Why are people saying they are careful in snow and ice with rear locker? Have drove my Jeep for year with rear or front or both engaged. Ice too. Just like a car with a pose if it spins then it might slide a little. But the reason we put in lockers or limited slips is to keep the tires from spinning. I have only drove for 35 year on ice and snow but have never had a problem and the wife will only drive the Jeep if the weathers bad. Besides how many cars do we see at stop signs and lights spinning one tire trying to move from a dead stop. Two or four tires pulling or topping greatly increases the powered contact patch to me. Move 4000 lbs car from dead stop with one tire or the same weight of car with two or four tires seems easy for me to understand.

 

It was an early 3rd gen 4Runner option, so became available in '96. As I understand it, they dropped it when they also dropped the 5-speed manual. 2001 sounds about right. Basically, when Toyota remarketed the 4Runner from a capable trail vehicle to a true suburban mall-crawler.

 

There's no doubt a locked axle will pull better than an open diff on snow/ice, although not as much as you might think, since traction is generally very nearly the same for both wheels (unless one wheel is on ice and the other on dry pavement). With an open diff, just because one wheel is stopped doesn't mean it's not applying motive force to the car. It's providing exactly the same forward push as the spinning tire, because the torque to the two wheels is identical.

The big problem for the unwary with locked axles is that both wheels break loose and start spinning at the same time. Once that happens, you've lost all lateral control on that axle, and unless you get off the gas immediately and let the wheels catch again, you're going to spin and/or go in a different direction than you were expecting. With an open diff, usually only one wheel breaks loose, giving you a warning you're pushing it too hard, but the other wheel still provides lateral control while you recover.

A rear locker isn't quite as tricky as front one, because the front end has to steer, which by definition implies lateral forces on the wheels. If you break both front wheels loose in a turn, the vehicle will simply plow straight ahead, which is likely not what you wanted. Also, recovering from a front end skid and regaining control is much less natural than from a rear-end one.

With proper understanding, experience, and caution, a front locker can be driven safely on slick roads. I do it regularly. But, it's not the best configuration for those conditions. I chose to install the Aussie in the front because it meets my needs superbly for offroad, and I have other alternatives for hard-core winter driving.

 

If you have manual locking hubs, can't you just unlock one of the hubs when driving on snow or ice with a front locker and allevate some of the unwanted behavior while still getting the benefit of of one front wheel driving??

 

Yes, I do this all the time while rock crawling.

 

You can, and I've done that, but you'll be amazed at how much the steering pulls to one side during acceleration. The contact patch of the tire is several inches outboard of the steering knuckles, so a single pulling tire puts quite a bit of leverage on the steering system. With both wheels pulling, especially with an open diff, the forces are equal and balance each other out.

So yes, it works, but it still drives a little funny.

When I installed my manual hubs and Aussie locker, I left the ADD (automatic differential disconnect) intact and put a manual switch on the dash to control it. That way I can disconnect the driver's side axle on the fly for making tight turns offroad, even in 4LO. It also means that, when I'm driving in 2WD with the hubs locked (like from one trail, or one icy patch, to another), the ADD disconnects and allows the front wheels to turn independently regardless of what the locker is trying to do.

 

I agree. I love my detroit rear, but do somtimes wish I could turn it off like an ARB or e-locker. They take some serious getting used to but I have never regretted putting it in. The rear can come around on you a lot more quickly in slick conditions if you aren't careful/used to the locker, but, that also means you can turn some sweet doughnuts if the mood strikes you!
I plan on a true-trac for the front when I next service the axle and am pretty excited to have all 4 churning when it gets REALLY deep.

 

Hey thanks guys! This is full of info. I'm considering locking to front with a lunchbox now X)

 

Maybe off topic. But when I had my outback it would alway fish tail in the snow really bad. Kinda was a pain. But fun at the same time. But my question is why did it do this.
With manual hubs is it worth it to put them in vs the automatic I have now. My truck is kinda of a street queen. But hardly drive it any ways. Soon next year I want to go trail riding. I would like a locker in the back. But should I switch to manual hubs. Are manual hubs stronger. What is the advantage of manual hubs.

 

Ahh, automatic hubs. Let me try to debunk some misconceptions that always come up when auto hubs are discussed.
1) Auto hubs don't work when backing up -- Yes, they do. They use a clever camming action that drives the locking collar into engagement regardless of which way the axles are turning. There is a dead spot between forward and reverse when they may come unlocked if they are not loaded, but they will then relock as you continue to go the opposite direction.
2) Auto hubs are weaker than manual hubs -- Not really, once locked in. Auto hubs use the same locking mechanism (sliding splined collar that connects the drive axle to the wheel hub) as manual hubs. The only difference is the mechanism to move the collar. (see below though, in terms of rapid forward/reverse changes, for a caveat to this.)
3) If I get stuck in 2WD and can't move, the hubs will never lock in since it takes forward motion to lock in the hubs. -- Again, not true. The mechanism that moves the collar into lock relies on the rotation of the CV drive axle, not the rotation of the wheel. So, as soon as you engage 4WD and the drive axles start turning (in either direction), the hubs will slide into lock and then your front wheels will start turning.

So, what's the downside of auto hubs, and why don't people like them all that much.
1) They are more complex. That clever mechanism I mentioned has extra springs, cams, and a sprague clutch to activate the hubs, all stuff that the manual hubs don't have, and all extra stuff to fail.
2) They do have the "feature", as you are going from forward to reverse, of possibly unlocking for a short time during the transition. If 4WD is engaged, they will relock as you continue in the opposite direction. However, if you are aggressively shifting back and forth from forward to reverse to try to rock a vehicle free, the rapid direction changes can result in the collar only having time to partially re-lock before full torque is applied. This can result in stripping or breakage of the splines, and is probably the primary reason for the reputation of auto hubs being weaker.

Bottom line; If you keep your auto hubs maintained and lubed, and are easy on them as you shift into 4WD and from forward to reverse, they'll work fine for you. Manual hubs are more forgiving of poor maintenance and abuse, however.

 

RJR, you mentioned maintenance for the hubs.. on automatic hubs, where can I find proper maintenance info? I looked through the forum and fsm quickly but didn't see anything.. I figure it should be in the owners manual?

 

Thanks for the info. I might just buy Manual hubs has back up. Any year will work? I have a 93 v6 5 speed

 

It won't be in the owner's manual, any more than you'd find information about repacking the front wheel bearings in the owner's manual. The FSM should have a section on it, if you get the right version.

If you jack up the front end with the transfer case in 2WD, you can rotate the front drive shaft by hand and feel/hear them click in. Then you can rotate the front wheels the opposite direction and feel them release again. If they work smoothly, I wouldn't dive into them unless you want to get into the wheel bearings or something anyway.

I haven't seen a rebuild article on them in forum (just manual hubs) but there's bound to be something out there on the web. People tend not to rebuild them, though, but just change them out to manual when they don't work anymore.

 

So is clicking bad or good?

 

Slightl clicking while going in and out of lock (forward to reverse, for example) is generally OK. Continous clicking while locked up in one direction or the other probably isn't good. Either it's not locking fully or it's running dry on lubrication, or both.

You can find out a lot about how well they're working by jacking up the front and doing the tests I mentioned above. If one hub is failing to lock you'll know it right away.

 

ok i will have to cheack that out tommorw and find out. Then for the manual hub swap is there any year i need to look for or any thing? i seen a video on it seems kinda easy.

 

New question same topic: I live in Houston, Texas (I'll spare you the "way to proud of Texas" rant but only cuz I want replies). It doesn't snow here but it does rain--a lot by my stanards growing up in San Antonio. I never wheel. The reason for the runner is that I love old beater trucks and 4X4 does come in handy chasing the reds at the coast. Would the supra lsd swap be worth the effort on wet roads and deep soft sand? Oh yeah, 88 22re 4runner, clean and neat, almost original... tube bumpers, aftermarket wheels and very slightly over sized tires came with it 248k.

 

lunchbox ftont welded rear, offroad. open open or open / select rear, onroad. really depends on your needs and the purpose your using it for. we all want air lockers but nobody wants to spend the money to get the best of both worlds. any thing in between is a compromise.

 

A lot of people are confusing truly automatic hubs with a truck that has drive flanges and ADD (automatic disconnecting differential).
That's where you guys are A getting misinformation and B asking/ answering the questions wrong.
Not trying to single you out, RJR, but I'm sure some people in here who are saying they have auto hubs instead actually have drive flanges and ADD.

EDIT, and for the record, the Elocker rear was debuted in the 95.5 Tacoma's. It was also an option on 96-00 4Runners. In 98 when they came out with the TRD model Tacoma's it was standard for TRD's. It is still available as an option even in the 2014 Tacoma's.


Here is a link so that people can see the difference between AUTO hubs and ADD drive flanges.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/

 

I'm up in Montreal. Truck is mostly back-up to my daily,a project plus an emergency vehicle to get to my work 50 km's away in snow storms.
'95 extra-cab, right now all open 4.10 but going to 4.88 which are lined up at my mechanics garage ( Mr. Toy ) My '86 IFS ( RIP ) had a true-trac in front and was a joy to drive on snowy roads. I will install another one on the '95 before next winter for sure. So much more confidence inspiring to drive.

The rear was / is open on both trucks, planning on a selectable for that
( e-locker or ARB )