Bill

Has anyone evry attempted to replace the torison bars on their 86-95 yota with the stock coil-over shocks from a 95.5+ Taco/4Runner?

Just from what I've looked at thus far(not much), it seems that stock coil-overs are positioned in a very simaler spot to where out shocks are now, so it might require some clearancing or even new upper A-arms, but not brain surgery.

The part that I'm really wondering though is the lower A-arm, how much re-enforcing would it require to accept the load from the spring, seeing that now almost all the weight on the wheels would be on the lower arm. The upper arm would only be for keeping the wheel upright.

Could someone that has a 3rd+ Gen or Taco measure the outside diameter and length of their coilovers for me?

Thoughts?

(for referance this isn't something I'm planning to try, just think it's a neat idea)

AH64ID

Why?

There are some LT kits that use a coilover, not a OEM one.. but a coilover nontheless....

AxleIke

Attempted. No.

But i have done significant research into it. The upper a-arm would need modification, and if you run the 22re, you'd want the front struts off of a 2.7L truck, not the 3.4L, as the 2.7 is relatively close in weight to the 22re.

The trick is in the mounting of the uper A-arm. With the torsion system, there is significant hardware that is in the way of welding the upper mount for a coilover. Youd have to remove all of that, and in doing so, likely have to build new upper a-arm mounts. Also, positioning of the upper coilover mount would be tricky to get the height you want. Bonus is, if you want lift, you can position it exactly at the height you want it at, and run stock struts, which are inexpensive (relatively). The only way i could think of to do this would be sigfinicant tack welding, then breaking the tack welds and re tacking to get height. Pretty tedious.

So, it is possible, but welding and cutting would be required. I'm looking into it, depending on whether or not i decide to keep IFS, or decide to look farther out into a swap.

Bill

Just thinking out loud. I know Total Chaos kits have the ability to be run with coilovers, but they also use 12-14" setups.

I'm pretty much just thinking out loud here, but think about it, what do coils offer over torison bars? More available spring rates, easier to work with, easier to adjust(personally my torson bars are pretty much rusted in place). Might not be practical, but its something to think about.

AxleIke: are you thinking of mounting the struts/CO's to the upper A-arm rather than the lower? I was thinking of using the lower because that's the way 3rd gens mount then, and because the shock mounts are already there. And for the upper A-arm, I was thinking possibly shaving then down to fit the increased diameter and if needed re-boxing them.

As far as which to go with, I wasn't really thinking about that, because you can get aftermarket coils. But yes, for stock rates and valving 22RE would work better with 3RZ coils.

CoedNaked

Unless you're gaining some type of advantage somewhere, I think it is a pointless conversion. YOu're not going to pick up much more, if any wheel travel. There is way too much work involved requiring fabrication & welding skills. You might as well spend the money to upgrade to a Yota (Tacoma or 4runner) with front coils and gain newer/more engine in the process.

If you lower your torsion bars, and leave the stock shocks on, it rides very well up front. Travel ain't bad for IFS, and it's a tough set up that can take abuse. Not as much abuse as a SA for the most part, but it's built well.

Sonofmayhem

so you think coils ride the same as torsion bars? and an easier lift. as said you can set your own lift instead of cranking the t bars or a bracket lift or b.j. spacers.hmmmmmmmm.

AxleIke

No no no, it has to mount to the lower arm. Look at your torsion bar set up, there is a conncting piece that goes between the mounting points on the upper arm. I'm not sure if that piece can simply be removed, or if new mounts need to be fabbed.

The reason that needs to be removed is that you need room for an upper coil mount welded to the frame. The current shock mount is very inadequate for the type of forces the coilover would produce.

The upper arm will need to be shaved. It will be really close to the coils, close enough that i would want it shaved. Don't want that catching.

I want to encourage you to pursue this. I am completely fundless and will remain so for a while, thus preventing me from pursuing this right now. However, i am very intersted, and if you can figure out the logistics, i'd love to see it.

As for why...Why not? For a long time i've been reconsidering doing a solid axle swap. I have a very good friend that ran IFS on extremely difficult trails, and did so for a long time, swapped due to excessive breakage. What i'm getting at is that everyone and their brother seems to be swapping, might be nice to have a built IFS with the stock gear. Probably stand out more than with a SAS now a days. Plus, this is a pretty cheap project. If you go with stock struts, you're looking at 50 bucks in steel, 2-300 in struts, and your time and energy spent making it work. That seems pretty good to me.

AxleIke

sonofmayhem brought up another point, good ride, and get to set your own lift.

deathrunner

Jim at Protrux has already done this to his 88? 4runner. He designed an upper arm and made a hoop to run a 2.5x8 coilover. I think he was getting 10" of travel IIRC.

I don't know what he'd charge for a kit.

Stomis

Personally I dont see the advantage in coilover IFS. Infact I think its got a major disadvantage. My friends taco has 5 times more roll than my truck does and his is lifted 1.5in while mine is up 6in.

slosurfer

IIRC most of your lift is from extremely cranked tbars which will make your front end really stiff. So that is not a good comparison.

CoedNaked

What do you mean when you say you "get to set your own lift?"

How much lift are you talking about? What range?

AxleIke

If you are custom installing a coilover, you can weld the upper coilover mount wherever you want, and can thus have your ride height set at whatever you want. So if you want 2.105 inches of lift, you can theoretically do that with a stock coil w/out spacers.

slosurfer, very well said. Stomis, roll is corrected by stiff springs (torsion bars) which ride like crap, or a decent sway bar. I could give a crap about roll. Simple fix for that is don't drive it like a sports car.

Hows about this. Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea, don't attempt to do this to your truck. Stay off the thread unless you have an actual problem. So, if you know FOR A FACT that the coilover would cause damage, not fit, have geometry issues etc, please let us know. If you think its just a silly idea, why waste your time posting? I for one couldn't care less what you think, but your rambling gets in the way of tech that i'd like to read.

As for ride. Find a member who has a stock first gen 4runner. Get in, ride down a washboard road. Then find someone who has a stock third gen 4runner, drive it down that same bumpy road. I guarantee you that the ride down the very bumpy road will be a hundred fold better in the third gen.

Bill

hmm, well this isn't something I could have time(or money) to afford in the near future, but I've been thinking about doing an SAS this summer. Perhaps if I can scrounge up a used set of coilovers for cheap I'll play around with it before cutting all the IFS stuff off.

As far as the upper A-arm, what might be the easiest solution is to actually cut out a chunk of the arm between the mounting bushing and the ball joint, and replace it with a piece of round tubing. Because the upper A-arm is no longer responcible for transfering the load of the otrsion bars, I think the big bunky box tubing is over kill(look at Total Chaos). Plus because if the box tubing, if you shave it you would have to patch the inside to re-box it it.

...god damn it, I need to stop thinking 3 or 4 projects ahead

woodworth

want to bring this to the top again. I've wanted to do this also and was thinking if you know someone that is going SAS and they have a 3rd gen.
have them cut the strut tower as close to the frame as possible. the upper
CA is connected to the tower, no need to fab a tower or shave the existing
one for more clearance. cut the top of the existing shock tower down to a managable level and either use it for ataching the strut tower or cut it off completely.
my upper CA are completly rusted, I was going to try to replace the bushings
but because of the rust the pivot mount might break or have to be cut off.
plus every things 13yrs old and been in New england all its life. so I'm figuring cost wise it might be cheaper or cost the same as replacing rusted parts.

so hows this sound

Woody

cootees

I found this picture yesterday and it definitely had some wheels turning.


You will notice a few differences in the arms but for the most part the ifs system is very similar. This is on one of the late 80's 4wd yota vans. This coilover shock is just to help support heavier loads and he still uses it in conjunction with his torsion bars... but it definately got my wheels turning.

xcmountain80

Didn't Downey make a kit to do just this?




Aaron

AH64ID

I dont see a CO, just a shock???

xcmountain80

Damn I knew something looked funny, they were supposed to add one to that setup or at least I thought they were. It was in a past issue of T4WDO mag. Well I looked at there website and maybe Im a tard and there is no such thing. "It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and I'm not a big man" (Fletch)

Aaron

91ToyTrck

Deathrunner - What's the link to protrux that this Jim works? There is a .com and a .net site with that name.

Has anyone else done this swap sucessfully? I would be interested to see how it's done. I'm also wondering the Pros and Cons to this type of swap? Would it be much difference then say a stock t-bar setting and bj spacers? I wouldn't think you could go to high without stressing out your CVs just like on a newer Tacoma/4Runner.