheel lockup more probable.
... ON MY WAY TO BELOW...
