ben@g2g

OK, it's my first time posting here. I do equipment and truck maintenance for my buddy's landscape company part time. Pretty much it's all f250-f750 trucks that we have, except for one 94 toyota 4x4 with the 22re, auto regular cab. Has about 145k miles on it, and head gasket and a few valves were put on it about a year ago by another garage.

Truck lost heat in cab, and then over heated. Coolant was added and driven another 30ish miles. With full coolant heat worked, and thermostat seemed to be working correctly. The other kid checked it out and said oil was a little high, but didn't look like there was coolant in it, and it seemed to be dripping around the water pump gasket. They dropped it off at my house, and I changed the water pump, and added coolant. It got up to operating temp, and I took it for a ride. I made it about 500 feet down the road before it lost almost all power and started smoking real bad. Coasted back and mud was pouring out of the dip stick, and oil was leaking out of the exhaust manifold gasket.

I drained the rest of the coolant out of the engine, and drained 3.5 gallons of sludge out of the oil pan. Put fresh oil in it, and ran it long enough to get it out of the garage and parked. Still oil smoke coming out of the exhaust, but seemed to run better. I don't know these trucks/motors at all, but my feelings are it's gonna need more than a head gasket at this point. My buddy at a junk yard just got a truck in with 88k on it that runs like a top, but the body is shot. I can get the motor and any related parts i need for $900. I'm thinking thats my best option right now, any suggestions?

Is there an market for the rebuildable core i'll have left or should I scrap it? Thanks for the input guys.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

check the timing chain and guides. Search for timing chain replacement and how to. You likely have the chain that wore through the cover. If not do a compression check, and check the pressure in the coolant system. Timing chain job for this truck should cost around 250-350 including fluids if that is the actual problem.

ben@g2g

Thanks I'll check that out. Is it possible that the block/heads are still ok after having all that sludge in them?

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

yes very possible but you will need to clean/flush the motor with a couple oil changes. here's how i know.
the guy that traded me the truck assumed the head gasket was gone. not the case. The timing chain needed to be serviced for some time then wore through the cover. This led to the coolant being pushed into the oil. Not saying this is your case here but would be something to look into before shelling out almost a grand for a motor when the one you have could be fixed cheaper. This is on my daily driver and the little truck runs like a top now.

ben@g2g

Good to know. I found out the engine was replaced about 50k miles ago with a brand new long block. I checked out some write ups on fixing the timing chain issue, and it's recommended to pull the oil pain, and head to get the timing cover to seal? This engine already has a really bad oil pan leak, we've been putting that off since we need to pull the motor to change it. So sounds like I'll need to pull the motor, replace timing parts, oil pan gasket, and maybe head gasket at the least.

I'm going to get a compression tester early this week hopefully, and if that looks good then pull the valve cover and see what the guides look like on timing chain.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

you can leave the head on if you're just doing the timing chain and oil pan.

ben@g2g

OK cool. This truck also sounded a little like a diesel for the year i've been around it.(like marbels banging around inside). Is that normal for this little motor to be that noisy? It's got and open k&n filter intake, and headers if that makes a difference.

87Roxanne

you sure can leave the head to do a timing cover, but to get a better seal between the head and the timing cover it is recomended to remove the head. Be careful pulling the old timing cover as it can rip most of the head gasket part that seals around the timing chain passage on the top. Also i did mine a few years back, an had plenty of room by pulling the radiator ( 10 mins after fluids gone). ENgnbldr.com has great timing chain kits and head bolts. Make sure you torque the chain tensioner to 15 pounds (if my memory is still good), but double check. if over torqued, it will leak oil and not be able to tension the chain well in cold starts.

87Roxanne

the marbles are bprobable the chain slapping around the timing cover.... meaning the chain guide is probably shattered as well. Good thing to clean the pan and the pickup screen.

ben@g2g

Finally got an update!

Checked out junkyard engine. It's nice and dry, just old looking. It's in a 91 2wd 5speed, so I think i'd need to change the pan and dip stick tube since I got a 4x4. Well taken care of, truck has 89k miles and window sticker shows oil change due at 91k. Inspection just ran out on it. Older guy and couldn't get it to pass because of rust.

Anyway, onto the original engine. Pulled it in today, and did a compression test twice to be sure. Here are the results

174 - 174
176 - 175
185 - 185
180 - 179

Seems as though the guage is pretty consistent. There was oil on all plugs, and when I ran the truck to pull it in it was still smoking a lot. Dripping mostly condensation out of the exhaust with a tiny bit of oil. I'd imagine there is still some oil left in places it shouldn't be from when the issue happened. You can see in this picture where it looks like oil was leaking out of the exhaust manifold gasket. I'm guessing that the cat and o2 may be fried too.

So would you assume the head, lower end, and head gasket are ok from those compression numbers? I'm about to pull the VC to see how the timing guides look.

ben@g2g

ben@g2g

OK, got the valve cover off. Chain seems really loose on the driver's side, but damper is still there. There are some marks in the cover I can see from the chain, but it looks like that was from a previous time, as the damper is over them now. Is there somewhere else water could be leaking into the oil besides TC Cover, or head gasket? I'd think the compression numbers would say the HG is good, but I guess there is still always a chance. Here are some pics. I guess next course of action is to pull TC cover and oil pan, and do some more inspecting.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

oil looks like it's from the valve cover. Compression numbers don't look too bad. Check the timing chain guides. I still think that is your problem.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

Well the guide is still there isn't it. With that i would start looking into the head gasket and timing chain job. The other way to check (the way i did it) would be to pressurize the cooling system and find where the coolant is leaking into the oil. You should be able to rent or barrow the kit from an auto parts store. This would be my final check before you go swapping engines or changing head gaskets.

ben@g2g

Yeah it's still there. It's not attached at the top, but it doesn't look like it should be. Does that tool just connect to rad cap, and to an air compressor? Then I just listen or look in timing cover and see if I can hear air leaking? How would I determine head gasket? Hear it through valves or spark plug holes?

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

The tool that i have to pressure test the cooling system has a pump and gauge. It is attached at the radiator cap. Do not over pressurize the cooling system.18-20 lbs if i recall correctly. If it is the head gasket that is leaking listen with a stethoscope near each one of the spark plug holes with the plug removed. You can also rotate the engine by hand to see if there is any coolant leaking into the cylinder as well. Was any of the spark plugs really clean or smelled of coolant? If it is the timing chain cover look and listen for coolant bubbling through. post up your findings.

ben@g2g

Cool, gotta run some errands and I'll try to pick up a pressure tester. Thanks for the info. Should have some more results later this afternoon.

ben@g2g

Borrowed a tester from the garage I usually go to for inspections. It's coming from somewhere in the timing chain area, so either a cracked block, or cracked TC cover I guess. Time to start tearing it off after I return this.

ben@g2g

Is the general concensus to just use RTV for the oil pan gasket rather than the cork rubber replacement?

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

toyota fipg. or rtv will do.