shoes138

I was trying to find out if anyone has thought or done a remote turbo on a 3vz? cuz i saw on turbokits.com that they had a turbo kit for the 5vz and it was a remote turbo! And i was wondering if we could possibly do that to the 3vz? well heres a couple of pics of it! i no so far that it will need a oil pump for the return line! and that the w/g like this turbo is way too much of a 90 degree angle thanks to bumpin yota for that clearification!

milowilli

3VZ has a weak head gasket design already..dont think it would be a good idea.

tc

That's been addressed before milowilli - there's tons of threads on here about turboing the 3VZE, but the problem is always where to put the damn thing. I'd like to hear more about this - my engine needs some "altitude compensation" BAD.

chimmike

these are my concerns with boosting the 3vze (taking into account my turbocharging experience)

The 3vze seems pretty prone to knocking and extreme engine bay temps. 93+ octane would be a minimum requirement.

Safe location of the turbo to prevent damage while trailing would be important.

Running piping to the absolutely necessary intercooler would be tricky in the tight engine bay.

Running a filter for the compressor intake to a safe, clean area for the turbo will be extremely important as well.

Lag will be an issue with the low displacement of this vehicle and probably the horrible head flow stock.

It WOULD be possible to mount the turbo where the stock airbox is. Something like a basic T28 or small T3 would be perfect for the displacement, providing excellent power and response, and either would fit in said location. Running exhaust pipign up to the turbine would be tricky but is completely doable ( take a look at my website and see the mounting location of my turbo on my Z........essentially the same idea and there's FAR LESS area in my Z engine bay than the 4runner).

engine management. I guess an Apex'i SAFC would work in terms of leaning out the larger injectors necessary for something like this. Ignition timing dropped a degree or so would be fine, also running 1 or 2 step colder spark plugs and a closer gap (even though .031" is pretty close stock).

Oil feed/pressure to the turbo would be an issue, in my opinion. I don't think the stock oil pump is very strong in the 3vz. Nissport makes an adapter for 1/8" bspt threading (which I THINK toyota might use), but the oil sender is right next to the filter and pretty obvious....also below it is a Hex plug that I THINK might be a location to get an oil feed from.....but again pressure from the stock pump might not be so great.

Fitting an intercooler will be tricky, but ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY considering the extra heat from compression that FI makes. Perhaps a side mount unit with a high-flow radiator fan would help immensely.

It'd require a good bit of custom piping work.....say from www.vrsexhaust.com. Stock exhaust manifolds can be used with a reverse crossover or a flex pipe travelling under the tranny and back to the front of the engine bay right up to the turbo. Again, using a T28 or small T3 would allow use of an internal wastegate, most of which are at 7psi (which I would NOT exceed) and should provide at least 150-160whp, possibly more, on an auto 4runner.

dcg9381

There was a recent 3vz remote turbo done on pirate, with great success, actually... Fuel was done by megasquirt, which was configured as a piggy-back and fired a 7th injector only when into boost.. If I recall correctly AF was at 12:1...

Here's the link: http://www.bandmzcars.com/3vzetONE.html

shoes138

well i have an 2wd pickup, i think it would be pretty quick. The only thing i really dont understand is the whole megasquirt. i hear from some people that i could just run bigger injectors and i would be fine, some say i would need megasquirt, so i have no idea what i should use??

chimmike

if you're not familiar with electronics and engine management, I don't suggest megasquirt.

I'm not a big fan of megasquirt anyways, based on how it's made, its architecture, and the general complexity if you're not familiar with anything like that.

If you run larger injectors, you have to correspond that with a tune of some sort. You can't just throw in more fuel and expect it to run well, ecu's and sensors just aren't built to understand much more than their stock parameters.

As for being 2wd....really....it's not worth turbocharging if you're 2wd and just looking to be faster. Save the money, buy a little honda and slap a turbo on that. It'll be a lot faster and eat a lot less gas, haha.

chimmike

I have done some ghetto engineering in my past, but that right there is some super ghetto engineering! Using rubber hose as couplers (not good, rubber dries, cracks, and splits) and I'm REALLY not fond of him not using an intercooler. He's dumping some hot, HOT compressed air in that engine, which requires even MORE fuel to enrich the mixture and prevent detonation.

The turbo mount is in a good location, however I'd not run the piping through the wheel well like that, and I'd clock the compressor to allow for at least a side mount intercooler with a fan.

dcg9381

I've never assembled megasquirt. Ever. I buy it pre-assembled from people that know what they're doing. I've got an EE degree and it's simply not worth my time or the debug hassle.. There are several vendors that sell it pre-configured between $300-$350. It's still a steal at that price, compared to any stand alone EFI or piggyback.
For piggyback configuration, it's really a very simple install... Ping the guy at my link above - but it's MUCH easier to do MS firing a single injector and not doing timing control than it is to fully integrate it.



You're right about larger injectors - the ECU will compensate for some % of injector increase (think small) in closed loop. In open loop (idle) - it's going to assume the injectors are stock and that may cause some issues.


Regardless of choosing megasquirt, larger injectors, or even another ECU - you need to understand engine tuning, otherwise you've got no business turbocharging in the first place. Turbocharging without adding fuel can be a very expensive lesson, especially on that 3.0 motor...

chimmike

Even better point. This should be inscribed somewhere! lol

my Z runs off a reliable reflash, however I have an innovate wideband in the car full time to monitor a/f and make sure nothing is going funky.......I change the plugs in it every 3 months or so, and use 93 octane or better at all times.

I have tuned SAFC's and emanages before (I hated the emanages though....they're glorified piggybacks that just adjust fuel from stock settings and crap)

dcg9381

Megasquirt is quite capable of being integrated easily, you have to understand what you need and how to configure it (software) of course...
I'd recommend a wideband also - I use the innovate LC-1...

I haven't heard of much success integrating piggybacks with the 3.0 or 2.4 Toyota EFI, mainly due to non-standard signals out of the factory AFM.

I don't see what the problem is in regard to not using an intercooler.. An intercooler is necessary when you've got a high intake temperature. He's running low to moderate boost and as such probably a very low intake temperature compared to a turbo that does 14+ psi or better... As I recommend with the 22RTE trucks (7-8psi) - there are better things to do over intercooling... at least until you know if you've got intake air temp issues.


Ghetto? By far - my favorite ghetto turbo of all times:

chimmike

regardless, if he's running 7psi, that's too much heat for the intake.

options better than an intercooler? like what? meth injection? That runs out. An intercooler is the cheapest, best insurance to prevent possible detonation. It's safer than running extra rich causing unburnt fuel to ignite in the turbo, and it's safer than running meth injection. High intake temperatures raise the temps of all other fluids....oil, coolant, even power steering fluid indirectly, and definitely tranny fluid because of the extra load. Using an intercooler is just smart. Even a small one with a fan.

IMO, if you're running more than 5psi on a motor not BUILT for turbo, and you're not running an intercooler, that's very irresponsible and waiting for a catastrophic failure of some sort.

shoes138

so what do you guys suggest i should do! cuz i was gonna run a remote turbo with a intercooler! i thought if your not running that high of a psi you fuel management system should be fine! but i guess not!

Crymson

In remote turbo applications, STS turbo systems argue that an intercooler isn't required since the turbo isn't subject to engine bay heat and the length of piping leading to the engine cools the charge as well. As for fuel management start with a wideband O2 sensor, a boost gauge, and an adjustable wastegate/boost controller, and get to work on the basic setup. Once you have everything in place, you can gradually ramp up the boost and monitor A/F ratios and see how much you can get away with, before the addition of fuel management and additional injectors. Keep in mind the folks over at Full Boogie Racing claim that 7 psi on stock management is safe. If you are unfamiliar with them refer to this thread https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/89-95-4x4-3vze-turbo-kit-80271/ .

^VooDoo^

You should be able to mount a remote turbo 90-95 4runner/Tacoma on the frame under the drivers seat, Run both airpipes between the stering rod and the the fender (Fender beating will be needed), You may even be able to use the stock airbox if you adapter it right.
Oil feed and the engine psi, Use a restricter to the turbo from the oil feed, The turbo being so far from the main heat doesnt need the full flow for cooling, Its mainly there just to lube the barrings.
With it mounted there and prtectionplate it should be safe offraoding.

YOu can get more needed fuel if you put on a varible fuelPressureRegulator, 1 lb can make a big difference and the injectors can handle 10lbs more easly which makes AF management easyer, But watch your max avalable just incase you go beyond what the pump can deliver. (Fuel pressure gauge)

dcg9381

I believe a remote turbo will require some sort of a pump for oil return... Figure out what STS is using.

A stock ECU will handle boost under some conditions.. Although the limitations of the stock ECU are not well documented. A wideband would be required, so you know what you're getting yourself into. Might ping the guy I referenced in terms of the tuning for his system - he can tell you how well it would work with the stock ECU alone.

I can tell you that on a 22RE with mild boost (6psi), an engine mounted turbo, an intercooler is a waste of time. Intake temps don't exceed 200 degrees.

Full Boogie

Just don't try to market a kit with an oil pump for return on a turbo, STS has it patented! I personally think STS kits are a waste of money. The idea is nice for the installer......and that's about it. I have talked to many guys that have their kits, then the car is in my shop for a "regular" turbo set-up using the parts and pieces from the STS kit. Turbo lag is rediculous with the turbo sitting under the trunk, and it's not hard to relize why, by the time your exhaust has reached the back of your car the initial velocity has slowed by half and you lose heat....by a few hundred degree's. Now STS claims that your engine and turbo last longer because the heat is out of the engine compartment but the fact of the matter is the heat is doing almost half the spooling, it keeps the exhaust speed up. Case in point, a guy had a Camaro with a built LT-1 engine and an STS kit sporting a 67mm turbo, I had built basically the same car, a Trans Am with a LT-1, but I used a large frame 88mm turbo, the STS Camaro guy said that 88mm turbo would never spool and his spooled quick and blah ba blah, well the dyno told a different story. The STS car running a smaller turbo making 8 PSI had full boost at 4200 RPM, our 88mm equipped car made full boost 15 PSI by 3400 RPM. As with any car you would like boost as soon as possible, but those LT-1's it was especially needed as the factory redline is 5600 RPM.

Anyway, thanks for reading, my knowledge inspired talking is over now.


Later

shoes138

so i would need to have the turbo as close as i can get cuz i was thinking i could go headers with a the turbo but i heard that would be bad! and also what kind of turbo would i get i no one of the guys told me he used .63 a/r on the exhaust side! i mine i like my turbo to kick in right where the torque curve runs out i really dont no what rpm that is! and also where would i find a wideband o2 sensor? and would that even pass smog?? i guess the thing that really gets me is the whole fuel management system if the ecu would able to handle it alot! sry for asking stupid questions!

Full Boogie

It's really not a matter of how close the turbo is, it just has to be above the oil level, a turbo's oil drain is just an act of gravity. A .63 and a T31 76 trim(aka stage 3) turbine would work well and should spool very quick. You don't want the turbo to kick in once the torque has started to fall off, a turbo won't, for lack of a better word, extend your torque curve just make more torque throughout. And you can get a WB O2 sensor here!! http://www.fullboogie.net/1090577.html

If it's tuned right you can pass smog, but that would mean a ECU might need to figured into your project.

Later

Bumpin' Yota

which is easily rectified by the current production HG's and a new set of headbolts, or enginebuilder's grade 10.9 headbolts.